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Men and Child support. What is the answer?

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posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
Unfortunately my friend, there are many fathers who have committed Domestic Violence against their ex wives and/or children and do not deserve access to their children.


The definition has become so broad and subjective at this point that you have probably committed "domestic violence" yourself and don't even realize it.

One problem is that when Men call the police to report domestic violence against them, THEY are the ones who ussually end up in jail for it, which skews the statistics.





edit on 17-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by TheLordVeack
 


The women ultimately have the final say.....so it would be in your best interests to keep a reasonable relationship with her and show some respect; keep that in mind while communicating with her, because if you fail those two things, you don't get far.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


There's nothing "broad" or subjective about Domestic Violence......

let me spell it out in plain English.......DV equates to physical ASSAULT

Domestic Abuse can mean physical, mental or economic abuse

Got it?

Know the difference!



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
The women ultimately have the final say.....so it would be in your best interests to keep a reasonable relationship with her and show some respect; keep that in mind while communicating with her, because if you fail those two things, you don't get far.


Sad but true, if a woman wants to keep you from your kids she'll most likely be able to.

Your only real hope is to kiss her azz no matter how unfairly she has treated you (even if she has abused you and the kids).



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5

There's nothing "broad" or subjective about Domestic Violence......

let me spell it out in plain English.......DV equates to physical ASSAULT

Domestic Abuse can mean physical, mental or economic abuse

Got it?

Know the difference!


"Domestic violence is defined as a pattern of coercive and controlling behaviors and tactics used by one person over another to gain power and control. This may include verbal abuse, financial abuse, emotional, sexual, and physical abuse. Domestic violence occurs in heterosexual, as well as same-sex partnerships, and crosses all ethnic, racial and socio-economic lines."

www.mass.gov... =Overview+of+Sexual+%26+Domestic+Violence&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&f=programs_fjj_DefinitionDomViol&csid=Eeops

In my own case my wife told me that she would lie and accuse me of abusing her and the kids, she promised I would never see them again if I ever filed for divorce. So I stayed in a miserable marraige for years. When I finally couldn't take it anymore and told her I wanted a divorce she did exactly what she said she would.

She was actually the abuser but that didn't matter a bit.

edit on 17-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-6-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by TheLordVeack
 


The women ultimately have the final say.....so it would be in your best interests to keep a reasonable relationship with her and show some respect; keep that in mind while communicating with her, because if you fail those two things, you don't get far.


Point taken my friend but in these times what you say is not really realistic is it? So the man should simply give in on every issue no matter how much harm they are doing to the child!? What if she's unreasonable? What if she has the child causing her next partner daddy? Is that reasonable? Should the man simply cave in and say nothing no matter what his ex does to try and hurt him?
It is only too obvious that women have the final say and most use that to best effect to emotionally hurt their ex partners without having to worry unduly about the law or court orders. And always keep in mind that any woman can turn on the crocodile tears and begin to throw empty accusations at their partners... Any man who hits a woman deserves to be put up against a wall and shot, but domestic violence goes both ways and in my opinion, emotional abuse causes far more long term damage.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Males between the ages of 20-30 years of age whom committed suicide did not do so because of separation and divorce my friend! Get real!



And yet,you have come up with.........wait for it,NO FACTS to justify those claims you made earlier. Just a humble,yet Gender-Biased opinion.........


Figures......



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 


Let's first tell it like it is so that way YOU have a clear understanding of all of this:

(1) Marriage as it is today is used as a subverted way to bind YOU and your spouse into a contract:
(wait for it) WITH THE STATE. This means that your children have a 3rd party as their parent: THE STATE.

(2) You foolishly pay a federal income tax when YOU, are not liable nor required to.
-You willingly (yet unknowingly) get raped much more than 30% of your worth all in the name of being a slave.


Now. Since you tacitly agreed that you are a slave: the government takes part ownership in ANYTHING
you have a financial vested interest in (house, car, wife, children, etc...)


Now....

What you choose to do with yourself is one thing and YOUR choice only.

You chose to have children with TWO different women and because you made such a stupid decision
you should have to reap what you have sown. (simple, right?)

Now comes the financial aspect of all of this:

-If you cannot afford to pay for the bare minimum requirements YOU need to survive:
-perhaps it would have been wise NOT to have children with more than one woman because

no matter what your reply could be: YOU have 2 failed marriages with multiple children.
(Doesn't sound pretty when it is worded like that, right?)



In the end you are screwed sir.
You made bad choice, after bad choice in succession.
The shelf life of forever isn't what it used to be so marriage is just a foolish institution to become part of.

That said:
I feel child support is #ing bull# plain and simple.
YOU should decide how much money to give your children BASED on being an active
father within their life and based on what YOU are able to give.


The reason why you are in this predicament in the 1st place is the very answer
to the question: why are you so screwed? 2 failed marriages means who messed up and why?

Therein lies your answer.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by SevenBeans
 


There's nothing "broad" or subjective about Domestic Violence......

let me spell it out in plain English.......DV equates to physical ASSAULT

Domestic Abuse can mean physical, mental or economic abuse

Got it?

Know the difference!



It's not YOUR place nor business what other people do within their family walls.
Obviously IF the mother (being a mother) feels as though her life and her children ARE endangered:

SHE and only SHE should be the one to make the decision to seek the assistance of an authoritative nature that will see to it that SHE and her children are protected.

Consequences are what people (namely abusers) need to learn.

However with that out of the way:

A father isn't just a depositor of sperm unwittingly getting a woman pregnant while he just wanted to hit it...
A father in the sense of the word TAKES care of his family and stays because he made a choice
to "partake" in an act that creates new LIFE. PERIOD.


If he messes up, and grabs HER arm, his children should NOT be taken from him.
He should have the opportunity to change, admit his mistakes and resolve the conflict by himself...
However she shouldn't have to put up with ANY violence SHE deems as "violent!"

This is why many woman are too stupid to have children and are not emotionally equipped
with the necessary and seemingly rudimentary faculties that usually come with well adjusted
individuals. She makes a dumb choice: enabling a suave and abusive man to take advantage and
subsequent control of her own life. That is HER fault. Not the children.


In the end: it is NOT your decision to make.

The only time intervention should be administered is if
the mother becomes used to the abuse and subjects her children to it.

There is nothing wrong with a dumb woman getting abused by her husband that refuses to seek help
and leave him: NOTHING. Why? It is her choice. -Unless she is insane/sick in the head of course.

It's time we stop relying on the state and START being real grown ups.

You don't a license to marry! (Unless you want the state to become a 3rd party to your life!)
edit on 17-6-2011 by Chinesis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Males between the ages of 20-30 years of age whom committed suicide did not do so because of separation and divorce my friend! Get real!



And yet,you have come up with.........wait for it,NO FACTS to justify those claims you made earlier. Just a humble,yet Gender-Biased opinion.........


Figures......



I agree with your reply.

I feel if suicide can be the easy chicken # way out of a life HE co-created
then he deserved to kill himself, unless he had children that he would forever SCAR because
he was a selfish piece of crap of a loser father.

So when does the dad take responsibility for being part of a failed marriage he helped
drive into the ground?



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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Isn't the truth really that in these times of government prying and financial pressures heaped on us by government mismanagement, that marriage simply doesn't work!? It always falls apart under the pressure put on it by government... How can you promise to love, honour and obey someone when the government is doing its damndest to take away your livelyhood and make your combined lives as difficult as is possible? As my dear old Dad used to say, anyone can make a mistake but to make the same mistake twice is to simply be stupid. I've been there. I was in a eleven year relationship, engaged, and with a lovely daughter until my ex met another guy with better prospects. Now I have a daughter somewhere out there who thinks I'm the antichrist and the root of all evil. Thats why I only have one child, and have only ever been engaged the once! I learnt from my mistakes...



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by SevenBeans

Originally posted by bluemirage5
The women ultimately have the final say.....so it would be in your best interests to keep a reasonable relationship with her and show some respect; keep that in mind while communicating with her, because if you fail those two things, you don't get far.


Sad but true, if a woman wants to keep you from your kids she'll most likely be able to.

Your only real hope is to kiss her azz no matter how unfairly she has treated you (even if she has abused you and the kids).




You have seemingly lost your balls OR you lack the tools to administer open and honest communication
as well as choosing a superficial whore as your wife if you feel this way.


In a relationship it's 100% each participant.
If you lack assertion within your life then I completely understand your sad and emo point of view.

In every relationship I've been in I made sure I KNEW who I was getting with.
I found everything out about her by: listening to her. Seeing how she treated subordinates...her family.
If there were 2 parents or just one....these ALL play a role.

If she dressed like a whore: chances are your false assumption of being able to control her:
was a foolish thing to do.


Every issue isn't HER OWN to decide on her own! Get it?
Just because she has the egg doesn't mean she calls all of the shots.
And if YOU just assumed this to be so without talking it over with your woman
then there you go! I talk this all over with all woman before EVER sticking it in so to speak.

What kind of moron has the fortitude to put his member inside of an environment that is RIPE
for breeding...when he hasn't the ability to PAY for what happens afterward?

Sounds like shotty planning to me.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by TheLordVeack
 


You really need to get to know your prospective partner!
I always did and the only time I was cheated on was because she was
so hot, I looked the other way when it came to her demeanor and treatment of others.

The fact is: a marriage is a life long commitment WITHOUT needing a 3rd party to validate it!

However if she is programmed (yes I said programmed) -if she is programmed to want marriage
in a church, with her fairytale wedding, and a house with a white picket fence: then you will run into
problems obviously. Can she use an open mind and a calm compassionate voice to resolve conflict?

Conflict will always exist.
How SHE chooses to deal with them is what it's really all about.


A new society has been created based on: looks, promiscuous sex and having multiple partners/relationships.
You pick the wrong one: you will find her nudes on the internet! It's that simple.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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Just some odd questions on the subject of child support....

Why when a couple gives up a child for adoption do they not owe child support?

Why when a single mum gives up a child for adoption does she not owe child support?

Why then, when a man gives up his rights to a child does he owe child support to the woman who keeps it?


Have you ever considered that social concepts like child support and alimony give an appealing financial incentive to divorce and destruction of nuclear families.


"I could humble myself and work really hard to make our family work.... or I could just dump him and get his money"


hrmmm.... what's the divorce rate these days?

Sri Oracle



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Chinesis
 


I think I knew my respective partner after eleven years!
Marriage doesn't work. Government meddling has made marriage the refuge of the foolhardy as when you get wed you pretty much sign over everything you now own, or ever will own, to your partner no matter who is at fault for the marriage breakdown! Have kids and you just confound the situation. Giving your hard earned cash to child support is a bit like giving it to charity to help some un named Africa child get fresh water. In fact, you have more chance of meeting the un named African child who you have donated to than your own child especially if the woman you once loved decides to cause you as much mental anguish and hardship as is humanly possible!
Marriage used to be about the meeting of equals! If that was true equals would walk away from the relationship splitting everything you own down the middle. Now the male walks away knowing that his partner is getting the house, his money, occasionally even the family dog- and even when you meekly comply if your ex so wishes you aint going to see your children until they are grown up and have had years for their mother to poison them against you.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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The moral of the story is don't get married.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by TheLordVeack
 


Domestic Violence does not go both ways my friend. Let me put it quite simply.....there is no justification in any shape or form to raise a hand or fist to a woman.

Kindness and basic respect goes along way when communicating with a woman. Why is that so damn hard to fathom? She does'nt expect you to kiss her butt, she DOES expect you to meet her half way as an equal; perhaps if this formula was part of the marriage in the first place, you'd all still be married!

Problem with many ex husbands, they hate to loose they their "power" of control over the woman. When it comes to you men, it's not about the children, it's always about the fear of their ex wives finding new partners. The fact is, you don't own her and once you have left her nest she is no longer under your control and you have no say in the matter just as she has no say when you men choose your new partners.

When the marriage is over, it's OVER. Get over it and move on. In the mean time, it is strongly suggested you meet her half way for the sake of the children. If you are not the custodial parent, then you work TOGETHER, not against her. She can be your best friend or your worst enemy. If I was a man, I'd want to be in her good graces and be there for both her and my children even if I was'nt living under the same roof. It's everyting to do with COMMON SENSE, that's the golden KEY. Either make it workable or you want to complicate it. If you want to make things difficult, the more the children are going to suffer, and they WILL eventually loose all respect for you in the end. Children are not brain washed, they are smarter than you think. Most children know why their parent's marriage broke down before you even left the house. They are physically in the house when you call, they hear the phone conversations, they see their mother's immediate reaction. It can't be hidden. Got it?

When a child see's his/her mother assaulted or physically mishandled by their father in the home, they don't ever forget it, even at a young age.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by bluemirage5
 


Quite the threatening tone in your post. But domestic violence only goes one way right?



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Chinesis
 


It's no one's business what goes on in a man's castle? The second he raises his hand to his wife he looses that luxury and the act then becomes a crime of assault and you become part of Judicial process. The police have the right to intervene with or without the victim agreeing to do so.

If you raise your hand to a woman, you are likely to raise your hand to a child or pet animal. Usually when a man gets away with it, he will more likely than not do it again. Statistics prove I'm right here.

Yes if the husband commits DV, he should'nt have unsupervised access with his kids; in some cases, he should'nt have access at all.

Yes, if all spouses acted grown up in the first place, there would be no need for the Family Courts because the divorce rate would dramactically decrease.



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