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Biker activists shut down Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
While i despise the WBC and their tactics, overall the Hells Angels do more to hurt society.

They are top level drug dealers and extortionists. In my home town they have been responsible for the death of quite a few people that are known, and many more im sure unsolved. They are scum, plain and simple, and no better than the WBC.



I didnt see any Hells Angels in that video. I am a biker and have been all my life and just because there are a group of bikers, it doesn't make them Hells Angels, 1%ers or outlaw bikers. FYI, most bikers today are law abiding citizens who love to ride bikes and raise all kinds of money for different worthwhile charities.

Saying that these bikers were Hells Angels is like saying that Westboro are Christians.,

And I belive in the Bikers free speech in this case also. I wished I was there with them. The people of Joplin have suffered enough without these douchebags pouring salt in the wound..




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


The thing is though, that without the wider world, our little enclaves are nothing - the fact that we are debating on an internet forum is proof enough, without going into everything else provided by government.

Do we need government?
Yes.

Do we need big government?
Debatable.

Unless you live in a cave, hunt your own food, heal yourself when you get sick, have no car or weapons other than what you make yourself etc etc etc then you have n business NOT obeying the law as it stands.

The only way to change the law is through the democratic process, such as it is, and even then, it's unlikely.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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There's laws and then there's common sense



Take that, WBC



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by masqua
 


Sorry, but that's a cop out.

The law is the law - it's up to judges to apply common sense, not us.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


No cop out. When you treat someone like crap, expect to get it in return. What goes around comes around is the law that supercedes all those that the feds can dream up.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by budski
 


No cop out. When you treat someone like crap, expect to get it in return. What goes around comes around is the law that supercedes all those that the feds can dream up.


The feds?

Who cares about them?

The rule of law is more or less the same throughout the western world.

Maybe we could adopt the chinese system instead?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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So these Biker activists support the war in libya and support the fake war on terror fighting an enemy that doesn't exist were waving american flags and yelling GOD BLESS AMERICA at the Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri?


Maybe they should be joining the rebels in libya or should join the army and lets see if they will come back with an arm or leg.



edit on 31-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


As Masq said, the law can take into account the entire situation at hand.

Here is a hypothetical from my point of view, and I already posted something similar in my earlier thread.

Excerpts from that post...

There is also such a thing as "Natural Consequences!"

The government should never infringe upon right to free speech, but going into a highly emotional, highly stressed environment, and telling everyone that it is their own fault that a tornado struck their town and killed their loved ones, should elicit a violent response, and rightfully so!!

The legal defense is called, "Extreme Emotional Distress." If someone in this environment went completely bonkers on this group, and gave them exactly what they deserve, I don't believe they would serve more than a few days in jail, and they would probably come out of it with a book deal and a talk show circuit!!


Yes, let them legally protest. Yes, let the natural consequences happen. Yes, let the legal machine make its run. Yes, let a jury of their peers look at the situation and dole out an appropriate response. Hopefully that response is very light in lieu of the tense situation and the clear and intentional provocation.

You see, we are practically agreeing!



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Good commentary and existing threads here: Westboro didn't fare too well in Joplin, and here: Rumors fly of Westboro being gassed, blocked, and chased.

Even so, I will take another opportunity to say . . ."Helluva job Joplin!!"

I was hoping for a great response, and it seems it was even better than I had hoped!

I heard first hand accounts from my friends there that the bikes roared like thunder everytime someone would try to speak up. They drowned out the PA system! The truckers trapped most of Westboro outside the city limits with their trucks, and the few idiots that did make it through in their own cars were thoroughly beaten until rescued by the police! There was one report of a hospitalization, but I never found any confirmation of it. The tear gas was actually used to disperse the bikers, but they didn't mind that much.


So you advocate violence, intimidation and terror tactics against those you disagree with?

Nice


You must stop to realize the difference between differing views and having a group that heaps psychological abuse on people that are already suffering. These folks are causing mental anguish more than anything. If a child falls down, cries and is bleeding and the attendant parent starts screaming at the child - taunting the poor innocent little one, saying god hates them and they they are HAPPY that the child is hurt is this expressing an opinion? Or would anyone witnessing this be outraged?

The people that these people are "protesting" are suffering the loss of loved ones, their homes, their lives. Free speech ENDS when the rights of others are infringed upon. If you can't understand the simple concept of common decency, then are you any better than WBC? Surely you aren't that insensitive.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


I know we agree on the basics, but I am saying that we have to let the LAW deal with it.

If we allow the law to become a bystander then there is no law.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
So these Biker activists support the war in libya and support the fake war on terror fighting an enemy that doesn't exist were waving american flags and yelling GOD BLESS AMERICA at the Westboro Baptists in Joplin, Missouri?


Maybe they should be joining the rebels in libya or should join the army and lets see if they will come back with an arm or leg.


Have you ever met a biker? A very large majority of them are veterans! The ones that never fought still support the ones that did fight by raising money and awareness.

Plus, supporting the USA and saying God Bless America does not mean you support the war on terror, the war on drugs, the Patriot Act, or the electoral system! I don't support any of those things, but I still wear my vest with Old Glory on it, right next to the Gadsden Flag, and the Rebel Flag, the State Flag of Missouri, and the State Flag of Florida. I voted for Obama, and Rick Scott, and I will vote for Ron Paul this time! I hated Ashcroft, even though he was from Missouri. People cannot be pigen-holed based on a narrow set of beliefs. We are each unique in our belief system.

In other words, your post is way off base, and I you need to look a little deeper.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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As I mentioned there is a law in existence already regarding "yelling fire in a theater" that deals with when ones 1st amendment rights cause the threat of public harm.One does not have the right to "incite a riot" which ,by the video shown, is what happened. Now I know folks here in Oregon who have been cited for that during a protest. Seems there are already enough "laws" to handle this, what is lacking is the balls to use them. Left to themselves the WBC is doing the work for TPTB, look at how eager some already are to scrap the 1st.
Arrest them for inciting a riot when they are too aggressive and ignore them the rest of the time. Anyone want to make it personal needs to face the law for doing so.Just as WBC should face the law when "inciting a riot"
ie; when they show up to provoke the injured.
Crap I could close their doors in two days just using the laws that stand, but I still think it is a slippery slope to pick and choose who can say what and where FREE speech is permitted.
Since the WBC travels to cause their trouble if the locals "rioted" the WBC is the automatic incitement due to their message and having traveled to deliver it directly to those "incited to riot". All done legal and with the law as it stands and without completely fragging the 1st.
seed



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by budski

The feds?

Who cares about them?

The rule of law is more or less the same throughout the western world.


Aren't you the one holding up the US constitutional law for peaceful assembly as the reason WBC had the right to be there and that the 'bikers' were wrong to run them off? Was it only the bikers or were there are few regular folks joining in the fun? Maybe a few moms that were 'displeased' about their deceased children being assigned to the burnin' pits of hell threw those first missiles.


Maybe we could adopt the chinese system instead?


Maybe. Do you think it would be more aggressive against the WBC bunch?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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People miss the point about WBC. They are not the raving, hate-filled lunatics everybody thinks they are.
Many WBC members are attorneys, and good attorneys at that. Here is how WBC makes a good living doing what they do.

If an individual's constitutional rights are violated by a state or local government, that individual can sue the state or local government for damages and attorneys' fees. WBC's inflamatory rhetoric often lures some uninformed local law enforcement offcial into silencing WBC in a way that violates WBC's constitutional rights. When this happens, WBC sues the local government and often prevails. WBC's attorney members can then collect money for the time they put into the case. This amount can be over $300 an hour.

If you want WBC to stay out of your town, make sure your town's local government embraces them with open arms. They will not come if they know your town will build a 20 foot wall around their constitutional rights.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





Have you ever met a biker? A very large majority of them are veterans! The ones that never fought still support the ones that did fight by raising money and awareness.



Well if they are veterans i take back what i said but somehow in the video i am not seeing how they are veterans if they
are veterans as you say they might be i would take back on what i said.


I know that not all 300 Million Americans are pro war mongers, i respect your reply.
edit on 31-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


And I am saying let the law deal with it afterwards instead of preemptively.

Let things unfold naturally, and then let the law sort out who was right and who was wrong and to what degree, but don't divert resources away from a rescue effort to protect a group of idiots that have traveled a thousand miles intent on getting into a brawl. Let them get what they came looking for, and when the law isn't too busy doing more important things, then let the law sort it out.

You seem to be entirely against violence, whereas I see violence as just one of the many effective tools at our disposal.

Besides, what is the difference between a police force using violence and any other small contingency from the community using violence?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by masqua
 


Sorry, but that's a cop out.

The law is the law - it's up to judges to apply common sense, not us.



There are laws on the books about breaching the peace that COULD and SHOULD be applied. Would you like me to quote some? Problem is, these morons are pushing for exactly that. You'll see them in the Supreme Court sooner or later if someone doesn't throw them under a bus first.

Personally, I'd choose an eternity in hell over an eternity in paradise with their hate.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Well if they are veterans i take back what i said but somehow in the video i am not seeing how they are veterans


Please educate me. How can you tell a veteran from one that never served? Are they all supposed to loook like Rambo or something?

I'd sure like to know.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by masqua

Originally posted by budski

The feds?

Who cares about them?

The rule of law is more or less the same throughout the western world.


Aren't you the one holding up the US constitutional law for peaceful assembly as the reason WBC had the right to be there and that the 'bikers' were wrong to run them off? Was it only the bikers or were there are few regular folks joining in the fun? Maybe a few moms that were 'displeased' about their deceased children being assigned to the burnin' pits of hell threw those first missiles.


Maybe we could adopt the chinese system instead?


Maybe. Do you think it would be more aggressive against the WBC bunch?


No, I am the one holding up the right to free speech - much as America likes to talk about it, the right was originally in the english constitution.
Where do you think it was taken from, like so much of US law?

The WBC are a mere sidebar - the case before us is one of free speech, without intimidation or threats.

It's a principle - it doesn't really matter who it's about, it's WHAT it's about that matters.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by budski
 



No, I am the one holding up the right to free speech


That right is only in regards to government intrusion. The very guys that wrote and signed the constitution were known to slap, and brawl, and even duel to the death over minor insults. How do you think they would have reacted to WBC?



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