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Why is abortion illegal for men but not women?

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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******* REMINDER ********

Please be civil to one another when replying.

Stay on topic and play nice or your post will be removed.

Thanks




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by arriana
I I had seen this thread before I joined ATS I would never have joined. The mindset of many of the men here is truly disturbing.
This a pretty typical anti female thread here on ATS. An OP starts a thread with a illogical and ridiculous statement (ie it is biologically impossible for men to have an abortion), then the rest of the anti female posters come out and post, usually keep her legs closed and other such dark age drivel. Fascinating to watch from a sociological pov, and predictible as hell.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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equality is something very much spoken about but rearely practized in reality due to indoctrinated "norms" of a drone society gone hey wild due to script error,

id say much of the double standards comes due to extravagated intro and extrovert communication between one self and ones surrounding ,



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by Wolvo
 


He's not justifying the method the attacker used. But he is pointing out that there are much deeper issues behind the reported attack. Why should a man be forced by law to be a father, when women have no such obligation?


I think personally that when abortion comes up that both parents must agree on paper and without such an agreement abortion should not be legal.. I mean honestly I think if a man got a woman pregnant and he deeply wants to be a father, as long as sex was consensual then the woman should have no right to abort without the permission of the father.. unless the father is dead, not of sound mind or the woman's life is at risk.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


People just need to stop running everyone elses lives, its dictatorship! why cant people see this, and you know who are the main perpertrators, RELIGION! people think that they can tell us what to do with our bodys, how to live our lives, how to be, how to act, who to be attracted to or not attracted to, it no better then the nazis regime, dictatorship, catagorisation, who is better then the other, and who should be crusified, i am a woman who can have a child but i still think its disgusting that people tell women, as the male religious followers and leaders have and still do, what to do with our lives, and now the women of religious denominations are also doing, stop it, its what i call the 4th reich. if i and others where to tell these religious folk what to do with there bodies who would they act, i dont imagine they would be to happy, well thats how allot of women AND men feel!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Huh? No...anyway, I think it's acceptable for some men to be "against" women in this situation.
I bet a lot of guys are stuck with a child that they have to pay for that they didn't want and the choice to keep it was made only by the women.

I think men should have the right to just say no to a baby and if the women wants to keep it, well she is on her own.
Men have to do their part in contraception if they do not want a baby, but in the end, the women has a lot more options and is the main bearer of her decisions.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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I guess it would help to know what subdivision three of section 125.05 said. This seems to refer to this particular law and these are just situational descriptions of offense.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by NadaCambia
And the women who have abortions against the will of the father. If she didn't want a baby maybe she should have closed her legs or put something in it?
Not necessary, abortion is legal and it is just one of several reproductive choice available to women. It is called taking responsibility for her actions.


But it's not responsible, is it, really? To get into a position where you would need an abortion, where you would need to kill an unborn child.

The premise of comments in this thread have suggested that men should father and pay financial support to their child, as it's solely their fault for not using protection, and therefore they're responsible for the baby.

Yet when women decide to sleep with men who aren't wearing protection, there's no fault on their side. And when they're pregnant they shouldn't have to take responsibility(as men do). Instead they should be encouraged to have an abortion. That's not responsibility. It's a get-out-of-jail card and there's no moral difference between that and beating an unborn baby to death.


Originally posted by hotbakedtater
then the rest of the anti female posters come out and post, usually keep her legs closed and other such dark age drivel. Fascinating to watch from a sociological pov, and predictible as hell.


So it's backwards and sexist to suggest women should take PREcaution's and not engage in sex with men who aren't willing to wear protection. But you have nothing to say to those who are slamming men for not wearing protection?

There's nothing sexist here. People are practicing equality. If the man is blamed and at fault for not wearing a condom, so is the woman for willfully having sex with such a man. The only difference between a man and woman on the issue is the woman has a legal right to kill the baby, while the man has none.

Sooner or later you're going to have to take real responsibility and not put yourself in positions where you need to have an abortion.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by Tahnya86
reply to post by CobraCommander
 


People just need to stop running everyone elses lives, its dictatorship! why cant people see this, and you know who are the main perpertrators, RELIGION! people think that they can tell us what to do with our bodys, how to live our lives, how to be, how to act, who to be attracted to or not attracted to, it no better then the nazis regime, dictatorship, catagorisation, who is better then the other, and who should be crusified, i am a woman who can have a child but i still think its disgusting that people tell women, as the male religious followers and leaders have and still do, what to do with our lives, and now the women of religious denominations are also doing, stop it, its what i call the 4th reich. if i and others where to tell these religious folk what to do with there bodies who would they act, i dont imagine they would be to happy, well thats how allot of women AND men feel!


This has nothing to do with religion, it's basic morality. I'm an Anti-Theist, for example. Nor does it have anything to do with State Dictatorship - I'm an Anarchist. It's about ethics, not control or sexism.

What right do you have to kill an unborn child, your unborn child at that?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Well, I've yet to hear how a man can be raped and impregnated. Men don't get pregnant, they can't get abortions. If a man wants a child he should find a woman that wants one also... If he doesn't want a child he should use protection or keep it in his pants.

It really shouldn't be that difficult to understand.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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No one is saying the woman shouldn't take precautions of course she should, and I have mentioned this in a previous post or 3.

The issue here is men thinking they have the right to force an abortion, or a pregnancy on a woman. There is no equality in that.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Women have taken an active stance in the usage of contraceptive herbs & abortifacients since time immemorial, so I don't understand why people keep whipping themselves up into a frenzy like it's some modern thing. Heck, it's even possible now with enough vitamin C and herbs from the kitchen cupboard / garden & you act quick enough. Whether you find abortion abhorrent or not that's just the way it is & like as not shall always be. We have never as a species only committed carnal acts to procreate, we sure as hell never will neither.

I'm sure though, instances such as the blog article described have also occurred throughout history, but I am more likely to think it occurred as a punishment to the woman for perceived miss - deeds, such as gossip suggesting the child was a product of adultery.

Now then, while I understand there will always be the odd person of either sex who will use abortion, forced abortion or even have a child to get one over on someone this I am sure isn't the norm. Perhaps the poor girl in question (and yes she is a girl) has been so addled by anti abortionists that she herself perceives abortion as murder. Is that her fault or the fault of her nation who allows this rabid anti choice nonsense?.

As for the fella. I just don't understand why he's having relations with a bare slip of a girl anyway, in my experience it's all about control and he's lost it - quite possibly because her body is no longer his and he's outright jealous of her loving a baby more than him.

You see, between the lines we can garner as much claptrap as we like and to use this as an argument over the male rights to abort a child is silly. It's abuse pain and simple.

I see alot on idiocy in this thread about women just keeping their legs shut or ramblings about contraception. First point is obviously made by male virgins since most men will do anything / say anything to play hide the sausage and secondly there is no contraception to my knowledge that is 100% effective.
edit on 1-6-2011 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-6-2011 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Suspiria
 


Abortion is used since the high egypt, it been used by greeks and romans also, it been used by the womens captured by other tribes to prevent having to carry a baby from rapes.



The use of herbs and roots was used during the middle age to prevent having undesired kids during the famines.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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Instead of worrying about other people, how about you worry about yourself? How does an abortion affect you? You never met the little bastard (and I say that in the correct term), so what harm does it give you? Death happens, get used to it, cause we're ALL going to witness it at one point or another.

Am I going to hell? Probably. Do I care? No.
edit on 1-6-2011 by abaraikenshi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Well, I've yet to hear how a man can be raped and impregnated. Men don't get pregnant, they can't get abortions. If a man wants a child he should find a woman that wants one also... If he doesn't want a child he should use protection or keep it in his pants.

It really shouldn't be that difficult to understand.


People understand that. What's difficult to understand is why the same doesn't apply to females. If women don't want children, don't have sex with guys who aren't willing to armour-up.

Is that difficult to understand?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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Seriously???? I cant believe all the absurd comments and suggestions. I am seeing on here.


Men are able to poke what they want and then just walk away. THAT IS MEN'S FORM OF ABORTION!!!!!!!

Lastly, in regards to Men being "trapped" into the baby if the woman wants to have it, then maybe us Men should look at it more like a Poker game. You can join the table, throw your money in the pot and take a gamble at winning,,,but remember the chance that the game itself could cost you more than you were willing to lose. It's a responsibility that comes with having a "stick"


Bottom Line Here........to quote another comment, the reason "A man is required by law to be a father and a woman is not" is simply.....It's HER BODY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE.If it was left up to men to be the deciding factor AT ALL, then we would be telling another human being what to do with their body. Men wouldn't like that very much

And while I am sure that it hurts in the RARE INSTANCE a man wants the child, and a women chooses abortion, let's be honest here. The statistics of it being the other way around (single girl winds up in clinic partly because the guy has refused to help) is the situation 90 percent of the time.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by CobraCommander
 


Well, I've yet to hear how a man can be raped and impregnated. Men don't get pregnant, they can't get abortions. If a man wants a child he should find a woman that wants one also... If he doesn't want a child he should use protection or keep it in his pants.

It really shouldn't be that difficult to understand.


People understand that. What's difficult to understand is why the same doesn't apply to females. If women don't want children, don't have sex with guys who aren't willing to armour-up.

Is that difficult to understand?


Male condoms: 98% effective if used correctly. Two women in 100 whose partners use a condom will get pregnant in a year.
Female condoms: 95% effective if used correctly. Five women in 100 who use a female condom will get pregnant in a year.
Diaphragms and caps with spermicide: latex caps are 92-96% effective if used correctly. Between four and eight women in 100 who use latex diaphragms and caps with spermicide will get pregnant in a year. Silicone caps are less effective.
Contraceptives available with a prescription

Combined contraceptive pill: over 99% effective if taken correctly. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the combined pill.
Progestogen-only pill: 99% effective if taken correctly. One woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the progestogen-only pill.
Contraceptive injections: over 99% effective. They last for eight or 12 weeks, depending on the type of injection. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year when using contraceptive injections.
Contraceptive implants: over 99% effective. They work for three years but can be taken out earlier. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant over three years when using contraceptive implants.
Contraceptive patches: over 99% effective if used correctly. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year when using contraceptive patches.
Intrauterine system (IUS): over 99% effective. An IUS normally works for five years but can be taken out earlier. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant over five years when using an IUS.
Intrauterine device (IUD): over 99% effective. An IUD can stay in place for five to 10 years, depending on the type but can be taken out at any time. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year, depending on the type of IUD. Older types of IUD are less effective.
Sterilisation (permanent contraception)

Female sterilisation: more than 99% effective. One in 200 women will become pregnant after being sterilised.
Male sterilisation or vasectomy: about one in 2,000 men can become fertile again after a vasectomy.
Natural family planning

Natural family planning can be up to 99% effective but the methods need to be followed precisely. It's more effective if more than one method is used and it's taught by specialist teachers.
Up to one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year when using natural family planning correctly. However, for some women, natural family planning is not suitable or it may be less effective. For more information, see What is natural family planning?
www.nhs.uk...

Please read...Babies happen even if the most stringent precautions are taken.


edit on 1-6-2011 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
reply to post by Phenomium
 


No one is murdering a baby with abortion.


Then I take it you think it isn't human in there? Then a man should be able to dissociate from the cells before it turns into a child. If it's an extension of a woman's body, then it's her own damn property and thus she should take responsibility for it, instead of forcing the man.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Some may not agree, but this is my opinion: If a man does not want to be a father then he should a.) use a condom or b.) abstain. It is up to HIM to take the necessary precautions to protect himself. I hate when I hear guys say "she was supposed to be on the pill". If he were being responsible then she wouldn't be pregnant. It goes both ways. No woman should be saying "he told me he was sterile". Personal responsibility is what it is all about. If a guy doesn't use protection and a woman gets pregnant, then the decision is hers because the situation resides in her body at this point. I won't argue the morality of abortion. As long as I'm not having one, then it isn't my business...



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