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Men and Child support. What is the answer?

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posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by one4all
Jail for the men who choose to abandon their own children,and an extra five years for having another child while you are in arrears for the first--ooops I guess you cant have more in jail!! ---this takes care of the men who end up being single and not fiscally responsible for their own kids finding an already financially suffering woman and knocking her up when she is desperate.



Jail for women who choose to abort a man's baby. And an extra five years if she ever has a second abortion. This takes care of the women who don't know how to use birth control when they can't afford to have a child, who thought they were going to leech off some sucker until they found out he was already on SSI.


Equality. Thats what is missing in the Gender biased Judicial system. If a man can be subjugated to child support,even if he is an actual "sperm donor",abortion shouldn't be off limits either.Period.


Doesn't matter. Anyone who truly believes in gender equality can only come to the conclusion that both abortion and female birth control should be outlawed. Because they create an imbalance in the rights between men and women. Because even if a male is raped by a female, the male is still held responsible even if the rapist admits to the act of rape the courts won't do anything.

As for birth control, male birth control pill is a reality in other countries and the technology has been available in the West since the 80's. Since males are being intentionally denied a male birth control pill, in the interest's of gender equality the female birth control pill should be outlawed.

As per compulsory Child Support and Alimony, the 13th Amendment explicitly bar's all forms of slavery, indentured servitude and peonage. The current Child Support system is an example of "peonage", and at times slavery when the father(name 10 women in jail for back child support) is forced into prison working camps.

No justification can be made to defend such horrible abuses, and the fact that a "moral" justification is needed speaks volumes about the immorality of those who advocate it.




posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by korathin


No justification can be made to defend such horrible abuses, and the fact that a "moral" justification is needed speaks volumes about the immorality of those who advocate it.


I do agree with this statement. I dont believe in Childsupport. I believe in Taking care of children,without the courts,or big government interfering.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 

gee, why don't we just jail the people who are having sex outside of marriage till we can sterilize everyone...
then, with the help of science, we can chose the best dna to join together, even add a little, so the babies glow in the dark and are better seen for law enforcement, and we can inplant our creations into the best, most physically fit women to carry the nine months (she'll be paid for this service generously)....at age two, the child can go to one of the state run bording schools.......and.....
we can all be equal!!!!!

but, if birth control or abortion is outlawed, I am gonna start a very feminist campaign to encourage the women to just say NO....to sex, unless of course, they really want a baby...then they can say yes....even the married ladies!!! and well, I'd about be willing to bet that if enough women took this path, well, either the men would be screaming to give back the birth control and abortion, or would be screaming for the gov't to pass laws making the man the king of his castle again!!

ya know, there's a more easily obtained way.....
how about if we try to make being married and having kids a little more economically feasible and rewarding
instead of rewarding the misfits in society?



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
but, if birth control or abortion is outlawed, I am gonna start a very feminist campaign to encourage the women to just say NO....to sex, unless of course, they really want a baby...then they can say yes....even the married ladies!!!


No to intercourse (?) plenty of other fun things to do... I don't think guys would be as mad as you think.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


At least we all know where you stand on child support......and thats exactly what I've been saying all along. Most of you don't like paying child support!

Fact is, if we left it on a wim that you non-custodial fathers would keep your word and pay reasonable child support until our children turn 18 we would'nt need the Family Courts and judicial system to collect.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by korathin
 


Although I don't doubt women are capable of rape......the cases are very rare and far between compared to the large numbers of males who commit rape.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by coldbluiceman
 


Good luck with that and guess what...you'll need a hell of alot to get custody of your kids than a joint tax return you allege your ex wife forged!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer2
 


I gave you a star for that!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


At least we all know where you stand on child support......and thats exactly what I've been saying all along. Most of you don't like paying child support!

Fact is, if we left it on a wim that you non-custodial fathers would keep your word and pay reasonable child support until our children turn 18 we would'nt need the Family Courts and judicial system to collect.


I don't believe in court sponsored gender biased child support. ABSOLUTELY right. Like Ive said a million times,women shouldn't get the right AUTOMATICALLY,when it comes to the custody of the child. Its Gender bias,PERIOD. Why should ANYONE,man or woman pay child support? Why cant parents do the right thing,and take care of their children? Because the majority of WOMEN know the courts are biased,and are willing to use it,to their discretion. THATS A FACT. Unfortunately, You have NO facts to base any of your opinions, on.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


The male contraception pill is soon to be released then we won't have any more cry babies trying to justify not having to pay child support!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


Because non-custodial fathers can't be trusted.....hence why we have the Family Court system.

You don't like paying child support.....don't have kids!



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Because non-custodial fathers can't be trusted.....hence why we have the Family Court system.





LINK PLEASE??????

Your opinion fails on SO many levels.

Heres to your lovely child support payment center,charging 12% interest. Hmmm,wonder who pockets that extra change?????? ITS NOT THE KIDS...............

Kevin Foy, of Sacramento, is a dad who owes $40,000 in child support back pay for two sons who live in Florida. He said his child support order was based on his salary from a well-paying job he had until 2001.

Foy, 57, said after he lost that job he tried but wasn’t able to get his payments lowered. He said for several years he didn’t have a steady job and started falling behind on his child support payments. His debt has increased by $14,000 since 2008.

“So it just keeps accumulating and as it accumulates, you just, you know, trying to do the right thing. ... Yeah, it’s my kids ... but I’ll never get that money, I’ll never be able to repay that kind of debt,” Foy said.

Foy was unemployed from 2008 to 2010. Already dealing with a struggling economy, his child support debt made his job search even more difficult.

“I was told that, in more than one case, because of child support being in arrears I was flushed from their system for pretty decent jobs,” Foy said.

Foy currently works in landscaping and earns $14 an hour. Half his paycheck goes to child support payments, leaving him about $200 a week.

In a quiet light rail parking lot in a Sacramento suburb, Foy patted the hood of his 1978 Chevy pickup with a light blue vintage stripe, which has been his home since October. He said he never thought child support payments would leave him homeless.

“Frustration is the daily occurrence,” Foy said. “And then trying to survive, it’s next to impossible to think past a daily and a weekly income.”

LINK

And you wonder why non custodials are having a hard time....Stop with your nonsense already. Its been proven that WOMEN cant pay their child support either. Its about the corrupt system,and gender bias. You know it,but wont admit it. Your stuck in your feminist world.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


I'm not the one going around saying I don't believe in child support.......thats the hole you dug my friend, not me.



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


I'm not the one going around saying I don't believe in child support.......thats the hole you dug my friend, not me.


I AM PROUD OF IT!!!!!

Why hide it?????? Why would I believe its a GOOD thing,to take MY money,and give it to a middleman,who cares nothing about my children. Why would I give a middleman ANY money to give to my EX,to take care of my kids,when I am clearly capable of doing it also? Makes NO sense?????



posted on Jun, 28 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


So go make a deal with your ex wife and have it made a LEGAL document; not all divorced couples see the inside of a Family Court because they are intelligent enough and wise enough to do whats in the best interests of their children and work together. Unfortunately, you don't fall in to that catagory!!! So what does that say about you? Hang on let me think.....an idiot?



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


So go make a deal with your ex wife and have it made a LEGAL document; not all divorced couples see the inside of a Family Court because they are intelligent enough and wise enough to do whats in the best interests of their children and work together. Unfortunately, you don't fall in to that catagory!!! So what does that say about you? Hang on let me think.....an idiot?


Lets see.....your calling ME an idiot?????????
Good to see your back to name calling..........


Sorry to burst your intellectual bubble,but the facts remain. Women get child custody,based on gender bias,80- 90% of the time.

Lets see if your OPINION backs the facts.................


According to the survey, 13.1 % of child support payers (child support payers) are custodial fathers, .6 % custodial mothers, 80.5 % noncustodial fathers, 1.2 % noncustodial mothers, and 4.6 % other.
9.5 % of child support payers are satisfied with the amount of time they spend with their children, 90.5 % are not satisfied.
82.0 % of child support payers have experienced access and visitation denial; 18.0 % have not.
Of the 82.0 % that have experienced access and visitation denial, in 17.7 % of cases, the court did something to enforce visitation; in 82.3 % of cases, the court did not do anything to enforce visitation.
Of those that spent time in court concerning visitation rights, 25.4 % spent under $1000; 24.1 % spent $1001- 5000; 27.7 % spent $5001-20,000; 7.9 % spent $20,001- 50,000; and 3.8 % spent $50,001- 100,000 on court and attorney fees; and in 11.3 % of cases there was no billing error.
In 41.2 % of states where children live, there are social service agencies that assist in resolving visitation problems; 20.5 % of states did not possess these agencies and 38.3 % of people responding were not sure whether or not these programs exist.
6.5 % of people surveyed received effective assistance in resolving these problems; 43.1 % did not receive effective assistance; 8.4% claimed that their state has no such program; 9.5 % have not had visitation problems; 32.4 % have not contacted agencies for help.
54.5 % of people surveyed have experienced billing error by the child support agency; 45.5 % have not.
Of those experiencing a billing error, 7.9 % have overpaid and 92.1 % have underpaid.
Of those experiencing a billing error, 45.1% spent under $1000; 31.4 % spent $1001- $5000; 17.9 % spent $5001- $20,000; 4.9 % spent $20,001- $50,000; and .7% spent $50,000-$100,000.
In 90.8 % of cases, the child support payer tried to get the child support agency to fix the error; in 9.2% of cases, s/he did not.
In those cases where the child support payer tried to get the child support agency to fix the error, the child support payer was successful 38.5 % of the time and unsuccessful 61.5 % of the time.
To fix billing errors, the child support agency took 1 week in 27.8 % of cases, 1 month in 21.0 % of cases, 1 year in 21.2 % of cases, 2 years in 3.4 % of cases, 3-5 years in 5.4 % of cases, and over 5 years in 21.2 % of cases.
Regarding a billing error, the number of calls made to a child support enforcement case worker was 1-5 calls in 44.0 % of cases, 6-10 in 23.3 % of cases, 11-20 in 10.9 % of cases, and over 20 calls in 21.8 % of cases.
In 29.7 % of cases, the case worker was courteous and responsive to the call; in 70.3% of cases, s/he was not.
Concerning errors of the child support agency, 20.7 % of errors were mathematical errors, 16.5 % were the child support agency's failure to record payments made by the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER, 4.1 % regarded the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER being charged for welfare reimbursement when the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER was not aware his/her child was on welfare, 1.7 % were failure to stop child support obligation when child reached the age of emancipation, 3.9 % were because the parent receiving child support incorrectly reported that the other parent owed money, 13.8 % of errors were the failure of the child support agency to update a child support order with a downward or upward modification or later court ruling, and 29.8 % of errors were for a reason other than those listed.
While paying the custodial parent directly, 22.9 % of child support payers have been billed by a child support agency for child support already paid (and can be proven paid) because the child was on welfare without the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER being notified; this is not a problem in 77.1 % of cases.
. If the above was a problem, the agency honored the receipts and presented the correct claim of the amount owed 33.8 % of the time; the agency did not do this 66.2 % of the time.
. Child support is paid directly to the custodial parent in 28.1 % of cases; it is not paid directly in 71.9 % of cases.
When child support is paid directly to the custodial parent, 32.4 % child support payers have been billed by the agency claiming they owe money to the child support agency; 67.6 % of child support payers have not been billed by the agency.
In 43.0 % of cases, the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER has been subjected to punitive measures as a result of a billing error; in 57.0 % of cases, s/he has not.
These punitive measures are as follows: lien on property (19.5 %), wage garnishment (26.7 %), loss of driver's license (1.5 %), income tax refund interception (15.9 %), negative credit report (6.7 %), seizure of bank accounts or other assets (3.1 %) and other (26.7 %).
22.4 % of child support payers feel the child support amount is reasonable; 77.6 % do not feel it is set at a reasonable amount.
47.1 % of child support payers have had problems getting credit or buying a home because of incorrect information on their credit report; 52.9 % have not had this problem.
Of the child support payers that have wage garnishments, 8.3 % are because they were behind in child support and the court ordered it, 39.1 % because wage garnishments are automatic in the child support payer's state, 24.1 % because the custodial parent requested it, 6.3 % because the custodial parent is/was on welfare, and 22.3 % because of other reasons.
22.0 % of child support payers pay by cash, 33.7 % by check, 5.2 % by money order, 50.7 % by garnishment, and 8.2 % by voluntary pay allotment.
9.4 % of child support payers have received notices and/or demands for payment from more than one state for the same child support claim; 90.6 % have not.
Reasons that child support payers are behind in payment are 9.7 % because the monthly amount is set too high, .6 % because of penalties and interest, 12.0 % because of loss of job, 4.6 % because of billing error, .6 % because of welfare reimbursement, 1.0 % because of illness, 2.9 % because of disability, 21.0 % because of other reasons, and this question is not applicable to 47.7 % of those surveyed.
9.0 % of child support payers have been jailed due to child support issues; 91.0 % have not.
Of those jailed due to child support issues, the person who posted bail was the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER in 8.0 % of cases, parents of CHILD SUPPORT PAYER in 17.3 % of cases, spouse in 14.7 % of cases, significant other in 1.3 % of cases, friend in 10.7 % of cases, and other in 48.0 % of cases.
Of those jailed due to child support issues, the person who finally paid the amount claimed as owed was the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER in 42.0 % of cases, parents of CHILD SUPPORT PAYER in 8.0 % of cases, spouse in 8.0 % of cases, significant other in 3.4 % of cases, friend in 3.4 % of cases, and other in 35.2 % of cases.
33.6 % of child support payers have been denied access to their children because they were behind in child support payments; 66.4 % have not.
20.4 % of child support payers have reduced contact with their children or abandoned their child/ parent contact altogether as a result of a conflict with the custodial parent over a child support billing error; 79.6 % have not.
4.8 % of child support payers are paying child support for a child who was proven by DNA testing to not be their child; 95.2 % are not.
60.1 % of child support payers have a second family that s/he is supporting; 39.9 % do not.
Of the child support payers with a second family, 61.0 % have suffered hardship due to a child support billing error; 39.0 % have not.
29.9 % of child support payers with a second family are also supporting a child from the new spouse who doesn't get child support from their ex; 70.1 % are not.
22.6 % of child support payers have had a tax refund intercepted as a result of a billing error when they were actually current in their child support; 77.4% have not.
Of the child support payers that have had their tax refund intercepted, 29.0 % got their money back while 71.0 % did not.
16.3 % of child support payers have filed for bankruptcy as a result of money being spent for child support billing errors, punitive child support collections, or other child support or custody related issues; 83.7 % have not.
When unable to resolve a child support billing error on their own, 24.4 % of child support payers could afford an attorney to represent them while 75.6 % could not afford an attorney.
When unable to afford an attorney, 10.0 % of child support payers were able to get free assistance while 90.0 % could not.
12.1 % of child support payers could find an attorney willing to sue the child support agency to recover civil damages as a result of grossly negligent child support billing error that the state agency knew or should have known was false; 87.9 % could not.
3.2 % of child support payers have filed criminal charges against a child support agency for civil rights violations, false certification, or mail fraud as a result of a grossly negligent child support billing error that the state agency knew or should have known was false; 96.8 % have not.
Of those who filed charges, in 18.4 % of cases, the U.S. Attorneys an/or Postal Inspectors took appropriate action to correct misconduct on the part of the child support agencies; in 44.8 % they did not, and in 36.8 % of cases, it is not known if appropriate action was taken.
The mean amount spent by the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER on attorney fees since the divorce is $12,016.21.
In 40.4 % of cases, someone has helped the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER pay attorney or court fees; in 59.4 % the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER has received no help and the question is not applicable in .2 % of cases.
If the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER has received assistance in paying fees, the mean amount was $6,308.56.
42.2% of Child support payers have received a notice from the child support agency stating that they are behind in their child support when in reality the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER was current in child support payments; 57.8 % of Child support payers have not received a notice with this claim.
In the cases where the CHILD SUPPORT PAYER did receive this type of notice, the mean amount of the child support billing error was $6,625.21.
3.7 % of child support payers feel that the performance of the child support agencies was very good, 4.4 % feel it was good, 19.3 % feel it was fair, 24.0 % feel it was poor, and 48.6 % feel it was very poor.
3.7 % of child support payers feel that the performance of the courts in dealing with custody and visitation issues was very good, 1.6 % feel it was good, 7.4 % feel it was fair, 19.5 % feel it was poor, and 69.6 % feel it was very poor.


LINK




NOPE,nothing you say as FACT,supports your opinion........







posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


I'm not going to read all that junk nor do I have the time to do so.

Read my last post.....


cut a deal with your ex wife, make it legal, and move on

now whats so damn hard about that?

because you don't have intellectual or communication skills to negotiate child support....my bet is you can't even find some middle ground to meet your ex wife half way; this is where you fail.

You lack even the basic communication skills; these kind of men could'nt even negotiate themselves out of a fish bowl !



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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Nope,I won!!!!!! I have all my children living with me. My intellectual prowess trumps your mindless rabble. You dont have time to LOOK at facts,that are right in your face. You are a TROLL,PERIOD. Maybe everyone should take the only advice you gave,thats sound,and full of FACT!!!!


Originally posted by bluemirage5

I'm not going to read all that(bluemirage5) junk nor do I have the time to do so.


ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS!!!!


edit on 29-6-2011 by sonnny1 because: Definition of JUNK!



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by CranialSponge
 


Not true if your child support order was after 1997. In Canada, you cannot claim child support as an expense, nor does the recipient have to declare it as income unless the arrangement predates 1997.



posted on Jun, 29 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
The male contraception pill is soon to be released then we won't have any more cry babies trying to justify not having to pay child support!


Irrelevent... as long as it's only a woman's unilateral choice that can create a child Men should not be forced to pay child support under threat of jail. The only cry babies are the one's screeching, "My Body, My Choice, Our Responsibility!"


edit on 29-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



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