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Men and Child support. What is the answer?

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posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


Gender-Biased court system is the root. Everything else trickles down.............




posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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Since I am very impatient, I will take a stab.

It is called socialism and namely the benefactors of child support are named in section 666 of the social security act. The reason it is being done is threefold. One is to lower the birth ratio in the United States below one percent and ultimately zero. Russia has a negative birthrate and now they are giving cash incentives to families who produce children which leads me to number two. Number two is the destruction of america for if you interfere with family and destroy family you will eventually destroy the entire country. Three is socialism. Socialisms planks are for feminism anti capitalism and human rights, however they get an F on the human rights part and frankly they could care less.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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In their own words, the socialist party of america is pro labor union, anti family, pro homosexual, pro abortion at the tax payers expense.




THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control -- a non-racist, classless, feminist, socialist society in which people cooperate at work, at home, and in the community.

Socialism is not mere government ownership, a welfare state, or a repressive bureaucracy. Socialism is a new social and economic order in which workers and consumers control production and community residents control their neighborhoods, homes, and schools.

The production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few. Socialism produces a constantly renewed future by not plundering the resources of the earth.
Under capitalist and authoritarian "Communist" states, people have little control over fundamental areas of their lives. The capitalist system forces workers to sell their abilities and skills to the few who own the workplaces, profit from these workers' labor, and use the government to maintain their privileged position. Under authoritarian "Communist" states, decisions are made by Communist Party officials, the bureaucracy and the military. The inevitable product of each system is a class society with gross inequality of privileges, a draining of the productive wealth and goods of the society into military purposes, environmental pollution, and war in which workers are compelled to fight other workers.

People across the world need to cast off the systems which oppress them, and build a new world fit for all humanity. Democratic revolutions are needed to dissolve the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. By revolution we mean a radical and fundamental change in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations. The building of socialism requires widespread understanding and participation, and will not be achieved by an elite working "on behalf of" the people. The working class is in a key and central position to fight back against the ruling capitalist class and its power. The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future – to a real radical democracy from below.

Radical democracy is the cornerstone not only of our socialism, but also of our strategy. Here are the main features of each:

Socialist Society

Freedom & Equality

Democratic socialism is a political and economic system with freedom and equality for all, so that people may develop to their fullest potential in harmony with others. The Socialist Party is committed to full freedom of speech, assembly, press, and religion, and to a multi-party system. We are dedicated to the abolition of male supremacy and class society, and to the elimination of all forms of oppression, including those based on race, national origin, age, sexual preferences, and disabling conditions.

Production For Use, Not For Profit

In a socialist system the people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies, cooperatives, or other collective groups. The primary goal of economic activity is to provide the necessities of life, including food, shelter, health care, education, child care, cultural opportunities, and social services.
These social services include care for the chronically ill, persons with mental disabilities, the infirm and the aging. Planning takes place at the community, regional, and national levels, and is determined democratically with the input of workers, consumers, and the public to be served.

Full Employment

Under welfare capitalism, a reserve pool of people is kept undereducated, under-skilled and unemployed, largely along racial and gender lines, to exert pressure on those who are employed and on organized labor. The employed pay for this knife that capitalism holds to their throats by being taxed to fund welfare programs to maintain the unemployed and their children. In this way the working class is divided against itself; those with jobs and those without are separated by resentment and fear. In socialism, full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work.

Worker & Community Control

Democracy in daily life is the core of our socialism. Public ownership becomes a fraud if decisions are made by distant bureaucrats or authoritarian managers. In socialist society power resides in worker-managed and cooperative enterprises. Community-based cooperatives help provide the flexibility and innovation required in a dynamic socialist economy. Workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions. Worker and community control make it possible to combine life at work, home and in the community into a meaningful whole for adults and children. Girls and boys are encouraged to grow up able to choose freely the shape of their lives and work without gender and racial stereotyping. Children are provided with the care, goods and services, and support that they need, and are protected from abuse.

Ecological Harmony

A socialist society carefully plans its way of life and technology to be a harmonious part of our natural environment. This planning takes place on regional, national, and international levels and covers the production of energy, the use of scarce resources, land-use planning, the prevention of pollution and the preservation of wildlife. The cleanup of the contaminated environment and the creation of a nuclear-free world are among the first tasks of a socialist society.

Socialist Strategy

Socialist Feminism and Women's Liberation

Socialist feminism confronts the common root of sexism, racism and classism: the determination of a life of oppression or privilege based on accidents of birth or circumstances. Socialist feminism is an inclusive way of creating social change. We value synthesis and cooperation rather than conflict and competition.
We work against the exploitation and oppression of women who live with lower wages, inferior working conditions and subordination in the home, in society and in politics. Socialists struggle for the full freedom of women and men to control their own bodies and reproductive systems and to determine their own sexual orientation. We stand for the right of women to choose to have a safe and legal abortion, at no cost, regardless of age, race, or circumstance.
Women’s independent organizations and caucuses are essential to full liberation, both before and after the transformation to socialism. Women will define their own liberation.

Liberation of Oppressed People

Bigotry and discrimination help the ruling class divide, exploit, and abuse workers here and in the Third World. The Socialist Party works to eliminate prejudice and discrimination in all its forms. We recognize the right of self-defense in the face of attacks; we also support non-violent direct action in combating oppression. We fully support strong and expanded affirmative action programs to help combat the entrenched inertia of a racist and sexist system which profits from discrimination and social division.
People of color, lesbians and gays, and other oppressed groups need independent organization to fight oppression. Racism will not be eliminated merely by eliminating capitalism.

International Solidarity & Peace

People around the world have more in common with each other than with their rulers. We condemn war, preparation for war, and the militaristic culture because they play havoc with people's lives and divert resources from constructive social projects. Militarism also concentrates even greater power in the hands of the few, the powerful and the violent. We align with no nation, but only with working people throughout the world.

Internal Democracy

Socialism and democracy are one and indivisible. The Socialist Party is democratic, with its structure and practices visible and accessible to all members. We reject dogma and promote internal debate. The Socialist Party is a "multi-tendency" organization. We orient ourselves around our principles and develop a common program, but our members have various underlying philosophies and views of the world. Solidarity within the party comes from the ability of those with divergent views on some issues to engage in a collective struggle towards social revolution. We strive to develop feminist practice within the party.

Cultural Freedom

Art is an integral part of daily life. It should not be treated as just a commodity. Socialists work to create opportunities for participation in art and cultural activities. We work for the restoration and preservation of the history and culture of working people, women, and oppressed minorities.

The Personal as Political

Living under domination and struggling against it exact a personal toll. Socialists regard the distortion of personal life and interpersonal relations under capitalism as a political matter. Socialism must ultimately improve life; this cannot be accomplished by demanding that personal lives be sacrificed for the movement. We cherish the right of personal privacy and the enrichment of culture through diversity.

Electoral Action

Socialists participate in the electoral process to present socialist alternatives. The Socialist Party does not divorce electoral politics from other strategies for basic change. While a minority, we fight for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. When a majority we will rapidly introduce those changes, which constitute socialism, with priority to the elimination of the power of big business through public ownership and workers' control.
By participating in local government, socialists can support movements of working people and make improvements that illustrate the potential of public ownership. We advocate electoral action independent of the capitalist-controlled two-party system.

Democratic Revolution From Below

No oppressed group has ever been liberated except by its own organized efforts to overthrow its oppressors. A society based on radical democracy, with power exercised through people's organizations, requires a socialist transformation from below. People's organizations cannot be created by legislation, nor can they spring into being only on the eve of a revolution.
They can grow only in the course of popular struggles, especially those of women, labor, and minority groups. The Socialist Party works to build these organizations democratically.
The process of struggle profoundly shapes the ends achieved. Our tactics in the struggle for radical democratic change reflect our ultimate goal of a society founded on principles of egalitarian, non-exploitative and non-violent relations among all people and between all peoples.
To be free we must create new patterns for our lives and live in new ways in the midst of a society that does not understand and is often hostile to new, better modes of life. Our aim is the creation of a new social order, a society in which the commanding value is the infinite preciousness of every woman, man and child.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Before the republicans took the house there were 70 names all democrats who are card carrying members of the socialist party.


www.thegatewaypundit.com...



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:30 PM
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Sometimes, you really just have to stop placing blame. In the case a child being born of two consenting adults, there is no one else to blame.

The state didn't do it
The government didn't do it
Socialists didn't do it.
Bush didn't do it.

You did it. Man up.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
What constitutes as fair? And fair for who, you?
edit on 11-6-2011 by CoherentlyConfused because: (no reason given)


I think that a lack of logical fallacy and hypocrisy would be a good start.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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In the state of Colorado a non custodial parent must maintain over 93 days and overnights to receive a break in child support,

The number 93 comes from the beast aliester Crowley 93 (Thelema).

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"

Thelema is the mystery babalon religion and also a socialist NEW WORLD ORDER.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused



A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right. Thomas Paine


Are you saying I'm wrong?



If you think the status quo is correct, then yes, you are wrong. Not in what you are doing for your children, but in what you should expect of our laws as a society.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
 


Nobody did anything, the child support advocates offered a benefit system for the mother to leave the father that quite frankly does not work.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
I am new to this thread, though I have read a bit and what I am getting is a lot of the same. I am a father in the same predicament.

You guys want to get to the root of the problem? What is the root?

Who wants to take a stab?


The root is reproductive choice.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Yes it is a choice and when you can persuade a man not to engage you lower the birth rate.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


You are thinking like this is still the 20th century. There is nothing wrong with socialism. The problem comes when socialism interferes with liberty and the Constitution.

Civilization itself is a socialist construct. But it can be distorted so far to be the very basis of far right wing ideology as in the Nazis, who were vehement opponents of Communism. So really, while I do have some sense of where you are coming from and tend to also agree with you to some extent, you are trying to apply generalized labels which may not actually fit the phenomenon we are witnessing in our societal metamorphosis. Is this "socialism" we are seeing? I say no, this is fascism.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
Sometimes, you really just have to stop placing blame. In the case a child being born of two consenting adults, there is no one else to blame.

The state didn't do it
The government didn't do it
Socialists didn't do it.
Bush didn't do it.

You did it. Man up.


Just because I had sex does not mean I consent to having a child or to paying support for that child.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
Sometimes, you really just have to stop placing blame. In the case a child being born of two consenting adults, there is no one else to blame.

The state didn't do it
The government didn't do it
Socialists didn't do it.
Bush didn't do it.

You did it. Man up.


Just because I had sex does not mean I consent to having a child or to paying support for that child.


Dont ignore the facts dude, less you become a victim of your own ignorance. I posted the facts, it is not a right wing conspiracy it is your undeniable apathy for things you can not control which makes you a left winger, Wake up!!! The Nazis were socialists also.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


I am neither left nor right. I am a Libertarian. And that is my point really. You are still thinking left and right, like politics and society is a stick. It's not. It's a sphere.



posted on Jun, 11 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


No, I am thinking that socialism is the same as it always has been and it DOES NOT WORK and it is in fact destroying you and you are so gullible that you are willing to join in on it.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by CobraCommander
 


No, I am thinking that socialism is the same as it always has been and it DOES NOT WORK and it is in fact destroying you and you are so gullible that you are willing to join in on it.


You are thinking of socialism as you have been programmed to think of socialism. As a leftover from the days of the Commie with-hunts.

The truth is, like I said, and political agendas aside, socialism in its purest form represents the entirety of civilization. Cooperative exchange of resources for the betterment of the community as a whole, and therefore the better standard of living for the individual. If it were not for humans working together as a cooperative community, contributing personal resources to the collective, we would all be living in caves wishing we had someone to pick the ticks out of the fur on our backs.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
Sometimes, you really just have to stop placing blame. In the case a child being born of two consenting adults, there is no one else to blame.

The state didn't do it
The government didn't do it
Socialists didn't do it.
Bush didn't do it.

You did it. Man up.



And here lies the problem. You say its a blame game. You say its equal,and I believe technically, that's true. But your last sentence smells of radical feminism......

"You did it. Man up."

YOU,meaning singular.
MAN,meaning MAN,not women.


This is a social issue,that's being played with children.


The state infringes on peoples rights everyday. FACT
The government infringes on peoples rights everyday. FACT
If you want the freebees the State hands out,to help your children,someones is going to have to pay. FACT
Blaming the corrupt system,that puts fathers at the mercy of the courts is a FACT.
Manning up is showing those with narrow minds,and even narrower ideas that if enough people fight it,they can change it,for the betterment of the children. You have already agreed if you went to court,you would have likely received your kids. You dont find that a little bit insulting,a little bit gender biased? So what happened to this EQUALITY you were speaking of again?






edit on 12-6-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Thats all fun and great.

But in reality you stand for a cause that is detrimental to your own wealth and well being.

The socialist party wants to lower the voting age to 15. Is that what you stand for?

The socialist party wants free abortions to be paid for with tax tax payer dollars regardless of term or circumstance.
Is that what you stand for?

The socialist party openly promotes homosexuality and teaches it to children at school.
Is that what you stand for?

the socialist party promotes feminism.
Is that what you stand for?

The socialist party believes in a fair society in which the public shares everything you own, including your child and you stand for this?

Then don't come here and complain, it is what you asked for to be treated fairly right?

You can be treated no different than anybody else cause your all the same now and you will need a police state to enforce these laws.

If that is not the FASCISM you speak of, then I don't know what is.



posted on Jun, 12 2011 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


Once again, you are confusing a political party with an ideology. The same way that Feminists confuse political feminism with the true power of the feminine.

You are trying to politicize an issue that has nothing to do with either Republican or Democrats. Both parties have worked to achieve the goal of where we are at now with men's reproductive rights.

edit on 12-6-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)



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