Why is abortion illegal for men but not women?

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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background information on myself before I even begin on this topic. I lean pretty far pro-life and feel that a person is responsible for their own actions and the repercussions that follow. However i also believe in fairness and equality in law.

The attack referenced in this thread is horrible and is some of the most abhorant behavior of which I have ever heard. That being said there is some merit to this conversation. Those who have stated that the man should be wearing a condom as contraception, women equally have several options in the arena of contraception (hormone control, spermicides, ETC). I see those that choose to have unprotected sex are CHOOSING to create the potential for life. At this point the choice is made and the consequences result from that initial choice (excluding rape / incest). So in my mind abortion is not even a real option, the choice was already made. That being said, in the legal world we have some more complex issues.

1) abortion in the case of a married couple and 2) abortion in the case of an unmarried couple.

both cases the woman has 100% of the choice with regard to the issue. This is a physiological limitation and will never change barring some major changes in nature. The only issue I may see is that the genetic material that man contributes to the creation of life is the man's property. Perhaps someone could argue legally that the man has a right to terminate a pregnancy on the basis that he does not want his genetic material contributed to another life. (hey i know in some ways it sounds rediculous but it isnt much different than a woman saying I do not want to contribute to creating a life either after the moment of conception has occured)

now why i have them separated. in case 1 which i am sure is pretty damn rare. if the man wants an abortion and a woman does not, even if the man relinquishes all of his parental rights and his state will protect him 100% with that decisiion. Divorce laws will not. If it does not end in divorce... then it is resolved even if the man does not like it.

In case 2. no legal protection can offer the complete emotional and physical disconnect of an abortion. If your state gives you 100% protection from the mother and child support, if your state can prevent the mother from contacting you until the child is 18. Nothing can stop the mother from telling the child about how the father had abandoned them and nothing can prepare the father or the child of the day the child comes looking for the answers to why the father abandoned them. all of thee are questions the mother would never have to answer.

Like it or not there is no equal for this situation. Abortion basically should not exist. It is the only way to make the choice and responsibility equal to the man and a woman. Abortion is an out for a woman that does not think about what sex really is, a mechanism for procreation. The fact that it is enjoyable and fun it not irrelevant but can be addressed through many avenues before conception occurs.

Thinking before you act cures ALOT of these issues.




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 


Yeah, just messin around. Putting backwards thinking in with straight folks. You know if you said that sentence with black people instead, it would be an uproar. I didn't really take it that way. I'm just being dumb.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


I agree with many of your posts and views.

You see, the reason I feel so strongly about abortion, and actually, about some of the situations portrayed in this thread is because I have experienced it first hand.

Over 10 years ago, the girl that I was with at the time got pregnant. She decided that she didn't want to mess up her career ( a $hitty job at the railyard anyway) by having a baby. I tried and tried, but could not change her mind. I wanted nothing more than to have that baby and to be a father. Well, the 8itch went ahead with the abortion against my will, and it really tore me apart that she murdered my child like that. I wanted to kill the heartless 8itch. We broke up shortly after that. Every fathers day after that I pretty much drank myself stupid, and was pretty depressed about it for a long time.

Now I have two beautiful children, but still think about that first one. Some women are just heartless (unts that don't care about how they affect other people or their unborn child. She could have had the baby, left me and I would have gladly been a single parent, but she chose to Murder my baby, and she should not have had that choice without my consent.

I'll always feel that abortion is murder, and nothing will change my mind. I suppose everybody is entitled to their opinion, and on this topic, I have a strong one.
edit on 31-5-2011 by deesul69 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by ldyserenity


They can get a court injunction and claim all custody of the child...then the woman can be sued for child support. It's been done before.


Extremely rare that a man gets sole custody of a child, even when abuse by the mother is proven.

As far as a man legally blocking a woman from having an abortion... link please.


Since I am not a lawyer and have a bad memory, I will need to ask someone in family law to find the exact case. But it has happened, all you gotta do is prove the woman is phsychologically unstable (not too hard when the woman is pregnant, most are not harmonially balanced) and that's coming from a woman. You just have to be smart and have the right lawyer, prove the woman mentally unsound, and you can get an injunction on an abortion.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by deesul69
 


Group homes are filled with kids that never got adopted, and who are regularly abused, often sexually.

I have known more than one person that was adopted, and the majority have said they would rather have not been born at all. A few have been suicides over the years too.

Adoption is no the answer. Not that abortion is necessarily either.

I just think that we would see FAR fewer unwanted pregnancies across the board if women weren't coddled by the system and instead were held accountable for how they manage their OWN sexual responsibilities. As it is right now, becoming pregnant is an entrepreneurial activity for women.
edit on 31-5-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)

I agree. I also think that a man should have a say. But, in the end it's the woman's choice, but you're right if we didn't peddle to these "BABY MILLS" well it certainly would make one more prone to being more responsible, Also I think the 3 strike law should be incited here 3 abortions and one should be forced to be sterilized. Period.
edit on 1-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: spelling



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Well, that support is supposed to go to the child.

I do agree that unfortunately, the system gets abused much too often, and women look at it as a paycheck. It's not all the women's choice, though. The man should have known better. He knows that there's the possibility that she'll get pregnant, and could take him to the cleaners!! Both parties have to be responsible. I'm for small government and personal responsibility, but some guys are just deadbeats. I'd rather have the father forced to support the child than the state do it with my tax dollars.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:05 AM
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The fact that I run into these threads at least once every 2 months or so, without even looking for them, speaks volumes in my mind to the whole male & female relationship thing, basically it says it does not work and is a plain failure. I really think it comes from the feminisation of things and the way they teach and install it into young men, as it is basically destined to fail because it's based on bull#, and false ideals.

So fellas its simple there is only one reason to be involved with a female in a relationship and that is kids and family, and the whole dam thing, if your not willing to go trough that then don't even talk to them # don't even say hi just move along and do your thing till you are able to cope with it and all the bull# that comes along with it. Now depending on different situations and conditions this could go in different ways, but it always comes down to that.

So basically if you can not afford a kid, stay away from females or at least females looking for relationships or whatever, and if your just looking to get laid there are plenty of other options out there. And the most important thing I think is you all got to stop believing what females say or what you have been thought about them in school or whatever by whoever. Basically look at females more like you look at the IRS or the CIA and you would have a way better grasp of what there really like and all about.

So why is it illegal for men to abort there fetus that they helped create, and very legal for females? Many reasons, which are all legit in one way or another, depending on what viewpoint you would look at it from. But personally I think that is outdated and there needs to scraped because it just encourages females to take advantage of it and the idiots that think that sex has no consequences for both of there own little games.

And there are more then enough people in the world, don't need more kids running around who aren't really wanted in the first place by both of there parents, and it would make the ladies think twice before they try any weird entrapment games with the men who don't want kids or cant afford kids, as the law and state would not be in there favor. Hopefully it would get more people to move on till they find somebody that fits there own particular modus operandi and the games and entrapments stop or at the very least diminish in there scope.

edit on 1-6-2011 by galadofwarthethird because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by deesul69
 


I hear ya there. Somehow there is this notion that men don't really want to be fathers, are heartless, and that abortion doesn't affect them. It does.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


I have never seen such a case. And even if what you say is true, it is obviously so extremely rare that is has little bearing on what options a man had. Trying to have someone declared insane is a time consuming process. And by that time, the baby has long since been aborted. And of course, that is assuming that the woman even tells the father she is going to have an abortion in the first place.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 


I hate setting arbitrary rules like 3 strikes laws. They always come back to bite us in the ass with the times when an exception to the rule is called for. But I do see where you are coming from, and agree with you in principal, even if I could not actually support such a law. Really, if a woman has ever had a single abortion, that should have been enough of a wake up call to make sure it never happened again. Especially under similar circumstances and within a short amount of time.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander

Now before we get off on the wrong foot here, I want to say that clearly the man who is the subject of the news article below was wrong in his actions. You can't go violently attacking people in a civilized society. But having said that, I can empathize with the man, and would like to examine the deeper socio-economic issues behind this news brief.

Story and editorial

Thats disgusting... if he feels that strongly he should get a snip


What he did was assult! Don't confuse the issues!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by ldyserenity
 


I hate setting arbitrary rules like 3 strikes laws. They always come back to bite us in the ass with the times when an exception to the rule is called for. But I do see where you are coming from, and agree with you in principal, even if I could not actually support such a law. Really, if a woman has ever had a single abortion, that should have been enough of a wake up call to make sure it never happened again. Especially under similar circumstances and within a short amount of time.


I personally know of two women who have had 3 + abortions...you just don't fix stupid... on the other hand I am glad they didn't bring their progeny to full term, given the intelligence of the women in question.

Also when going to court to get an injunction, in all the cases I can find the court system prevented the woman from terminating until a decision was reached, the thing about the insanity cases they do consume a lot of time and in the end too much time for it to be legal to terminate by the time a decision is reached...that's the beauty of that kind of claim. In the cases I found cited the wheels of justice were quick but none of them thought about attacking the woman's mental state.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by wirefire99

both cases the woman has 100% of the choice with regard to the issue. This is a physiological limitation and will never change barring some major changes in nature. The only issue I may see is that the genetic material that man contributes to the creation of life is the man's property. Perhaps someone could argue legally that the man has a right to terminate a pregnancy on the basis that he does not want his genetic material contributed to another life. (hey i know in some ways it sounds rediculous but it isnt much different than a woman saying I do not want to contribute to creating a life either after the moment of conception has occured)



When a man has sex with a women he gives his genetic material to her. A pregnancy can result after sex no matter how much protection is used by both parties. If he doesn't want to risk giving his genetic material to a women he should not have sex with her or get a snip. It's really that easy



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by deesul69
reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Well, that support is supposed to go to the child.

I do agree that unfortunately, the system gets abused much too often, and women look at it as a paycheck. It's not all the women's choice, though. The man should have known better. He knows that there's the possibility that she'll get pregnant, and could take him to the cleaners!! Both parties have to be responsible. I'm for small government and personal responsibility, but some guys are just deadbeats. I'd rather have the father forced to support the child than the state do it with my tax dollars.


So you are justifying extortion because you don't want to pay taxes? The point here is that is IS all the woman's choice. Just because the man knows it's a possibility the woman will get pregnant makes no difference whatsoever. If I sell you a gallon of gasoline, it is possible that you will use it to light a house on fire, or use it to run your motorcycle. Is it the clerk's responsibility if you blow your motor or get in a DWI wreck?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by inanna1234

When a man has sex with a women he gives his genetic material to her. A pregnancy can result after sex no matter how much protection is used by both parties. If he doesn't want to risk giving his genetic material to a women he should not have sex with her or get a snip. It's really that easy


So you're telling me that if a teenage boy doesn't want to be extorted for money, then he should be sterilized? And that sounds reasonable to you?

If a woman knows a man has AIDS, and still chooses to have sex with him, can she turn around and sue him for damages when she catches AIDS?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


If men didn't pay child support for their children, you would have to pay through it in taxes! If some guy ran around having 10 kids with a handful of woman and he chooses not to pay support... guess who does? The Government (you)... why do you think their so hard on dads who don't pay it? If you don't want to pay child support then don't have a child until you're in a commited relationship, keep it in your pants, wear protection or get a snip! It's really that simple!


And to add if you're sleeping with someone who you think would "extort" you for money and purposely get pregnant, you're obviously hanging around the wrong people... but then again, like attracts like!
edit on 1-6-2011 by inanna1234 because: Added Info



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by deesul69
 

Serious question here......

Do women feel ANY guilt,when it comes to abortion? Really wondering about it,since its become so frivolous of an action nowadays.

I have children also,and when I look into their eyes I could NEVER see myself NOT having them around,to love,to feel,to see.


Star for you.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by inanna1234
 


So your entire argument is that it's the man's responsibility to pay for the woman's choices.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by deesul69
 

Serious question here......

Do women feel ANY guilt,when it comes to abortion? Really wondering about it,since its become so frivolous of an action nowadays.

I have children also,and when I look into their eyes I could NEVER see myself NOT having them around,to love,to feel,to see.


Star for you.


As with any group that is relative...some do have some or a lot of guilt and some really are cold hearted twits... just like any other human, it is based individually. Everybody is different.
edit on 1-6-2011 by ldyserenity because: spelling



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by inanna1234
 


So your entire argument is that it's the man's responsibility to pay for the woman's choices.


A man made a choice when he had unprotected sex... everytime u have sex a pregnancy can result... thats not a womens choice, its a joint choice everytime u have sex... do u understand how much u would have to pay in taxes if men didn't have to pay child support? and how many more childless fathers there would be running around? What are u not seeing? There are reasons why governments are so hard on dead beats, because they don't want to pay for them!

I have a child and I don't get child support so not everyone with a child gets child support (I support myself). Most young women I know with children don't get any support.





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