Why is abortion illegal for men but not women?

reply to post by sonnny1


Yes women have equal rights, and we have the rights over our own bodies just as men do. Push for a safe and effective male pill.

The rights that truly matter here are the child's rights and most of all the child's right to live. Murder is murder and yet we have become so evil in our nature, people are here arguing that men and women should have the same rights to take another's life for convenience. Money is more important than life.

Yet the same people will move heaven and earth to a save a fly that happens to live where a needed structure is to be built. Will wipe out entire economies to save one of the most prolific fish to live on the planet and deny water to farms and destroy tens of thousands of jobs for that fish. They have no problem murdering their own child however, simply because they are too immature and lazy to use birth control. Men who say they don't want children won't get themselves clipped due to some misguided macho issue and women who don't want them will not do it either, so they are liars.

At some point there will be a price to pay. At some point somebody will decide their lives are as expendable as the children they chose to murder for convenience. Already it is happening with the elderly. Who next, the handicapped? Should we perhaps adopt the Hitlerian Ideal? Are we that sick as a society. It would seem so.

For all of you who say, "Zip it up!!", what about the boys being raped? These boys have to pay child support. This actually goes to something not being brought up. Why do these children automatically go to the mothers, unless you sue for custody or the mothers give their children up?

By allowing women to make decisions on abortion, custody, and in some cases child support, it makes father's more likely to feel trapped, and lash out. When people have their rights infringed upon, that's what happens.

How can a woman decide she wants to have a baby, then turn around and make somebody else pay for that decision? You can't say it's my body, until it isn't...and once it isn't, I want somebody else to share the burden.

They will infringe upon a father's rights for child support, because it's in the best interest of the child. But even though it's in the best interest of the child to not be killed, they won't infringe upon a the rights of the mother.

There are cases where false father's were told they were the father, until one day the mother said, " Ths ain't your kid." The father's prove through paternity, they aren't the father, but are still oredered to pay support. Why? Because, the judge said it was in the best interest of the child, for them to support that child. By that logic, all the mother's on that street, should be paying that child support, because that would clearly be in the best interest of the child.

When can we finally stop pretending it's about the best interest of the child, and admit it's about the best interest of the mother. That money is not the child's money, it's the mother's money. She can buy whatever she wants with it, no matter what the child needs.

reply to post by Bee2010


i do push for ender equality legislation in my state and support the development of a "male pill."

EDIT to add: And I am not angry at women for their right to choose. I am angry at the hypocrisy. Women can choose what they want, what they think is best, but men have no such choice.

reply to post by Bee2010


A make pill still does not resolve the hypocrisy of abortion choice or child-support payments. If there were a male pill, it would certainly give men a better tool to use, but is still would do nothing to address the bias of our laws.

Originally posted by Alexander_Supertramp
So a man and a woman have consenting sex. They are not married. They are in a serious relationship, but hadn't yet talked in depth about marriage.

1. They both understand that pregnancy is a possibility.

2. The man used a condom.

3. The woman is on the pill.

4. The woman takes a Plan B pill the next morning.

5. The woman still gets pregnant.

That is the silliest thing I've ever read... I could not finish reading anything after that. Noooooo logic in that at all... possible, but your basing whatever you're about to talk about on a VERY VERY VERY small percentage.


And if a girl did all that to protect herself from a baby... I'm sure they'd get an abortion, or they'd both want to keep it. I don't want dang kid, but if that happened to me... SUPER BABY.

Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

Maybe he did take precautions. I know a guy who's girlfriend was dumping his used condoms into herself. That's an extreme example of course. But how many times do women lie when they say they are on the pill?

Well that's a completely seperate legal issue alltogether. That would be a criminal action by the mother, and could be dealt with accordingly.....

The issue here, is that if you are having unprotected sex, then you must be willing to pay the price. If you're having unprotected sex with a woman that you know so little about, that she might be faking taking her pills.....well then to be frank.....Such a person would be a Moron. If you can't trust her that much, then you couldn't trust her for not having AIDS or some other horrible STD....In other words USE A CONDOM UNLESS YOU WANT A KID, AND TRUST A WOMAN COMPLETELY!

As far as the woman having more say in the issue.....You do realize that SHE'S the one who has to carry the child and then take care of it afterwards, right? Honestly these are pretty basic concepts....it doesn't take a genius to figure them out! Why are you asking such questions anyway?

Originally posted by Bee2010
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Yes women have equal rights, and we have the rights over our own bodies just as men do. Push for a safe and effective male pill.

Actually,women have ALL the rights when it comes to Abortion.(Even though it took a man to help in the fertility)
Women have ALL the rights in Custody of a children. (80-90% of women GET custody,based on being a women.)

Ill push for the same thing women have been pushing for since Women's suffrage....................

EQUALITY.

And a safe pill that weeds out those who think one genders answer is better then another,due to having a Uterus......

Why should fathers pay child support if the child is the woman's property? After all, it's just a clump of cells right?

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75

Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

Maybe he did take precautions. I know a guy who's girlfriend was dumping his used condoms into herself. That's an extreme example of course. But how many times do women lie when they say they are on the pill?

Well that's a completely seperate legal issue alltogether. That would be a criminal action by the mother, and could be dealt with accordingly.....

The issue here, is that if you are having unprotected sex, then you must be willing to pay the price. If you're having unprotected sex with a woman that you know so little about, that she might be faking taking her pills.....well then to be frank.....Such a person would be a Moron. If you can't trust her that much, then you couldn't trust her for not having AIDS or some other horrible STD....In other words USE A CONDOM UNLESS YOU WANT A KID, AND TRUST A WOMAN COMPLETELY!

As far as the woman having more say in the issue.....You do realize that SHE'S the one who has to carry the child and then take care of it afterwards, right? Honestly these are pretty basic concepts....it doesn't take a genius to figure them out! Why are you asking such questions anyway?

How would that be a criminal action by the mother? And even if it were, that still doesn't mean you won't get stuck paying support. Just like the teen boys who are raped and have to pay support.

As far as having unprotected sex with a woman, it doesn't have to be a stranger. More then one guy was lied to by his girlfriend of a year or two who suddenly winds up pregnant just as he is about to leave her.

And as far as women and their say, you say it is women who have to take care of it afterwards. Wrong. It is the man who pays for it.

The woman is the one going through pregnancy, she should have a right to terminate it if she does not want to.


Somehow off-topic, but I believe a man should have a right to opt-out of child support and such if he does not want the baby but only the woman does. That way, the woman would still be the decision-maker, but she will also have full responsibility for her decision.

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75


As far as the woman having more say in the issue.....You do realize that SHE'S the one who has to carry the child and then take care of it afterwards, right? Honestly these are pretty basic concepts....it doesn't take a genius to figure them out! Why are you asking such questions anyway?

You also realize there are men WILLING to take care of the child,even if the women wants an abortion. Small price to pay,if a mans willing to make the sacrifice,and raise the child,even by himself. Why cant equality equate to abortion,especially in this instance? Final say because its her body? Thats not equality,when it took two to conceive the fetus. I find it selfish,even if its true. And even if its true,doesnt mean it has to be that way. MHO

Originally posted by Maslo
The woman is the one going through pregnancy, she should have a right to terminate it if she does not want to.


Somehow off-topic, but I believe a man should have a right to opt-out of child support and such if he does not want the baby but only the woman does. That way, the woman would still be the decision-maker, but she will also have full responsibility for her decision.

I tend to agree with this. But the argument could be made that by her choosing to have unprotected sex, she already chose to mother a child for that man. Just like a man should not assume she will abort if he doesn't want to be a father, she should not assume that he would want her to abort.

Originally posted by CobraCommander

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75

Originally posted by CobraCommander
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

Maybe he did take precautions. I know a guy who's girlfriend was dumping his used condoms into herself. That's an extreme example of course. But how many times do women lie when they say they are on the pill?

Well that's a completely seperate legal issue alltogether. That would be a criminal action by the mother, and could be dealt with accordingly.....

The issue here, is that if you are having unprotected sex, then you must be willing to pay the price. If you're having unprotected sex with a woman that you know so little about, that she might be faking taking her pills.....well then to be frank.....Such a person would be a Moron. If you can't trust her that much, then you couldn't trust her for not having AIDS or some other horrible STD....In other words USE A CONDOM UNLESS YOU WANT A KID, AND TRUST A WOMAN COMPLETELY!

As far as the woman having more say in the issue.....You do realize that SHE'S the one who has to carry the child and then take care of it afterwards, right? Honestly these are pretty basic concepts....it doesn't take a genius to figure them out! Why are you asking such questions anyway?

How would that be a criminal action by the mother? And even if it were, that still doesn't mean you won't get stuck paying support. Just like the teen boys who are raped and have to pay support.

As far as having unprotected sex with a woman, it doesn't have to be a stranger. More then one guy was lied to by his girlfriend of a year or two who suddenly winds up pregnant just as he is about to leave her.

And as far as women and their say, you say it is women who have to take care of it afterwards. Wrong. It is the man who pays for it.

Are you serious?!?! You do realize it takes a LOT more than just a bit of Child Support from a guy to raise a child right?!?! Trust me...I've known a lot of single Mom's....There Child Support certainly doesn't cover the whole cost of the child!

As for it not being a stranger....I never said it had to be now did I? It's irresponsible to not use a condom. My longest relationship was 8 years.....We ALWAYS used a condom...neither of us had VD's and she WAS on the pill!

Do you know why we didn't use a condom?........WE DIDN'T WANT A KID! It's that simple...if a guy screws up, then he screws up. He needs to be a MAN and not make excuses for himself....it's pretty disgusting actually to see a guy try to get out of child support with those types of arguments......Sorry not meaning to offend you, it's just so far removed from anything I can even comprehend it's hard to accept some guys can even think in that fashion.

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


Yes, it does take more than a bit of child support from a guy. But who says the guy is not willing to do all the rest of the things that are necessary. I know plenty of men that are very active in their kids lives and STILL have to pay support. Even if custody and residency is evenly split, the man STILL has to pay support to the mother.

As far as strictly the financial costs, as I stated above, child support money cannot go to things like utilities and housing. The mother already has to pay for those things for herself anyway. There is no additional cost incurred on you cable TV bill for having a child in the house. There is no reason why it should cost more than $100 a week to raise a child. And now you have to cut that figure in half, because after all, it's half her responsibility too.

Now as far as your own personal choice to wear condoms, good for you. In my own personal experience, it is usually the women who don't like them for one thing. For another, personally, I am allergic to latex as have been several girls I dated over the years. End all be all, I have never gotten a woman pregnant who did not herself intend to become pregnant, and I never use rubbers. So there ya go.

A make pill still does not resolve the hypocrisy of abortion choice or child-support payments. If there were a male pill, it would certainly give men a better tool to use, but is still would do nothing to address the bias of our laws.

reply to post by CobraCommander


Thank you for this. I have tried to bring up this notion of equality in our laws, and have basically found the entire discussion depressing and disheartening. It really bothers me that many women don't seem to get the idea that rights and responsibilities are intertwined on the level of natural law. They will on one hand use metaphors about sperm being a "gift" and then refuse to answer when you ask "what other 'gift' am I charged heavily and in perpetuity for "giving" someone?"

Or the simple fact that abortion, adoption, and safe-harbor laws insure that their parenthood is undeniably a choice does not give them a minor hiccup of logical incongruity in their refusing to accept full responsibility for that choice. That they would force their choice on another with no thought and use every mental justification and evasion to avoid what that really says about them morally. It bothers me that women, and self-righteous men, claim that men shouldn't even have sex if they don't want children, as though turning biology upside down, and making men the gatekeepers of women's bodies was sensible, rational, or even possible.

The stupidity and selfishness of these opinions have so disheartened me that I have given up discussing this. I have read the entire thread, and I have to commend you, sir. You have kept your head throughout and I really, really admire that. I won't be joining in the discussion beyond this point, but I felt I had to tell you that.

reply to post by joechip


Thank you very much joechip. That was an excellnt post you made as well. Cheers.

Here's a radical solution. Sex should remain in the realm of marriage. No one should have sex outside the marriage bond. Once married and the man and wife have consented to being agreeable to having a child/children and rearing it then they can.. If they agree not to they can take measures that they don't, which aren't ever 100% sure. And if they then still do have a child, they will lovingly agree to take care of it.

If you are not mature enough to take care of your own children, if you don't have the funds to support one, then maybe you should think about waiting to get married. When you get married you are both stating you are mature enough for the relationship and are willing to take care of your marriage mate.

Problem solved. The incidences of unwanted pregnancy will drop 1000000 fold.

The problem with today's society, and even many people on this forum is that you want all of the fun but none of the responibility. The problem is, you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are consequences for our actions. If you do drugs, you have a high probability of developing mental disorders, going into poverty, loosing your job, contracting diseases, etc.

If you want unprotected sex with a partner you will not take care of you will risk STDs, emotional trauma, unwanted pregnancies, etc.

People think they have the right to do what they want without being responsible for themselves. Nutheads, everyone that thinks that way. Nutheads, murdering children in the womb because they are too selfish, too stupid.

Originally posted by joechip

A make pill still does not resolve the hypocrisy of abortion choice or child-support payments. If there were a male pill, it would certainly give men a better tool to use, but is still would do nothing to address the bias of our laws.

reply to post by CobraCommander

 

Thank you for this. I have tried to bring up this notion of equality in our laws, and have basically found the entire discussion depressing and disheartening. It really bothers me that many women don't seem to get the idea that rights and responsibilities are intertwined on the level of natural law. They will on one hand use metaphors about sperm being a "gift" and then refuse to answer when you ask "what other 'gift' am I charged heavily and in perpetuity for "giving" someone?"

Or the simple fact that abortion, adoption, and safe-harbor laws insure that their parenthood is undeniably a choice does not give them a minor hiccup of logical incongruity in their refusing to accept full responsibility for that choice. That they would force their choice on another with no thought and use every mental justification and evasion to avoid what that really says about them morally. It bothers me that women, and self-righteous men, claim that men shouldn't even have sex if they don't want children, as though turning biology upside down, and making men the gatekeepers of women's bodies was sensible, rational, or even possible.

The stupidity and selfishness of these opinions have so disheartened me that I have given up discussing this. I have read the entire thread, and I have to commend you, sir. You have kept your head throughout and I really, really admire that. I won't be joining in the discussion beyond this point, but I felt I had to tell you that.

People only believe in equality when it benefits women. When it is disadvantageous to women, well everyone pays homage to the credence that it is a "woman's prerogative to change her mind and make men pay for it".

Men are more or less the black's of the 21st Century. I don't see the point in acknowledging that not everyone is like that, when they are allowed to be like that whenever they want under the current feminist legal system.

But it is pointless to have these discussions because of the girl's club effect. It would be like using a time machine and going back to 1910 or something and trying to talk sense into most Southern "whites" and KKK members about how bad racism is.

Even if somewhere deep down inside they have a concept of right-wrong and fairness, it is all negated by the fact that they don't care. Their female supremacist dogma and mindset is so sacrosanct that they will automatically view any dissent as apostasy, rendering any attempt to talk to them mute.

Reply to post by Calender

Yes marriage would fix everything...because married couples do not get divorced or have abortions or abandon each other. A lot of people .make the premature step of getting married before they are mature enough to handle it. So part of this still boils down how responsible and mature people are as individuals.


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