Quebec Independence Movement

Most of you have probably heard about Quebec nationalism at some point in your life, even if you aren't Canadian. This is the first thread of a collection of threads I will post at some point in the future regarding separatist movements around the world. So, I have spent quite some time researching the Quebec independence movement, as well as other movements. Canada has had several referendums asking the people if they think Quebec should become independent, and every time the majority of the people have said no. Personally I am against the independence movement, since the facts simply don't support Quebec's movement, and they wouldn't be self-sufficient. I do however recognize that the culture of Quebec is different from that of the rest of Canada.


Arguments for Independence
* In Quebec the official language is French, whereas the rest of Canada speaks English
* The goals and policies of the rest of Canada do not necessarily always align with those of Quebec
* Quebec's French culture is dying and arguably without independence or autonomy, it will eventually become like the rest of Canada
* Many separatists in Quebec feel as though the Canadian government didn't live up to it's promise for a new constitution in 1970
* Some websites recognize Quebec's distinct cultural differences from Canada, such as how Yahoo! has both Canadian and Quebecker Yahoo! Answers websites

Arguments Against Independence
* Quebec already maintains a degree of autonomy as a province of Canada
* The French language is dying out in Quebec and being replaced with English
* The withdrawal of Quebec from Canada could significantly hinder Canada's political, economic, and military strength
* The majority of the population of Quebec don't support independence or autonomy
* Terrorism committed by pro-independence guerrilla factions drives people away from supporting Quebec sovereignty
* If Quebec became independent, it would create a barrier in the middle of Canada, separating Eastern Canada and Western Canada
* It is questionable whether or not Quebec could be economically self-sufficient without the aid of Canada
* Quebec has no pre-existing constitution or framework for government
* Quebec is made up of many different ethnic groups, and an independent French-speaking Quebec could easily abuse minorities
* Historically speaking, the former French government of Quebec often ignored, suppressed, and mistreated the aboriginal population
* Many of the leaders of the separatist movement are discriminatory against the aboriginal population, including the former leader of Quebec, Robert Bourassa
* Many aboriginal tribes in Canada have expressed concerns regarding Quebec sovereignty, and some have even threatened to leave the confederacy
* The ideas on how an independent Quebec should be governed are very different, with many different parties and organizations, each with different ideological idea on what the future of Quebec should be. Many of the groups are far-left communist groups, while others are center-right and far right..


General Information
Proposed State: Quebec
Proposed Capital: Quebec City
Today Part of: Canada (Quebec)
Government: various
Population: 7,970,672 (5.63 /km2 density)
Land: 1,365,128 km2 land + 176,928 km2 water
GDP: C$303,747 billion (C$37,278 per capita)
Language: French
Culture: Canadian, French
Religion: Catholic
Denonym: Québécois, Quebecers/Quebeckers

Political Parties
Parti Québécois
Bloc Québécois
Action démocratique du Québec
Québec solidaire
Parti république du Québec (defunct)
Parti républicain du Québec (defunct)
Parti nationaliste du Québec (defunct)
Ralliement national (defunct)
Mouvement Souveraineté-Association (defunct)
Parti indépendantiste (defunct)
Parti indépendantiste of 1985 (defunct)
Parti canadien (defunct)
Parti canadien of 1942 (defunct)

Paramilitary Organizations
Mouvement de libération nationale du Québec
Société des Fils de la Liberté (defunct)
Front de libération du Québec (defunct)
Frères chasseurs (defunct)

Other Organizations
Les Intellectuels pour la souveraineté
Réseau de Résistance du Québécois
Mouvement national des Québécoises et des Québécois
Saint-Jean-Baptiste Society
Alliance laurentienne (defunct)


Links
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...


Flag


Coat of Arms


Map

reply to post by samusaran253


Very well done. I have often thought about why Quebec would want to secede. The Arguments against definitly outweigh those for. There is a similiar problem for the US in Peurto Rico.

As a Canadian, the entire debate is getting kinda old. Like a lot of Canadians, I wish they would shut up or just leave. Quebec is a cry-baby province that thinks they are so hard done by. In fact, they have more autonomy and freedom that almost any other linguistic group in the world. In addition the get billions of dollars given to them through equalization payments from the rest of Canada.

The thanks we get, is them voting in separatist parties that's sole goal is to leave the country. Their politicians are corrupt, they are a bunch of socialist, and they live off of the rest of Canada with hand outs to make their socialism possible.

Their media, however, lies to the french public and tells them that "they" are sending money to Canada--not the other way around--which is fact.

Reply to post by Ultraman2011

Is "socialist" a boogeyman term or is there ACTUAL socialism in Quebec?

I could care less if they separated. I don't live far from the border with Quebec. The people there are alright except for the buttholes that try to bargain at lawn sales or disobey the traffic laws when they come across the border to where I am.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

In my opinion Quebec should be "independent", and I believe
one day it will be, it's just common sense, Quebec is culturally very
different from the rest of Canada.

With brilliant politicians like Amir Khadir,
I say there is hope.

"Vive le Quebec libre !"

Originally posted by samusaran253



Arguments for Independence
* In Quebec the official language is French, whereas the rest of Canada speaks English

Well I don't know what my wife is speaking then. I do believe that New Brunswick is officially bilingual and about 40% of us are french. Also why bother with this nonsense since I believe Quebec does not want to separate, as they have shown, by pretty much annihilating the Bloc Quebecois in the last election, not that long ago. I don't think the N.D.P. has any plans to bring up separation so I think your point is moot.

Theres alot of ignorance somewhere in Canada

Anyway, the OP isnt very up to date, theres no will to separate down here.
The political setup is not suggesting any referendum till a while, decades.
Anyway ppl realise they are better off united as separated.
And since quebec is inhabited, just like the rest of america, with MSM spoon fed zombies.
Theres no worry for the Montreal Canadiens having to change their name.

Originally posted by The Sword
Reply to post by Ultraman2011

 

Is "socialist" a boogeyman term or is there ACTUAL socialism in Quebec?

Well, they have a pretty awesome province-wide child care plan. I think residents pay a flat rate of about $8 a day.

Originally posted by samusaran253



Arguments for Independence
* In Quebec the official language is French, whereas the rest of Canada speaks English
* The goals and policies of the rest of Canada do not necessarily always align with those of Quebec
* Quebec's French culture is dying and arguably without independence or autonomy, it will eventually become like the rest of Canada
* Many separatists in Quebec feel as though the Canadian government didn't live up to it's promise for a new constitution in 1970
* Some websites recognize Quebec's distinct cultural differences from Canada, such as how Yahoo! has both Canadian and Quebecker Yahoo! Answers websites

And there-in lies the problem Those are all trivial, meaningless distinctions (as well as some being inaccurate-Canada is a dual-language country and everything across all of canada is done in both Quebecois and English.)

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Sorry Canada isn't a dual language country. Only Quebec and New Brunswick has everything in both languages.

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Sorry Canada isn't a dual language country. Only Quebec and New Brunswick has everything in both languages.

wrong:

The Official languages Act is a law adopted by the Parliament of Canada in 1969 and substantially amended in 1988. The law gives English and French equal status in the government of Canada.[1] This makes them "official" languages, having preferred status in law over all other languages. Although the Official Languages Act is not the only piece of federal language law, it is the keystone legislation of Official Bilingualism in Canada.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Yeah they do, the funny thing is, it's paid for from the rest of Canada via transfer payments. The other question is, it better for kids to be raised by the state or by their parents? The province of Quebec has put parents in a position where economically it makes sense to go to work and leave you kids at daycare. It would probably make more sense to give tax breaks to couples raising kids, so they could afford to have one parent stay at home and raise their own children.

The Quebec Independence movement pretty much died at the same time as the Bloc Quebecois as an official Federal party in last month's Canadian election.

With no Canadian Federal party representing Quebec seperatists, there won't be a vote any time soon.

Quebec want independance, so long as it comes with full Canadian military and economic support. There is absolutely no way that Quebec can survive as an independant nation.

The first time there is a major disaster in Quebec, an independant Quebec Government will go running to Canada for assistance, expecting that Canada will be obligated to provide it, which they won't be.

An independant Quebec would have to find solace in the French Government, several thousand miles away.

Personally, as a Canadian, I feel very strongly that Canada should stick together as one nation.

reply to post by Ultraman2011


Be that as it may, I was merely providing it as an example of a 'socialist' policy that a previous poster had asked about.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Sorry Canada isn't a dual language country. Only Quebec and New Brunswick has everything in both languages.

wrong:

The Official languages Act is a law adopted by the Parliament of Canada in 1969 and substantially amended in 1988. The law gives English and French equal status in the government of Canada.[1] This makes them "official" languages, having preferred status in law over all other languages. Although the Official Languages Act is not the only piece of federal language law, it is the keystone legislation of Official Bilingualism in Canada.

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 2-6-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)

Try and find a french stop sign in any Province other than Quebec and New Brunswick. That wiki quote just says the Gov't recognizes two languages for Gov't communication. You have the right to be served in French or English.

Good points. They live in a fantasy world. They can separate, but somehow get all the benefits of being Canadian. I don't think so. If you leave, it's like a divorce. You can take your share of the debt, and you are on your own. They are ruled by emotion and patriotism, not logic.

Clearly, their politicians have not spelled things out for them.

reply to post by samusaran253


Since I'm from Quebec and I live there, I had to reply.

* The French language is dying out in Quebec and being replaced with English

Not true. Only in certain parts of Montreal.

* The withdrawal of Quebec from Canada could significantly hinder Canada's political, economic, and military strength

And?

* The majority of the population of Quebec don't support independence or autonomy

Oh but they will once the North American Union is made public. 6 million french speaking people is already a big minority in Canada... can you imagine 6 million french speaking people in a 320 million english speaking + 100+ million spanish speaking union will do?

* Terrorism committed by pro-independence guerrilla factions drives people away from supporting Quebec sovereignty

Yeah terrorism. Mwahahaha. The FLQ is a joke. They have no support. I've read their manifesto. There's good things in there. But the ``terrorism`` aspect of it is not good. Wouldn't surprise me if it was done by people hired by the Canadian government... agent provocateur/false-flag... those existed before 9/11...

* If Quebec became independent, it would create a barrier in the middle of Canada, separating Eastern Canada and Western Canada

And?

* It is questionable whether or not Quebec could be economically self-sufficient without the aid of Canada

Well certainly not with the government and policies we have now.

* Quebec has no pre-existing constitution or framework for government

You're kidding right? We already have a full functioning government. At all levels. We could use the Canadian constitution as a basis to make our own... which I would support... I would like a US-type bill of rights for Quebec... it would be awesome.

* Quebec is made up of many different ethnic groups, and an independent French-speaking Quebec could easily abuse minorities

Retarded argument. Quebec is not different as any other country... Quebecers are not abusing minorities...Quebecers are even bending backwards for minorities. I doubt this will ever change.

* Historically speaking, the former French government of Quebec often ignored, suppressed, and mistreated the aboriginal population

Like any north american government.

* Many of the leaders of the separatist movement are discriminatory against the aboriginal population, including the former leader of Quebec, Robert Bourassa

Things change. Such behavior today wouldn't pass.

* Many aboriginal tribes in Canada have expressed concerns regarding Quebec sovereignty, and some have even threatened to leave the confederacy

Good for them.

Quebec won't separate, not for now at least. We need to fix a LOT OF THINGS before then. And hopefully if/when we leave, we gut everything that refers to the British monarchy in the new constitution/documents.

reply to post by pigwithoutawig

Well it should be bilingual EVERYWHERE. Canada was founded as a bilingual country.

And the more I read about Canadian history, the more I see how British monarchy boot lickers heavily influenced a lot of things... IMO they should have been shot as traitors... and a lot of the population were the cowards/slaves minded sheeple who fled the US revolution because they loved their King too much... they should have been shot too. Without British monarchy boot licking in Canada, we might have been a better country today.

Maybe it wasn't about a small separation but a larger union.... NAFTA then, SPP now, NAU coming soon???

"Sometimes you get more than you wish for. Quebec Sovereignists and Canadian
Federalists alike have wished that NAFTA-driven economic and political cross-currents
will move events in their direction. Like little Oliver's plea to the Beadle, like Samuel
Gompers' one-word motto, everyone in Canada wants More, and they have been getting it
from NAFTA and the American connection. Former Quebec Premier Parizeau quite
likely hoped free trade's North-South market opportunities would stress and strain the
Canadian confederation while providing new, politically safe markets for Quebec
exports. Former Prime Minister Mulroney probably anticipated -- correctly so far -- that
Quebec's NAFTA dividend, in the eyes of the average Quebecer at least, would be too
great to be spent totally on expensive sovereignty."

people.mcgill.ca...

At the provincial level, New Brunswick is the only official bilingual province and only Quebec is officially unilingual (French only). In practice, all provinces, including Quebec, offer some bilingual services and some education in both official languages up to the high school level. English and French are official languages in all three territories (because they are federally administered). In addition, Inuktitut is also an official language in Nunavut, and nine aboriginal languages have official status in the Northwest Territories. en.wikipedia.org... Just a little more info.

Originally posted by pigwithoutawig
Try and find a french stop sign in any Province other than Quebec and New Brunswick. That wiki quote just says the Gov't recognizes two languages for Gov't communication. You have the right to be served in French or English.

Sure. The Vancouver airport signage comes to mind. Ever been there? Not to mention ALL packaged goods sold in Canada are required by law to be in both quebecois and english. Politicians peak both languages, and the national anthem was sung in both languages last night.
Also, have you ever been to BC or Alberta? I've seen "arete' signs in both provinces, although not widespread. I believe on Crown Land, actually.

But you are right that my initial claim of "everything across all of canada is done in both Quebecois and English." was not accurate. Street signage in quebec and new brunswick are in both. But as someone who spends much of his time in BC, I can say that 'french' is very prevalent.

vancouverlimoairport.ca...