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Biker activists shut down Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by nightbringr
 


I am not advoacting for outlaw biker gangs. I happen to know several men affiliated with such gangs, and we maintain mutual respect, but they are certainly not angels.

I am only saying that I prefer their brand of trouble over the WBC brand of trouble. I wouldn't want an outlaw biker gang moving into my neighborhood and disrupting things either, but if they come temporarily to keep out an even worse crowd, then I appreciate their "temporary" presence.


I can understand that, but i disagree on the severity of the damage caused.

WBC so far do nothing but inflame anger. They are provocative, ignorant to an extreme and hateful, but they come into town, do their thing and leave. Yes people get their back bent out of shape and might lose a nights sleep over their hateful messages, but thats it.

The outlaw bikers ruin lives. When they moved into my area of town years ago, they managed to get all the local youth gangs to go around and clean up the graffiti they tagged everywhere. People were happy, and at first things seemed better. There was less gangs on the streets. But a couple years on, houses started to fall into decay and crime in the area was up. On street corners you could now see the gangs back, but they were answering directly to the outlaws. They were dealing "cleaner" coc aine and meth than what the city had seen before, and addicts were popping up all over.

WBC hurts peoples feelings. Outlaw bikers ruin lives and communities.




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by nightbringr
 


I am not advoacting for outlaw biker gangs. I happen to know several men affiliated with such gangs, and we maintain mutual respect, but they are certainly not angels.

I am only saying that I prefer their brand of trouble over the WBC brand of trouble. I wouldn't want an outlaw biker gang moving into my neighborhood and disrupting things either, but if they come temporarily to keep out an even worse crowd, then I appreciate their "temporary" presence.


I can understand that, but i disagree on the severity of the damage caused.

WBC so far do nothing but inflame anger. They are provocative, ignorant to an extreme and hateful, but they come into town, do their thing and leave. Yes people get their back bent out of shape and might lose a nights sleep over their hateful messages, but thats it.

The outlaw bikers ruin lives. When they moved into my area of town years ago, they managed to get all the local youth gangs to go around and clean up the graffiti they tagged everywhere. People were happy, and at first things seemed better. There was less gangs on the streets. But a couple years on, houses started to fall into decay and crime in the area was up. On street corners you could now see the gangs back, but they were answering directly to the outlaws. They were dealing "cleaner" coc aine and meth than what the city had seen before, and addicts were popping up all over.

WBC hurts peoples feelings. Outlaw bikers ruin lives and communities.



Oh give me a break, outlaw bikers ruin communities. How about the users of the drugs that ruin communities. If your an upstanding citizen you aren't engaged in those type of drugs anyway. That's like saying a liquor store ruins communities because they have so much booze available. People have the freedom to choose. We have a local Hells Angels in Troy,NY and let me tell you when they came in the gang violence and drug distribution plummeted. Stop giving bikers a bad rap just because you have had a bad experience in your town, they aren't all bad.

I am so sick of people hiding behind laws for "protection" without considering the damages they can incur before the law actually steps in. It's time for people to have some common sense and be held liable for their own actions.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Irish614
 



So, by the same logic we should just go ahead and legalize all drugs, including hard drugs like crack and meth? After all, its not the seller that forces you to buy them, and you seem to have no issues with outlaws selling them.

I agree, we all have free will and we all have the choice to either do drugs or do without. At the end of the day, the user makes the decision to do it or not. This does not however absolve the dealer from guilt. The user would never have developed the habit if it was not available. And the dealers know damn well what they are doing and the problems they cause. They know that addicts will break into houses and homes of good people, terrorizing their inhabitants to steal to buy more.

Do you honestly believe that drug-dealing outlaw bikers are good for your town? If so, your deluded and in denial. Some gangs, especially in smaller, rural towns are known to not "piss where they drink". Therefore, the majority of their dealings go on in other, bordering towns or larger cities. Yes, everything looks green and beautiful where you are, not so much in other areas.

Grow up.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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Wow... equal rights? Are you kidding me with this?

The people at the funeral were suffering, some perhaps moreso than they've ever suffered in their lives. The WBC bullies come to exploit that suffering. To torment them with their words of hate. The bikers come in to defend those who were suffering against those who enjoy tormenting them.

All you people on this site who are always complaining about the injustices going on in the world and how nobody puts a stop to it. All you people who quote "The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." All you people who ask "how much is enough? When will people get angry enough to stop taking it and fight back?"

Take a good look. This is what justice that you seek looks like. This IS people getting angry and fighting back.
edit on 1-6-2011 by thepixelgarden because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Irish614
 



So, by the same logic we should just go ahead and legalize all drugs, including hard drugs like crack and meth? After all, its not the seller that forces you to buy them, and you seem to have no issues with outlaws selling them.

I agree, we all have free will and we all have the choice to either do drugs or do without. At the end of the day, the user makes the decision to do it or not. This does not however absolve the dealer from guilt. The user would never have developed the habit if it was not available. And the dealers know damn well what they are doing and the problems they cause. They know that addicts will break into houses and homes of good people, terrorizing their inhabitants to steal to buy more.

Do you honestly believe that drug-dealing outlaw bikers are good for your town? If so, your deluded and in denial. Some gangs, especially in smaller, rural towns are known to not "piss where they drink". Therefore, the majority of their dealings go on in other, bordering towns or larger cities. Yes, everything looks green and beautiful where you are, not so much in other areas.

Grow up.


Grow up? Really? I actually liked your response up until that point when you chose to act as a child. The war on drugs is a farce and fails miserably. If people want to do drugs they are going to find any and all reasons to get the drugs of their choice. Does it matter if it is legal? NO, they will still buy it. Again you try and use a broad brush when talking about bikers. Just because the bikers in your area are dealing drugs, does not mean other bikers in other areas are doing the same, stop stereotyping. That's like saying "have you seen the new black/latino family in town, it's only a matter of time before they start dealing drugs."



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Irish614
 


Im not saying ALL bikers. I have nothing but respect for the good ones.

I was saying OUTLAW bikers. So Hells and the like. They are not good people. You can put any spin on it you like, but they deal hard drugs.

I agree that the war on drugs is a failure, and actually believe things like weed and other soft drugs should in fact be legalized. But people dont do home invasions to buy another baggie of pot. They dont smoke a joint, go home and beat their wives. Meth addicts do.

Perhaps in your neck of the woods all outlaw bikers are honest, hard working, tax paying Americans, but here in Canada i dont see that.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Nice one, for all the talk about how the MSM can't ne trusted on this site, its depressing how easily some folks cling to the popular myths that all outlaw bikers are crims.

I know plenty of folks with criminal records who would never go near a bike, similarly, I know plenty of 1%ers who hold down jobs, pay tax and (apart from the odd speeding ticket or fight) never break the law.

Yes, some are bad in the biking community, but that doesn't mean everyone is.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Of course they hold down jobs and pay taxes! Legitimate businesses are important so drug money can be laundered.


edit on 1-6-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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We need not be too anal regarding our laws or we wouldn't have a civil rights bill today. Dissidents are a good thing, even when they take the form of outlaw bikers once in awhile. Sometimes our laws are unjust. Just sayin'. Hurt feelings can cause more pain than physical abuse. That's what all the domestic violence experts say. And we know what drug use and sales can do. But I see no 'peaceful' intent when WBC 'assembles.' So I have no problem when they're herded away from designated protest areas by citizens who are actually protecting local governments from lawsuits and trying to protect already grieving people from hatred and more pain. Yep. We ALL have a right to free speech... and its consequences, when used in a manner abusive to the intent of first amendment. Of course, that 'intent' continues to have interpretations according to various political and other agendas. Guess we all have a purpose in this life. Including the bikers we label and make generalizations about. This train's for saints and sinners and we're all both. Lot's of thought provoking posts on this thread by everyone, especially from those I lean toward disagreeing with. Gotta love ATS!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Agreed whole heartedly, and people forget the word gang back in the day was just another way of saying a group of people who would join together in a cause and or a betterment of their community. A lot of times I forget the word has become a dirty one, much like the word bikers its a shame.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Of course they hold down jobs and pay taxes! Legitimate businesses are important so drug money can be laundered.


edit on 1-6-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)


Hmm, I'd suggest removing the blinkers mate, but I get the feeling they're a permanent fixture.



Originally posted by Golithion
reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Agreed whole heartedly, and people forget the word gang back in the day was just another way of saying a group of people who would join together in a cause and or a betterment of their community. A lot of times I forget the word has become a dirty one, much like the word bikers its a shame.


Amen!
edit on 1-6-2011 by SprocketUK because: addendum



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by network dude
 



until they come to one of your family members funeral and tell you they died and are going to hell because gay people are gay. I hope it never happens, but if it does, I'd love to hear the tune change.


SO WHAT? Words hurt you tough guy?

I have not had the unfortunate experience of having the WBC protest my child's death, so no, their words don't hurt me, but putting myself in the place of a grieving parent, yea, I can see how it would possibly make me mad enough to take a life in anger. I would regret is, but I could completely see how it could happen.



These people are just like trolls on ATS. as long as they stay within the T&C, they can say whatever they want, but it can piss you off so bad you want to kill them. that is what they want, and even the best debaters can get trapped by one.


Murderous rage, how civilized. I love ATS, it brings out the animal in people otherwise shown as civilized, white, Americans.

lol, yea, just the white ones.
I have often wondered what life would be like if I was a complete idiot. I guess I will never know. but hey, have a great day sir.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Though I did not read ALL of the replies herein, I read enough to note that most people see their right to this and their right to that but fail to see the other side of the issue: Personal responsibility, respect for your fellow human beings and some degree of empathy. We, you, me, etc are not alone in this world and we need to get along and conform to certain social mores and conventions that govern behavior so that we ALL can have these "rights". The WBC is outside the pale of acceptable, polite behavior that guarantees their rights and honors the rights of others. Yes, they have rights, but so do the bereaved.
When, by your own irresponsible and discourteous behavior, you trample on the rights of others, you no longer have the unconditional right to free speech. Time to pay the fiddler.
Lawyers and courts and governments try to legislate all things under the banner of "law" ostensibly to mitigate the chaos that would ensue due to the crass ignorance of a few, such as WBC, who would not, or could not, police themselves. They fail miserably, as usual, and more injustice is perpetrated under color of law than if the principles were left to their own devices.
There is law, there is justice and there is right. They are rarely in line anymore and, unless forced, I try to do what I believe is right. So, WBC, come on down and foment your crap at my loved one's funeral. Just be sure your health insurance is current because you shall reap what you sow!!!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


Blinders you mean?

Perhaps all the Hells in your neck of the woods are choir boys, but around here i can certainly assure you that no, they are not.

Perhaps other "outlaw" biker gangs have gone the straight and narrow, but the Hells certainly have not. You might honestly believe in your heart and soul they are good people, but your simply wrong.

A little example from Wikipedia. I can post many, MANY more sources if you like showing their true face, but of course you will state its simply the MSM painting them in a bad light. Perhaps the NWO has targetted them, or some other such conspiracy theory nonesense.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by OverMan
 


Obvious huh?

But then again, how many do you find that contemplate not just the consequences of their lifetime but look beyond that to see what kind of precedents are being set? It's like we continuously regress...

Thank you!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


I hate that you don't get to see the other side of the biker group. I was in Myrtle beach two weeks ago during the bike fest, and the crowd that goes to that is a completely different breed. They look just like bikers, wear leather, have tattoos, look mean, but they are mostly business men, or regular guys who happen to enjoy riding. Some have affiliation to groups, but these guys and girls are nice people and as regular (once you get to know them) as anyone. The only thing I noticed is the hot women tend to have tighter cloths that reveal a bit more than usual. Not that I am complaining.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Blinkers, blinders, same things, you have to remember that we are separated by a common language.

I don't need to Wiki about outlaw clubs, mate. I judge people on how they act and how they treat me. I've only met good people at the local clubhouse and at big rallies. Sure, if you act like an ass in the world of outlaw clubs, then you'll get mote trouble than you can handle. The flip side is that you always know where you stand, there's no two faced bitching like you get in straight society, it is what it is.

Anyhow, just cos some crims ride bikes, doesn't mean all bikers are crims (and I include 1% clubs in that statement).
You need to stop believing everything you see on Gangland and go back to making proper judgements on individuals.

A closed mind is a very sad thing, a prejudiced one, even more so.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by SprocketUK
 


I understand completely that you think they are nice. Ive talked to bikers before that are polite, well mannered and very well spoken. They have wives, children and good jobs.

Behind the scene they are lining their pockets with the proceeds of crimes they get their street level gangs to do for them.

If being polite was everything then yes, i could agree. But you need to realize that some of the worlds most evil people could talk the talk and walk the walk.

Again you and the poster directly before you seem to think im labeling ALL bikers like this. IM NOT! Im talking specifically of Hells and the gangs they war with.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


When you are talking specifically of the Outlaw gangs, I agree with you. I still like a lot of the guys, but their main source of income for the club is crime-related.

Still, many could say the main source of income for the government, or the big Pharma, or the oil industry is all crime-related as well.

I do agree though, with outlaw biker gangs comes drugs and weapons and crime. I still prefer them to WBC.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Mate, I know, and again you are dead wrong.
I'm not talking about a bunch of chartered accountants who all bought Dynaglides when they hit 40.
I'm talking about blokes that have been into bikes their whole lives and joined backpatch clubs.
You are tarring the whole outlaw mc scene with the same brush, and its simply bollox.

The big four have had problems with the law, but simply belonging to a club or being an associate, does not mean you are a criminal.

Like I said before, MSM can't be trusted, no one wants to read about a bunch of blokes getting drunk and lying about how fast they ride and ribbing each other over the state of their bikes. That is the reality of an outlaw motorcycle club, not divvying out thousands of pounds of organised crime money each week.



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