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Biker activists shut down Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


I understand you wanting to protect their freedom of speech. We all want to protect it. But there are other freedoms at steak here. I have the freedom to be offended. I have the ability to get mad and talk back. Hell, I even have the freedom to so that. barring the violence that occurred, the bikers drowning out the speech of the idiots was perfectly legal. If they broke a sound ordinance, then they should be ticketed if the officer could identify the perpetrators.

If I came up to you and your wife and started talking junk to her and calling you a puss, it might offend you. You might get mad enough to take a swing at me. And I would have deserved it. But I had free speech to say what I said. I could do it again, but if you hit me hard enough, I may think twice about doing it to you again. You were in the wrong for striking me, and I could sue you for that, but I would still have to go around with my jaw wired shut and eat through a straw for months. Is that worth it? I don't know.




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by budski
 


Freedom of speech unless that speech will endanger others, such as, this group pissing people off and sparking conflict and physical altercations.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by WordPlayJAy
 



Who the hell would think the Hells Angels would protest for heavens sake.


Yes, why don't we support a major coke dealing group who fight it out with other gangs in parking lots using shotguns and bazookas.

LOL @ Hell's Angels publicity stunt. Really, just really.


See the flags they're waving? It's like a sign saying "I'm stupid". Just like the WBC signs.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
WAIT TIL IT'S WHAT YOU SAY THEY DON;T LIKE! THEN SHUT THE HELL UP WHEN YOU ARE SHUT DOWN!

...

IT'S NEVER OK TO SHUT THE PEOPLE UP! EVER!


Seems like a there might be a problem with the two statements above.


Here's the skinny, TIJ... when the WBC people go to Arlington Cemetery to picket a soldiers funeral, they are protected. It's because soldiers are trained in self-control. When they went to Joplin, there were thousands of ordinairy people who didn't want them around even before the last victims were pulled from the rubble AND there weren't an equal number of riot police to hold back that angry crowd. What officials are really responsible for not being able to control what surely would turn into a violent confrontation? It's not that they didn't know WBC was coming, right?


So much for EQUAL RIGHTS of Freedom and Expression and Assembly... I ave nothing in common with you brainless twits!


For your own information, personal attacks are against the rules here, but there aren't any mods around who haven't been involved in this thread. Just like the bikers and survivors of Joplin, lucky you.

BTW... do you really need to YELL?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
DISGUSTING! ATS'rs cheering at Americans being shut up because someone didn't like what they have to say. WAIT TIL IT'S WHAT YOU SAY THEY DON;T LIKE! THEN SHUT THE HELL UP WHEN YOU ARE SHUT DOWN!

So much for EQUAL RIGHTS of Freedom and Expression and Assembly... I ave nothing in common with you brainless twits!

IT'S NEVER OK TO SHUT THE PEOPLE UP! EVER!


until they come to one of your family members funeral and tell you they died and are going to hell because gay people are gay. I hope it never happens, but if it does, I'd love to hear the tune change.

These people are just like trolls on ATS. as long as they stay within the T&C, they can say whatever they want, but it can piss you off so bad you want to kill them. that is what they want, and even the best debaters can get trapped by one.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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that church is totally abusing free speech and they deserve whats coming to them.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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I'd just like to say that outlaw motorcycle clubs are those that are not affiliated to the AMA. They were labelled as outlaws by that organisation and kept the title as a way of distinguishing themselves from the affiliated clubs.

Just because someone is a 1%er, does not mean they are a crim. I know its off topic a bit, but there are a few posts in this thread that needed putting straight.


That said, free speech is a right, but so is the right not to have some bigot shouting their mouth off at you. If the WBC want to mouth off, they have to accept that others may choose to stuff their fists in those wide open mouths, rather than stand around being abused.

Hell, would anyone have a problem if some klansmen got a kicking for spouting their hate at a black guys funeral?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Matt6320
 


i love bikers, they effin rule i love there life style. hells angels are some of the nicest and toughest people i have ever encountered. good for them! and as far as "ignoring" theres freaks. that wont work there to crazy to realize that no one is listening. if you just stop giving them attention they will just come back and kick it up a notch. whos not to say that if we stop paying them attention that they will start to bomb funerals or gay pride parades? they need to be eliminated by any means nessary. if i ever encounter id galdly do some jail time for cracking one of these inbred #s skull in



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 



until they come to one of your family members funeral and tell you they died and are going to hell because gay people are gay. I hope it never happens, but if it does, I'd love to hear the tune change.


SO WHAT? Words hurt you tough guy?



These people are just like trolls on ATS. as long as they stay within the T&C, they can say whatever they want, but it can piss you off so bad you want to kill them. that is what they want, and even the best debaters can get trapped by one.


Murderous rage, how civilized. I love ATS, it brings out the animal in people otherwise shown as civilized, white, Americans.


reply to post by SprocketUK
 



That said, free speech is a right, but so is the right not to have some bigot shouting their mouth off at you. If the WBC want to mouth off, they have to accept that others may choose to stuff their fists in those wide open mouths, rather than stand around being abused.


You sir, do not understand what free speech entails. It means that you are free to speak without enduring the risk of someone bashing your face because they don't agree with you. Go live in Saudi Arabia, perfect place for mindsets such as yours. You just need to hold a Wahabi belief but everything else you said goes there.



Hell, would anyone have a problem if some klansmen got a kicking for spouting their hate at a black guys funeral?


Oh nice approach there, the racism emotional tug. FYI, yes, the klansmen should be allowed to spout their non-sense under the guise of free speech(After all, it is called free speech) HOWEVER strongly we disagree with them, as long as they don't take it further than saying these oh so scary words. When they, however, go to physical action, their words can be used as a weapon against them in the court of law to increase sentence times and prove hate crimes.

No, what you said should NEVER fly, but sadly it will because the intellectual grasp of the majority is so #king ridiculously low, just look at this thread.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Everyone keeps saying thise idiots should be "allowed" to say what they want. That is exactly right. They are being allowed to do it.

No where does it say they should be "protected" from the repercussions of their actions.

I've said it many times before, but if I go into the woods and kick a sleeping bear enough times, he will eventually bite me. I am "allowed" to go into the woods, and in most cases there is no law against kicking a sleeping bear, but there are some very real, very logical, and very natural physical repercussions if I do such a stupid thing.

Nobody is under any obligation to protect me from my own stupid actions.

Yes, the law should allow them to say what they want, but the law has no specific responsibility to surround and protect them from the natural repercussions. The law should stay away, come in when they are called just like they would for any other crime. Interview the witnesses, make an arrest or two and let it go to trial where a jury can decide if the violence was justified or not. Nothing more, nothing less. Let them speak, let them get beat up, let the bikers spend a night in jail, let a jury decide. That is the part of the system that actually works!



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



That is exactly right. They are being allowed to do it.

No where does it say they should be "protected" from the repercussions of their actions.


That is backward. It's a deranged man's logic. It's like saying; sure, you can take this candy - while standing over the other party with a huge stick.


I've said it many times before, but if I go into the woods and kick a sleeping bear enough times, he will eventually bite me. I am "allowed" to go into the woods, and in most cases there is no law against kicking a sleeping bear, but there are some very real, very logical(as you claim), and very natural physical repercussions if I do such a stupid thing.


Except for the fact that humans are not sleeping bears and humans do not act solely based on instincts. If we were to do so because it is very logical and natural, we would regress into the age of bashing each others skulls
in. You might like that and so would the bikers who apparently do their utmost best to look like bears. You also forget in your little analogy that kicking is a physical altercation. The WBC weren't physically kicking the people
at the funeral were they? They were just spouting bull#.


Nobody is under any obligation to protect me from my own stupid actions.


But they are obligated to protect you from the stupid actions of others, ie. getting physical over words, because you've "just had enough"(pansy reasoning).


Yes, the law should allow them to say what they want, but the law has no specific responsibility to surround and protect them from the natural repercussions.


So the whole, protecting the minority from the majority is nothing that has to do with this case at all huh, alright, thanks for that notification.


Let them speak, let them get beat up, let the bikers spend a night in jail, let a jury decide. That is the part of the system that actually works!


get back at me in shall we say 6-7 years? Then tell me the system actually works, when your population has been fragmented to the point of tribal warfare again.

edit on 1-6-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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All these little whiney babies crying about free speech, this has nothing to do with it. I cant believe grown adults can be so ignorant.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini Then tell me the system actually works, when your population has been fragmented to the point of tribal warfare again.


Excellent point!

Love it.

Please tell me where I can find a population that isn't fragmented right now. It's a global thang as far as I can see.

There's laws and then there's the people that are expeced to abide by those laws. There's a difference and the recent WBC event at Joplin underscores that difference. No matter what those who wish all our laws to be abided by everyone all the time think... crap happens. That's where common sense and personal responsibilty comes in.


edit on 1/6/11 by masqua because: added a 'think'



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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I like these kind of posts as it "DRAWS OUT" a certain SET of people which then allows me an insight into whom ATS allows to "police" these boards.

It is like ichthammol ointment!!!

Quis custode ipsos custodes...

I like these kind of posts as it allows me an insight into how un/undereducated most people are especially concerning the U.S CONSTITUTION.

Seeing how a simple freedom of speech, freedom of assembly issue degrades certain people especially MODERATORS into radical positions where they openly advocate and/or support violence and other manner of illegal and unlawful activities against americans/other human beings is "eye opening" or an "invaluable tool" depending upon one's vocation of course.

Americans who are probably more aware of their rights and attempting to exercise them more often then their TRANSGRESSORS.

Americans who, for instance, probably understand that there was nothing constitutional about the U.S invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and thus feel quite justified in their ANTI WAR yet still PRO DOGMA protestant position.

TPTB/MSM thoroughly enjoy the manipulative power of stories like these as long as the people do not start to think that violence may be an option for taking the power back from a Facist Corporate Government.

The Constitution... they scream it when they use it as a shield to defend their current positions yet "its nothing but a piece of paper" - G.W.Bush) when it does not serve their purpose...

And then you do your own research where, if you are lucky, you learn that the CONstitution was the original subversion of Sovereignty... a light bulb moment!!!

They teach you alittle about the Federalist Papers yet very little if nothing about the Anti Federalist Papers, like it was all so cut and dry... as if it was unanimous... as if the anti federalist arguments have not become REALITY.

What the Anti Federalist Feared is now our REALITY yet most of you have probably never heard of them yet even now few of you will even WONDER WHY.

For those of you who truly understand what I am saying here....
Now you know why all soldiers are taught to defend and die for a Dogma that they are not taught to understand.

Now you understand why ALL THE LIARS on all the MSM channels usually bring it all back to the constitution...
Now you understand, I hope, which truly springs eternal.

Imagine, me, a self proclaimed Theosophist who would be seen as a "devil incarnate" by these religious zealots aka the westboro baptist church congregation... defending their rights... and I will add... Their Well Defined Rights...

"Strange days indeed, most peculiar" - John Lennon

Everything I said was relevant to the discussion if not exemplary.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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It's certainly unfortunate for those greiving but this is a price we have to pay.

The chruch's MO seems to be "be inflamattory as possible within the confines of the law" and then sue when someone acts on them. The fact they hide behind a tax free religion is even worse. They've carved out a win/win situation for themselves.

Though as long as other citizens keep them in check, also abiding by the law, it will be ok. Anyone who stands up for another human in the name of humanity and not money is worthy of respect. And I like to hope at the end of the day, the real humans will inherit the Earth.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by OverMan
Seeing how a simple freedom of speech, freedom of assembly issue degrades certain people especially MODERATORS into radical positions where they openly advocate and/or support violence and other manner of illegal and unlawful activities against americans/other human beings is "eye opening" or an "invaluable tool" depending upon one's vocation of course.


Hello Overman


Yeah. I'm a moderator. I act on the T&C's but ONLY if I'm not involved in a thread, like this one. Yes, if someone plays silly bugger in my face, I'm redneck enough to act precipitously. Have in the past, do now and will continue to do so until I'm pushing up daisies. Too bad, ain't it? You have a problem with me expressing my opinion even though I'm a moderator? There's a complaint button for that. Use it, please.

Secondly, I'm not an American BUT if the WBC comes around my (red)neck of the woods, you can expect the same results, RCMP/OPP presence or no.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by OverMan
 



I like these kind of posts as it allows me an insight into how un/undereducated most people are especially concerning the U.S CONSTITUTION.


Well, my degrees and work experience must have let me down? Please show me in the constitution where it forbids a private citizen from doing anything? As I understand it, the constitution only limits the power of the Federal Government.

Still seems odd though? That I use Statutes and Rules on behalf of the state everyday for my job, I have a Ron Paul banner in my signature, and somehow I am undereducated when it comes to the rights of a private citizen?

Oh well, I defer to your expertise. Please educate us and show us where the bikers and truckers violated the Constitution, and which clause or amendment authorizes us to put a stop to these horrendous outlaws that are insistent upon defending their own communities against provacateurs.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Hmm, I have several problems with your reply, fella.
1 I don't live in the US, I live in the UK, where the law doesn't allow people like this to act in this way.
WBC would be arrested under section 5 of the public order act.

Anyway, who are you to judge who is civilised? And you can't justifiably castigate me for using emotive arguments, cos as far as I'm aware, these people don't demonstrate outside the sec def's office, they hang around at funerals and harangue the family.

Why is it civilised to cause emotional distress to someone (who is probably already strung out psychologicall) but wrong for the victims (or people trying to protect them)
To smack them about until they stop?

This isn't free speech, its just hatred.

And if you can't see the problem with it, where do You draw the line? Do you really expect me to believe you'd do nothing if someone was telling your old lady how she looks like a whore and should go pull a train in the toilets? Or maybe you'd be ok with a paedo group hanging round outside your kids school and telling all the kids what they would like to do to them?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Yes, outlaw bikers have codes of conduct and generally conduct themselves in a respectable manner. This goes to the wayside easily, especially at the bar after drinks. A bouncer friend of mine had his face crushed and had to go through many months of reconstructive surgery after a biker from a very well known outlaw biker gang sucker punched him while he tried to break up a fight.

They also deal hard drugs that ruin lives and communities. They sey up businesses as fronts for laundering the money made off drugs and extortion, which is their bread and butter. They have low level "feeder" gangs do their dirty work, so their hands stay clean, relatively speaking. Innocents have died, being caught in the crossfire. A very deadly gang war between the Hells Angels and the Rock Machine in Quebec played out several years ago.

Im sorry, acting good and civil when it suits your purposes is all it is. I have nothing but respect for the good bikers, but the outlaws deserve none of my respect, and quite the opposite. They are no better than thug street gangs, they are simply more organized.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


I am not advoacting for outlaw biker gangs. I happen to know several men affiliated with such gangs, and we maintain mutual respect, but they are certainly not angels.

I am only saying that I prefer their brand of trouble over the WBC brand of trouble. I wouldn't want an outlaw biker gang moving into my neighborhood and disrupting things either, but if they come temporarily to keep out an even worse crowd, then I appreciate their "temporary" presence.



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