Meeting an ATS Friend - Crossing the border from Canada to the USA - I've never been so hassled

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
reply to post by syrinx high priest

 

I gave the name - but I'm not posting it on ATS for privacy reasons,

They had all the information they needed - They didnt like that I was in a borrowed car, from a far away province, meeting someone from the internet, and just coming for a few hours.

They were over the top - Welcome to the police state.

I would have danced - but I didnt want to get body slammed.

-GM

Agreed, although I think they were right in their suspicion because of the way you worded your conversation. Especially the part about saying you talk to other clients that you haven't met or something along those lines, it just sounded suspicious to me actually. Now they were totally wrong in the way they handled it. They most likely had huge egos and took advantage of the suspicion they had. They could of asked you to step out and explain that your story was a bit suspicious and they should of said that they just wanted to make sure because it is an unusual story.

I was suspected of having a stolen bike a few years ago(apparently some lady thought it was her sons, it was the same one as mine) and I was just riding down the street. Out of nowhere 3 cop cruisers came and circled me. I was immediately in shock because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong and was confused why they were coming at me as though I had just robbed a bank or something. I stopped, got off the bike and there was two OPP officers who had their bulletproof vests on and their guns drawn. Like for real hear I was 17 years old thinking this cop was going to shoot me. They were D*icks even after they found out it was my bike.

reply to post by Elbereth


F. That. Is my simple reply. Where there are bodies, the vultures will come. And here there's plenty. Of course, this is assuming all this is true.

Do people just like dying in this world? I mean c'mon you go visit someone in a foreign country that you've never met before? I just hope you're not female that would make things way worse.

jeebus christ almighty! paranoia at it's finest!!!
I knew that you were going to meet each other because Truth told me some days ago, but since i have been sick i didn't knew what happened later!
things like this makes me realize my country isn't that bad as i often think. Last time i went to Argentina, we just said to the policemen: we're going on a college trip (it was a bus full of students). They didn't even sent the doggies to our bus, just checked our identity credentials for the record and... go ahead! enjoy Argentina!. Back trip was the same, they even let us play with the doggies! (argentinian policemen were even more relaxed than chilean ones)... And when we went to Brazil, we just needed to fill a form where we compromised ourselves not to carry any vegetable or animal product or sub-product back to Chile (SAG people is most nasty because our country's exportations are mainly copper and fruits, and we're one of the few countries that are fruitfly free in the continent). Again, no passport, no anything. Just check-in with our identity credential for the record and sign that form.... and we entered a bag of dryed guarana anyway because nobody checked our luggage!

I haven't traveled to Peru yet, i know that they're most hostile on that border because of drug traffic and illegal immigrants, but still, nothing that harsh as those people... you two should come to visit me, it's a must! and you'll be threated well here because we love "gringos"! (we like to pass as foreigners to get better attention in certain bars, looking european and speaking english with your friends helps a lot! hahaha)


- Cags

reply to post by Gradius Maximus

Yes I do feel safer now. If thats what it takes to secure the borders from vague answers from entrants...so be it. Great. Hey. At least in the end we let you in....we coulda kept you from getting back OUT.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Elbereth

 

F. That. Is my simple reply. Where there are bodies, the vultures will come. And here there's plenty. Of course, this is assuming all this is true.

An administrative claim would have to be filed first and if the result of that process was unsatisfactory a suit could be filed under the Federal Tort Claims Act. There is no money in this case so good luck finding an attorney willing to waste his/her time on it. You would have to pony up a hefty retainer and then continue to pay and pay and pay. Just not worth it as the deck is stacked.

Fighting a war in the media parallel to the administrative claim would be a better approach, hoping they make a quick payout to make it go away. Finding just the right hook to interest the media, like if someone was pregnant and subject to unnecessary manhandling, or better yet if a miscarriage ensued, would be critical to this strategy.

I'm sorry to say this but if you expect to find justice in the American legal system you had better have very deep pockets.

Originally posted by Serizawa
Do people just like dying in this world? I mean c'mon you go visit someone in a foreign country that you've never met before? I just hope you're not female that would make things way worse.

Was that comment necessary, or did you not peruse the whole thread? Gradius and myself, both like minded individuals, have been speaking through ATS and Skype for almost a year now. Considering that we both know each other pretty well, there was no danger involved (and I think that being both strong, large guys, we would have been able to defend ourselves if one or the other turned out to be a nutter). For cripes' sake, some people get married to people over the internet without even seeing a face! It's happened before! I think that is far more dangerous than meeting a friend for a cheeseburger and a beer.

Stop being so paranoid, and start living a little.





Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by truthseeker1984


I'm sorry, Just know a lot of people who've had very bad experiences from meeting people they spoke to online. Especially women, So I guess it was just a natural instinct. After all it's a cold cold world out there, I would discourage people who are not able to defend themselves from doing the same, Best thing to do would be to meet in a very public place.

Two tough guys! Ok I got it now, You both seem very mature and intelligent.. Sorry once again.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Demoncreeper

 

Sounds like a perfect landmark case situation. If they sued, they'd win, simply put. It doesn't matter that the car wasn't damages. If someone came and disassembled your entire house, but nothing got broken, are you saying I couldn't sue that guy?

Dude, sue for what? Yeah, there is the American 4th amendment. But circumstances reveal that probable cause was utilized.
Trust me, there isn't much they can do. At borders entering into the United States, you are subject to all kinds of harassment, searches, scans etc. All in lieu of protecting the "homeland".

They've moved on, and are no longer willing to contribute anything to the American economy, except some well placed middle fingers.

Sadly, I've also seen a lot worse, in my years in law enforcement.

Originally posted by Serizawa
reply to post by truthseeker1984

 

I'm sorry, Just know a lot of people who've had very bad experiences from meeting people they spoke to online. Especially women, So I guess it was just a natural instinct. After all it's a cold cold world out there, I would discourage people who are not able to defend themselves from doing the same, Best thing to do would be to meet in a very public place.

Two tough guys! Ok I got it now, You both seem very mature and intelligent.

. Sorry once again.

edit on 3-6-2011 by Serizawa because: (no reason given)

No worries Seri.

Apologies on sounding confrontational from my end. My frustration with the general paranoia built up to a head. I didn't mean to dump it all out on you.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

reply to post by Kryties


And your signature says it all as well.

We will hang someone for killing one person in a robbery or that killed a child................but Bush Jr. lied about weapons of mass destruction and indirectly is responsible for millions of Iraqi children dying.

He lied............................and got away with mass murder


Wall Street and all the financial corporations have bilked millions out of money and caused many a suicides, family break ups and people becoming homeless..................but hey let's bail them out.

Yep justice is blind here in the good old USA.

reply to post by Elbereth


I'm not the one needing any justice. Also, the money is in the damages.

And the way the system is set up is that you are innocent into proven guilty. This is good. And fairness, quite frankly, is never fair under guilty until proven innocent. The system works because of that. Fairness comes in being able to prove your claim. No proof, no claim. Simple.

reply to post by Demoncreeper


Well, if there was probable cause, and like I said a long way back it certainly seemed there was, then it's a sad level of annoyance to live with. But hey, even with probably cause, if they bust into your house and scare your children and it's the wrong house, they get sued. Plane and simple. Damages.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Elbereth

 

The system works because of that. Fairness comes in being able to prove your claim.

If you think the system works then you don't know the system. It's like the difference between CSI on television and what really happens in crime labs. One is a fantasy that supports the illusion of justice for all; the other, real version is a broken down system which barely survives through expediency and corner cutting.

Forgive me for putting it like this, but your view of the legal system is naive and sounds almost mythological. It's a nice view and it should be the way you describe and I wish to Bog it was, but you can't make an is from an ought. The reality is much more biased, cynical, compromised, and dysfunctional.

People should run screaming from it unless they have no other viable option.

reply to post by Gorman91


The house bustin is a slightly different scenario. You aren't inciting a situation, by crossing borders, answering questions, etc.

Bustin into the wrong house is just plain stupid. And yes, should warrant some lawsuits.

reply to post by Elbereth


I've not honestly seen it. Now I know the east coast is usually better, but I just don't see many signs of it. With a population of 300 million, and a big drug problem, I can imagine there being a lot of prisoners and a lot of problems. Fact is this though. Innocent until proven guilty, and people always love to make their names on proving someone innocent or discovering their guilt. So honestly, it's not the system's fault, it's the people. And that I can believe, because the generation that's running things right now is by far the worse one in US history.


reply to post by Demoncreeper


-ahem, crossing the border shouldn't be a situation worth inciting.

reply to post by Gorman91


A small example of what I am talking about: After the 1992 Landers earthquake, an elderly high desert gadfly and rabble-rouser named Florence Billings had an unfortunate encounter with the Secret Service. You see, Marilyn Quayle paid a courtesy call to the Town of Yucca Valley after the big quake, and a small band of citizens greeted her to protest Bush the Greater’s policies. Florence carried a snarky sign that read “If you want to see a real disaster, go to Washington DC.” Well, she was abruptly and unceremoniously thrown to the ground by the SS, hog-tied, and thrown into the back of a squad car. It was later claimed the stick that supported her sign was a mortal threat to the VP’s wife.

Open and shut case of excessive force and violation of Florence Billing’s First Amendment rights, wouldn’t you say? No need to throw white-haired little old ladies to the ground for unthreateningly carrying a sign. That’s not how we roll in the land of the free, right? Wrong! Local lawyers wouldn’t touch it. Regional media wouldn’t touch it. The ACLU wouldn’t touch it.

I called the SS directly to question the necessity of making senior citizens eat dirt and all they were interested in was who I was, and where I got off.

If you are going after a government entity for redress, there better be the potential for BIG BUCKS, or all you will get from a lawyer if you are lucky is a little sympathy for your plight. There just aren’t enough damages in the OP's border crossing incident to interest any but the most altruistic attorney, potential precedence or not.

Innocent before proven guilty is a sham, a pleasant fantasy. If you don’t have the resources to defend yourself, an unbelievably overworked public defender will be assigned to your case, and you will plea out, whether you are guilty or innocent. Every day, thousands of innocent people plea out. If you don’t, the system will squash you like a bug.

Things are much further gone than people apparently realize. This country has devolved into a Land of Lies, where the constant propagandistic propping up of the mythological America serves as the perfect diversion and smokescreen for the massive, systemic, and accelerating un-free fall into corporate authoritarianism.

Keep smiling.

reply to post by Elbereth


You are still accepting the plea. You're choice. And if you don't like your attorney, read some stuff for 2 weeks and defend yourself. Fact remains here that it's not the system's fault. It's people's own laziness.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Elbereth

 

You are still accepting the plea. You're choice. And if you don't like your attorney, read some stuff for 2 weeks and defend yourself. Fact remains here that it's not the system's fault. It's people's own laziness.

Yes, it's your choice to end up with an inadequate defense at trial and a longer sentence because you didn't play the game and plea out. The system honestly cares not one wit if you are guilty or innocent. It only cares if you are guilty of being sand in the gears, for which you will dearly pay.

reply to post by Elbereth


So be because you don't know the legal system of your own country, you shouldn't get punished?

I don't know, if we went with your way, people continue being lazy, clueless, ignorant of the law, and many other things. Maybe if the common citizen had to defend themselves and educate themselves of the law to defend themselves to the fullest extent, then these laws wouldn't exist in the first place because the average citizen wouldn't vote for the loser who makes them.

It's all the gears, yes. It's your choice to be sand though. Or to educate yourself, rise above, and become a gear.

Being a citizen isn't easy. It's part of the responsibility of being an adult. If you're not willing to educate yourself of your own country, then maybe you deserve what you get.