Biker activists shut down Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri

reply to post by SprocketUK


We're going to have to agree to disagree then.

Perhaps its different in the UK, i dont know. Over here, they are criminal organization, plain and simple. There is no if, ands or buts about it.

No Canadian in his right mind joins one of these clubs expecting to work long, hard hours at a 9 to 5 job, then donate large amounts of their income to build the massive fortresses they use as clubhouses. They know what they are getting into.

While i dont believe like you obviously do that EVERYTHING the MSN shows us is false, im sure they do mis-direct us from time to time. Reguardless, i can dig up many, MANY links showing you arrests of outlaws in Canada over the last 10 years. The rap sheets are quite enormous.

nightbringr, based on your logic about "outlaw bikers" all black guys who are dressed with baggy pants, dew rags, underwear showing, and lots of "bling" are either drug dealers or gangsters. You are stereotyping.

I work with a couple "1%ers" and they are far from being so called "drug dealers" and "criminals", they wouldn't be able to hold the position they do in our company if they had any criminal background. However, they do enjoy the biker brotherhood and the sense of belonging they get from being a part of the clubs they belong to. They are quite respectable fella's who stand up for what they belive in. For example, a bunch of us banded together to have the word "redneck" added to the list of words considered to be a racial slur where we work as we got sick and tired of little nerds throwing it around when poking fun at our NASCAR pool. No "R" word is allowed now thanks to them.

To the moderator and everyone else who took part in the Highway of Hero's motorcycle ride outside of Toronto, from a Canadian Forces Reservist, the friends I have who are serving in Afghanistan and the families of those who have fallen doing so, THANK YOU! it is highly appreciated and extensively reported about at the CFB's in Kandahar.

As for these so called "baptists" preaching thier hate, they got what they deserved and I wish I could have been a part of the group of fellas who sent a few of them off to the dentist office spitting blood and chiclets, well done fella's, well done! Who knows, maybe some time in the near future a very distraught family member of one of these poor souls snaps and begins picking them off with a high powered sniper rifle from a distance; one can only hope.

Arrests don't mean anything, hell, you can get done for carrying a single joint. That hardly makes you a bad un, does it?

I believe some stuff in the MSM, like what's on the telly.

Anyway, you're right about one thing, we probably won't ever agree, but if you have the patience, read Daniel R Wolfe's account of his time with the Rebels in Canada. That should dispel a few myths. (it was the basis of his doctoral thesis, so shouldn't be dismissed out of hand).

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


They dont have records, therefore they never do anything wrong...............

Empty logic. You can try and convince me all day long that Hells are choir boys, i simply dont believe it. Yes, they can have integrity, yes they can be polite and well spoken. They have a strong sense of ethics and to some extent, morals. But woe be to he who gets in their way.

Yes, getting arrested for a joint is rediculous. Getting arrested for importing massive amounts of coc aine, then threatening witnesses and families of witnesses and lawyers to get them to keep silent is not.

Ive heard the argument a million times from the people who know one and think he is a "good" person. But this is the same as the neighbour who lived next to a serial killer. When interviewed they all say the same thing, "Oh! He was such a good neighbour! Kept to himself, kept a nice clean yard, never any trouble, im so surprised!".

These are not stupid people. They know walking around, causing trouble and instigating problems gets them no where. So they live seemingly wholesome lives, donate to charity, hassle people we hate like the WBC and everyone thinks they are heros!

Sorry, i see though that thin veneer.

Again, more baseless stereotypical garbage.

I can tell by just reading over your posts in this thread that you have never met or hung around with these kinds of guys, ever, you haven't the slightest clue. If you did, you would know that yes a criminal element to a certain extent does exist in some of the major biker clubs like the Hells Angles, but not all of them, and even then, not all Hells Angles Chapters are driven by criminal activity. You at least know that these clubs have regional chapters right? You are basing your stereotypical statements on the chapters that have been involved in organized crime in the past and are basically declaring ALL outlaw biker clubs to be criminal. You obviously haven't got the slightest idea what the clubs that aren't invovled with organized crime are about, if you did, you wouldn't be making such statements.

Debating someone who insists on using none factual evidence as the basis of his arguements is pointless.

This thread sure has gotten off topic. Why are we talking about the Hells Angels when it wasnt the Hells Angels in Joplin that ran WBC off? It was the Patriot Guard Riders, a very respectable group of bikers. Did I miss something since page 6, even though I have read every post?

reply to post by Bixxi3


What about the bikers free speech?
They are just expressing their first ammendment rights in a Good way.
Kudos Bikers one and all

Originally posted by WordPlayJAy
When we are able to rally up together, some real things can get done.

Good post S&F.

Who the hell would think the Hells Angels would protest for heavens sake.

Among some of the most patriotic people around are Hell's Angels. It's the freedom that allows them to live their lifestyle whether you agree with it or not.

And to continue...

Patriot Guard Riders Mission Statement

The Patriot Guard Riders is a diverse amalgamation of riders from across the nation. We have one thing in common besides motorcycles. We have an unwavering respect for those who risk their very lives for America’s freedom and security. If you share this respect, please join us.

We don’t care what you ride or if you ride, what your political views are, or whether you’re a hawk or a dove. It is not a requirement that you be a veteran. It doesn't matter where you’re from or what your income is; you don’t even have to ride. The only prerequisite is Respect.

Our main mission is to attend the funeral services of fallen American heroes as invited guests of the family. Each mission we undertake has two basic objectives:

Show our sincere respect for our fallen heroes, their families, and their communities.
Shield the mourning family and their friends from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.

We accomplish the latter through strictly legal and non-violent means.

To those of you who are currently serving and fighting for the freedoms of others, at home and abroad, please know that we are backing you. We honor and support you with every mission we carry out, and we are praying for a safe return home for all.
__________________________________________

The following statement is taken from the Missouri member's home page:

Announcement Minimize

JOPLIN MISSOURI

The Patriot Guard Riders are not a counter protest group. We have a very specific mission statement that focuses on our Fallen Heroes that have served our country and citizens. As a non-profit organization we are bound by law to adhere to our mission statement. Violating that could prevent the organization from continuing to honor our fallen military and first responders.

We understand the sorrow these families are experiencing and offer our condolences in their loss and hopes that no protesters will attempt to twist their pain for some media exposure. The best way to prevent these folks from attending funerals is to deny them media coverage and attention. That is the only reason they would be there.

I just figured the baptist church folks out. They are a false flag. It didn't make sense that they were protesting at soldiers funerals. Nobody that is against the war would do that. Therefore, they are getting people riled up to get them mad at ANYONE that is not for the war. All the American flags at the scene is what finally clinched it for me. Now it makes sense why the media is giving them so much attention and why these church people are doing all this. Damn, TPTB are good at this....... That's all right, I'll start telling people my opinion about this. LOL, they just can't wait to hear these things from me - (not). It's still gotta make them think though.......

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


I couldn't have said it better myself brother.

Originally posted by budski
It appears that free speech is only allowed if you agree with the message.

I have no time for these nutters, but by the same score, they are as entitled to free speech as anyone else.

Celebrating the actions of thugs who take away the free speech of others, is not to be admired in my opinion.

In fact it is more in line with nazi germany or stalinist Russia than the alleged "land of the free"

As another poster stated, it's better to ignore the westboro baptist church (and ALL organised religions) and eventually, they will go away.

All this does is grant them martyr staus, of sorts, and guarantee sympathy for them.

Let’s stop for a second and examine your statement… You stated… (((Celebrating the actions of thugs who take away the free speech of others, is not to be admired in my opinion)))

These so called “Thugs” are also expressing their right of free speech. They however happen to be a wee bit more vocal or forceful with their delivery than the group protesting against the service men and women of the United States.

You again state. (((In fact it is more in line with nazi germany or stalinist Russia than the alleged "land of the free")))

Where do you see Govt. intervention in this protest???

This is not Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. If it was, you would see tanks and uniforms blocking the protest. This is the way the free system is supposed to work. The system only gets mucked up when folks try to intervene and legislate the delivery of the message.

It is my belief that our rights have already trampled on and our Govt. has over stepped its bounds in many respects. But to think that allowing the people with one message bark against other people with an opposing message is Communistic in scope and without Govt. intervention clearly shows a lack of understanding of what free speech truly is.

I don’t have to like the message but I appreciate the ability to deliver the message without censorship. Let the Bikers and the fringe bible thumpers as well as the supporters of both groups find their own equilibrium.

But please let’s not politicize this event. Let free speech ring forth to all.

Originally posted by budski
It appears that free speech is only allowed if you agree with the message.

I have no time for these nutters, but by the same score, they are as entitled to free speech as anyone else.

Waaa. Waaa. Cry me a river.

1. I didn't promise Westboro Baptist anything even remotely approaching free speech. I promise them what they can hash out, and what I can dish out, and nothing more.

2. I am not a government agent, a bureaucrat, or a politician. As a private citizen, I am not constrained to guarantee them free speech, or anything remotely resembling it. The constitution is there to tell us what the government can and can't do to us, not other citizens.

3. My right to free speech, as well as the free speech rights of these bikers, is every bit as strong and valid as any Westboroite's rights. If my, or the biker's, choice of political statement is to rev Harleys loud enough to drown out Westboro's inane prattlings, tough. It's a protected form of speech. The government and it's various agents are constitutionally constrained from interfering in the right. Westboro is welcome, if they've got the 'nads, to do something about it, or, alternatively, they can drown out the Harley rumble expressing severe displeasure on the part of the bikers. That is their right.

Whining about "free speech", without a firm grasp on what it actually IS, or how it's supposed to work, is almost enough to give a free man a dose of the hives.

If you want to whine about constitutionally protected free speech, direct your ire at governmental entities to which the constraint applies. It appears that they really didn't interfere with anyone's rights in this case, though.

Celebrating the actions of thugs who take away the free speech of others, is not to be admired in my opinion.

No one "took away" the free speech of anyone. They could still speak as freely as they like. They just couldn't be heard.

In fact it is more in line with nazi germany or stalinist Russia than the alleged "land of the free"

No, just... NO.

In both Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, the danger of the abrogation of rights, and the quelling of free speech, came from the GOVERNMENTS involved, not by another group of the People exercising THEIR rights of free expression.

NOT the same thing, AT ALL.

As another poster stated, it's better to ignore the westboro baptist church (and ALL organised religions) and eventually, they will go away.

All this does is grant them martyr staus, of sorts, and guarantee sympathy for them.

Again, no, just... NO. It doesn't grant them "martyr status" - they seem to still be breathing, loathsome as that may be. Martyrs are all, to a man, DEAD. That's how they become martyrs. What it does is give them a "martyr complex", which is a mental problem and, I might add, it sounds like a personal problem to me.

Always with the free speech crap. It's simple. They completely have the right to say what they want, we all know this. But, we also have a right to respond to what they say. If someone is sitting there verbally abusing you, are you going to sit there and take it or are you going to tell them to shut the ef up?

I'm pretty sure you're not going to sit there and take it.

Originally posted by budski

What I see is one group bullying another, after the first group had gone to the trouble of abiding by the law regarding a "peacefull" protest, whereas the 2nd group decided to throw their weight around and intimidate, with threats of violence.

If that's "democracy" in action, then I want no part of it - oh wait, that IS the US version of "democracy"

"Democracy" is mob rule. I want no part of it in my government, either, and I would guess that most Americans don't, which is why we don't have a democracy over here. What we were delivered at the ratification of the Constitution is a "Republic".

In a Democracy, the bigger mob controls every aspect of the lives of the smaller mobs, which is what we saw here on a microcosmic scale - a sterling example of democracy in action.

We see the same sort of slant in all implementations of socialism and communism to date. "Democracy", as it relates to government functions, is nothing more than a code word for "creeping socialism in a governmental context.

Mob Rule is for mobs, and should be left alone for their use. I want NO part of it creeping into a government.

Originally posted by budski

Note that the westboro "protest" was legal, zoned, and approved - they acted within the law.

Did the bikers?
No.

Here is the law on the matter, for your edification:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Source

I saw NO congress critters there. None. The requirements of "zoning" and "Free Speech Zones" are themselves unconstitutional, as they are government interfering in the right of free expression. What you claim here is that Westboro is in compliance with an illegal law.

Great.

Furthermore, there is no provision of the law as here set forth that the bikers violated.

So, YES, the bikers DID act within the law.

Originally posted by katndew
I just figured the baptist church folks out. They are a false flag. It didn't make sense that they were protesting at soldiers funerals. Nobody that is against the war would do that. Therefore, they are getting people riled up to get them mad at ANYONE that is not for the war. All the American flags at the scene is what finally clinched it for me. Now it makes sense why the media is giving them so much attention and why these church people are doing all this. Damn, TPTB are good at this.......

Star for you my freind.

And kudos to the chargers on bikes thats one way to skin a snake.

I can see this is becoming a rather heated debate, and as a few have mentioned, the laws aren't always right or fair.

Being outside of the US I can't fully comment on the WBC, but from what I have seen, their leaders are far from stupid, their followers completely stupid!

Regardless of what laws/constutions/bill of rights blah blah blah says - HUMANITY will never evolve beyond a certain point unless people start taking serious responsibility for their actions.

WBC can cry foul as much as they want - but until a Judge tells them WTF did you expect protesting at an event with the sole intention or creating scene, their ilk will continue.

And perhaps freedom of speech was more aimed at government and big business? So that we as people, and as consumers can have a fair say on real issues. So that we can not be silenced by tyranny.

One law I think should be enacted though is for any entity set-up to benefit financially from loopholes in existing laws should be brought to justice. These idiots are a complete waste of time for everyone involved and pandering to their needs only goes to serve their pathetic existence.

Freedom of speech and the right to protest carries with it great responsibility, so perhaps its time some of those idiots started acting in a fair and responsible manner.

reply to post by Bixxi3


You are a 100% right about our free speech laws but to protest at a solders grave site,what about the family there
rite dont matter, and what about all of the loss from all of the people that lost everything in the tornado. They have it
bad enough. Would you want someone protesting by you after you loss everything and hearing them tell you its because your a sinner and God did this to you for being a sinner. I am all for free speech but people like that spreading hate in gods name is uncalled for.

Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by OverMan
Seeing how a simple freedom of speech, freedom of assembly issue degrades certain people especially MODERATORS into radical positions where they openly advocate and/or support violence and other manner of illegal and unlawful activities against americans/other human beings is "eye opening" or an "invaluable tool" depending upon one's vocation of course.

Hello Overman

Yeah. I'm a moderator. I act on the T&C's but ONLY if I'm not involved in a thread, like this one. Yes, if someone plays silly bugger in my face, I'm redneck enough to act precipitously. Have in the past, do now and will continue to do so until I'm pushing up daisies. Too bad, ain't it? You have a problem with me expressing my opinion even though I'm a moderator? There's a complaint button for that. Use it, please.

Secondly, I'm not an American BUT if the WBC comes around my (red)neck of the woods, you can expect the same results, RCMP/OPP presence or no.

Hi Moderator Masqua

I think my words were well positioned as my secondary goal was to illicit this type of response from your ilk.
Not a big conformist here either so you know what to do with the complaint button...

Although I may view Moderators as "lesser" simply because I could never enforce such a PC and dare I say a rather Fascist CoC...

Potentially millions of average IQ ATS plebes look up to your station, place trust in your position and otherwise follow you like good sheep follow their shepard.

Your opinion is that one persons RIGHT can be used to Subvert the Rights of others.
That the noise from the harleys should be allowed to drown out the noise of the protestors.

You are also supporting THE BIKERS specifically the Hells Angels who are well known to operate in their best interests more like a Corporation based on drug sales, prostitution, arms sales and extortion rather then some sort of brotherhood. A corporation that occassionally does "good deeds".

I know these people, I was raised for several years around and with these people and I have had close contact (pig roasts and cock fights) and a few very close friends who have went that path as well... may most of them R.I.P.

I was shown how to shoot a .38 at the age of 5 with the assistance of a "brother" who had previously been passed out for days across my little kids bed, unable to move because he injected alittle too much whatever they were injecting that night...
Yeah he was right behind me yet I still shot a .38 at the age of 5!

I recall one night a brother...never name names but he was in a wheelchair, had a 3 wheeler harley with shotgun holsters on both sides he kept asking me if I wanted to fight!, I was 12 years old....he would drink a beer and then break the bottle and proceed to eat some of the glass... he had a tattoo inside his lip that spelled F U...

You know these kind of bikers? If not, you don't know bikers.

Anyways, the point is, you like a good fight, a real struggle as you apparently see the force of the WBC equal to the force of the Hells Angels Biker Gang!

I guess someone has to be pulling for Goliath to win....... Ehhhhh? Ehhhhh?

Shall we go into "sticks and stones" now or is that something they do not teach in canada?

How about we EXTRAPOLATE this out ehhh? ehhh?
Next time a group like WBC will bring a Sonic Weapon and then all groups as well as individuals will have to be part of the SONIC ARMS RACE in order to ensure their right to be heard...

Is there any further need for me to shine more light upon the feeble reasoning and illogic used to justify this sort of position?

We dont like bullies unless they are our bullies, our killers, our rapists our well trained killing machines enforcing our version of capitolism oops I mean democracy the world over.

Yes, it all relates, its all related, its all very relevant and ultimately a wonderful "tell" if we were playing poker yet lucky for you we are not yet please proceed with even greater caution as we are only two moves in and I am well schooled in the four move checkmate...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't know if this link will work, but here is a link to google photos for "veteran bikers."

Link

I don't think I have ever seen a motorcycle vest without a patch signifying the "lost but not forgotten" of vietnam, or some sort of flag, or a veteran patch on it somewhere, or several references to "live free or die." I would guess that about 75% of the bikers I know have served in the military, and 100% of the bikers I know support the veterans.

I hope the link works.

By "support" you mean "support as the government would have you support" not protest with all your might to end these unjust, unconstitutional wars of aggression which may actually save the lives of these same troops...

By "support" you mean by taking a weekend, finding people who will give you money to ride your bike half way across the country and have a drunken pig roast party to raise a pittance for the collective "troops".

By support you mean by saying very little to discourage war, war funding and otherwise do nothing to prevent future wars...

There are no question marks behind these statements for a very good reason.

I will get to your other post soon enough yet for now allow me to shine light on what biker charities are all about.

$50,000 in resources will be used to generate $10,000 in donations, couple hundred people will have a "killer" party, talk about what a good time they had and otherwise amount to very little "support" yet they will feel like real american hero's...

It is very much like polishing rocks only that we are all out of rocks and now only have these dark stinky turds...

Yes, pretty patches with powerful meaning worn by people who more often then not bow down unquestionably to Fascist Nationalism and thus are undeniably completely ignorant as to the meaning of their own symbolism yet how many times have we seen this before.... too numerous to count...

Until the hammer comes down on their illegal activities they are right up there with Corporations and MSM in their ability to support and otherwise tow the party line.

Who me? I am just a good little citizen... making ludes, update! now making meth in my basement, selling it in my "club" to my "brothers" who go on to sell it to your kids and even manage to enslave a few of your kids to drugs which leads directly to prostitution...
or...
Who me? I am like the mobsters who via all manner of illegal activities managed to divert enough funds to open my own legitimate business... perhaps I wonce worked with the CIA and other alphabet agencies to bring large quantities of coc aine to the inner cities yet why worry about things that are in the past as I am raising money for poor Johnny who lost his leg to those NON HUMAN IRAQIS who knocked down our towers er took our jobs er something like that!

Take yer pick as this covers the majority of "real" biker gang members, those who managed to survive to this point that is...the type who do not ride hondas...

I know a few who preach against all drugs now, usually after being decimated by them and even a few who "ride fer Jesus!" after finding religion at the bottom of "30 days in the hole" type scenario... hard to blame them I suppose...poor misguided from cradle to grave.