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Are China & North Korea happier than America?

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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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Reply to post by jonnyb578
 


I have spent significant time in all but NK. Anyone who thinks this list is anything but utter bs is ignorant.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by BenReclused
1) If communism is such great system of government, why does the USSR no longer exist?


The USSR was not Communist.

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.

The USSR was in contrast to Communism. It was a dictatorial State Capitalist imposition.


Originally posted by BenReclused2) I have no problem with you supporting communism, so what is your problem with those that don't? Is it because communists have no tolerance for free speech?


Evidence for this claim?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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Reply to post by NadaCambia
 


I don't care what russia was.....I was there before the wall fell back in the good old days. Whatever form of government you need to assign a name too.....it wasn't working....lol.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by metodex
Well here in Venezuela we love not finding milk,flour,toilet paper and other vital stuff.
Expensive medication,highest crime in the continent and poverty makes us happy.We are happy being miserable.

And in Cuba, they're so happy that they'd rather swim to Florida and risk being eaten by sharks than staying in the island wich my Chavez calls "El mar de la felicidad" (The sea of happiness)

by the way, i need money to gtfo of the country while i can. Help me


Yet you can afford a computer and internet access. It's a funny thing, Venezuela. You go there and find that oddly the poor majority are happy and love Chavez, and the elite minority hate the country.

If you don't like Democracy go live in North Korea. I'll pay for your flight.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis
Reply to post by NadaCambia
 


I don't care what russia was.....I was there before the wall fell back in the good old days. Whatever form of government you need to assign a name too.....it wasn't working....lol.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



Of course, it was terrible, I'm not defending it. But people don't seem to understand what Communism is.

State capitalism has various different meanings, but is usually described as a society wherein the productive forces are controlled and directed by the state in a capitalist manner, even if such a society calls itself socialist.[1] Corporatized government agencies and states that own controlling shares of publicly listed firms, thus acting as a capitalist itself, are two examples of state capitalism. State capitalism has also come to refer to an economic system where the means of production are privately owned and the state exerts considerable control over the allocation of credit and investment. State capitalism is a term that is also used (sometimes interchangeably with state monopoly capitalism) to describe a system where the state is intervening in the markets to protect and advance the interests of Big Business. This practice is often claimed to be in sharp contrast with the ideals of both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism.[2]

Within Marxist literature, state capitalism is usually defined in this sense: as a social system combining capitalism — the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value in a commodity economy — with ownership or control by a state. By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.[3] Friedrich Engels, in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, states that the final stage of capitalism would consist of ownership over production and communication by the bourgeois state.[4]

There are various theories and critiques of state capitalism, some of which have been around since the October Revolution or even before. The common themes among them are to identify that the workers do not meaningfully control the means of production and that commodity relations and production for profit still occur within state capitalism. Other socialists use the term state capitalism to refer to an economic system that is nominally capitalist, where business and private owners reap the profits from an economy largely subsidized, developed and where decisive research and development is undertaken by the state sector at public cost.[3]

VS

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, and the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate.

Which sounds more like the USSR? Last I checked the USSR wasn't a classless or stateless society



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by Dnevnoi
 


bwuaahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahaahahah.

I think someone is smoking something.

If cuba was such a happy place why do cubans risk their lives to come to america on anything that will float?

It should be illegal to have so much bs in one place.


Job and career opportunities? Exploit the currency gap and provide better for their families back home? Enjoy western technological advancements and opportunities?

You guys are applying a very Western and skewed understanding of happiness. Nobody is saying they live like kings or enjoy Democracy, what others are saying is they're a happy country. And they are.

If NZ is happier than Australia, why do Australians flock to Australia? Why do most Polynesians flee to Australia. Is it for happiness? No, it's to chase money and careers they believe will lead to happiness. Why is London flooded with Americans?

Next you'll be telling me Buddhist Monks are miserable!
edit on 1-6-2011 by NadaCambia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by BenReclused
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


I find it funny that someone who can afford vacations in Cuba would call one that has no savings, no job, no check coming in at all, no insurance, and one who is rapidly going blind and can't afford surgery to correct it, "rich folk", just because I have access to the internet. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that I wouldn't have even that, if I lived in:
1st: China (100 points)
2nd: North Korea (98 points)
3rd: Cuba (93 points)
4th: Iran (88 points)
5th: Venezuela (85 points)

Though I am a far cry from being rich, I still consider myself VERY fortunate to not live in the above mentioned countries.

The only way I would vote for President Obama is if I could vote for him to be your President. Though he would still be closer than I prefer, I would still be happy for you.

Do some good in this World... trade places with metodex! Like I said before, I'm sure we would all be happier.

The truth is:
I feel sorry for you! You would never be happy if you didn't have someone else to blame for your perceived problems.

See ya, Milt

PS:
I'll bite: What's the deal with your username? You certainly don't strike me as supporting anything but communism.
edit on 1-6-2011 by BenReclused because: Add a PS


You have more than enough money to vacation in Cuba. Traveling isn't expensive.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:56 AM
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Reply to post by NadaCambia
 



Last time I was in London and surrounding areas......Americans were not the majority of "foreigners" I ran into.....lol.

Some of you people need to get a job, make some real money and travel the world. Threads like this would be concluded in a page or two.


 
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posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis
Reply to post by NadaCambia
 



Last time I was in London and surrounding areas......Americans were not the majority of "foreigners" I ran into.....lol.

Some of you people need to get a job, make some real money and travel the world. Threads like this would be concluded in a page or two.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



I didn't say they were a majority, but there's a lot. The point is if migration is the measuring tool then we'll run around in circles contradicting ourselves. Cubans go to America, therefore Cubans must be unhappy. Using the same logic Americans must not be too happy because there's plenty of Americans living outside of America.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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Concerning a comment made by a previous member about how badly America has influenced Europe, I CANNOT AGREE MORE!

It's disgusting how americanised kids have become here. And everything bad about them is from america.

1. The #ty food they eat: American (McDonalds, KFC, etc...)
2. The #ty music they listen to: American (Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, etc...)
3. The violent videogames they play: American ( I don't even need to list the games, just too many)

They've become like brutes basically. The manners, the attitude, the materialism and superficiality. I understand how a normal fellow would be scared to approach the kids.

I cannot wait for the day that the American companies go bankrupt and the hell out of my continent. It's ridiculous how Europe with millenias of history has let itself be influenced by the new kid in the block.

I mean god, I even sound and speak like americans.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by Dnevnoi
 


Just happens to be the most sympathetic nations to the NK scumbag dogs! A little biased eh? As if anything NK says can be taken seriously Bahahahahah! They are cowardly dogs who just talk! They have got to be close to the most gutless nation on earth next to Iran & Cuba!

Bahahahahah to that wimp little Kim! He is as soft and weak as they come! His son is just as weak and cowardly! He is all talk no action! North Koreans are lame and too cowardly to actually do anything! All they like to do is oppress people!

So in other words their people are only happy because the cowardly Kim says they have to be! Fact! Their poll results are a sham! Just like the legitimacy of their government! Keep starving your people like a real man!
edit on 1-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by MainLineThis
 


im sure this list is bs i was just making a statement based on what i did know.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by Jepic
Concerning a comment made by a previous member about how badly America has influenced Europe, I CANNOT AGREE MORE!

It's disgusting how americanised kids have become here. And everything bad about them is from america.

1. The #ty food they eat: American (McDonalds, KFC, etc...)
2. The #ty music they listen to: American (Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, etc...)
3. The violent videogames they play: American ( I don't even need to list the games, just too many)

They've become like brutes basically. The manners, the attitude, the materialism and superficiality. I understand how a normal fellow would be scared to approach the kids.

I cannot wait for the day that the American companies go bankrupt and the hell out of my continent. It's ridiculous how Europe with millenias of history has let itself be influenced by the new kid in the block.

I mean god, I even sound and speak like americans.


Maybe Europeans should of taught of subliminal messages in music and commercials and addictive food additives first then.


In my personal view, I like communism!
I'm not saying it's perfect but our fake democracy is far from perfect too.

Americans bash on commies but they never really tried the system and I doubt they will.

"It's my freedom to give 80% of the resources from my middle class to the rich class that won't do sh&t with my money other then find ways to get more of my money!"

"It's my freedom to pay back my life comfort in interest that I will send the rest of the bills to my children!"

"It's my freedom to see the rich and stupid get more life opportunities then the poor and gifted!"



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by User8911
 


i personally agree with what youre saying there. i think the only reason communism doesnt seem to work is because the wrong people have been in charge of these governments.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by jonnyb578
reply to post by User8911
 


i think the only reason communism doesnt seem to work is because the wrong people have been in charge of these governments.


Exactly
edit on 1-6-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by jonnyb578
reply to post by User8911
 


i personally agree with what youre saying there. i think the only reason communism doesnt seem to work is because the wrong people have been in charge of these governments.


Or, to go one further - It's not the people in charge, it's that the people in general have never been in charge or had anything in the way of influence or voice. I know what you mean completely, but having individuals in control as has happened isn't Communism.

The supposed Communism we see and hear about is Fascism or State Capitalism. By definition the USSR, Cambodia etc were not Communist. Communism has a very technical meaning and is incompatible with Fascism. There is no Fascist Communist regimes, once a regime or government becomes Fascist, they cease to be Communist.

Just as a fat person ceases to be skinny. You can't be both, it's an oxymoron.

Not directed at you, just thought to quote you and lead on from your point



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by jonnyb578
so how many of these countries have you been to? how many native people from these countries have you asked about the conditions there? my ex girlfriend was chinese and she says its not as bad there as we here in the west try to make it out to be. you are told communism is bad but its just a different way of doing things. have you ever experienced it first hand? and its not that "democracy" is such a great thing anyway.


primarily we are talking about this list, which is clearly a different level of propaganda than we are used to here, though we are not perfect.


I don't see too many people from the UK, US etc looking to move to North Korea, China etc, can't say the same about the other way- so whilst we are not perfect we are MUCH better than these communist hell holes


Communist hell hole. Have you been to China? Plenty of UK people migrate there. Don't make untrue statements when you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'd rather live in China than the UK. And most people in China are far more happy than British people, I assure you.


Rubbish



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by jonnyb578
reply to post by User8911
 


i personally agree with what youre saying there. i think the only reason communism doesnt seem to work is because the wrong people have been in charge of these governments.


Or, to go one further - It's not the people in charge, it's that the people in general have never been in charge or had anything in the way of influence or voice. I know what you mean completely, but having individuals in control as has happened isn't Communism.

The supposed Communism we see and hear about is Fascism or State Capitalism. By definition the USSR, Cambodia etc were not Communist. Communism has a very technical meaning and is incompatible with Fascism. There is no Fascist Communist regimes, once a regime or government becomes Fascist, they cease to be Communist.

Just as a fat person ceases to be skinny. You can't be both, it's an oxymoron.

Not directed at you, just thought to quote you and lead on from your point



there are few things funnier than a pro communist denying the existince of communist regimes and calling them "fascist"- hey chumbawumba, I can assure you USSR and Cambodia were instances of communism, and resulted in oppression and death- just because you like communism doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend that these communist states did not exist



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by jonnyb578
reply to post by User8911
 


i personally agree with what youre saying there. i think the only reason communism doesnt seem to work is because the wrong people have been in charge of these governments.



It doesn't work outside of a text book, period, if you had robots in the world maybe, but not human beings, it is an ideology of oppression, terror and mass murder in the hands of human beings, so no, no no, how many more genocides must the world experience at the hand of leftist extremists before people stop with this communist pipe dream



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by NadaCambia

Originally posted by MainLineThis
Reply to post by NadaCambia
 



Last time I was in London and surrounding areas......Americans were not the majority of "foreigners" I ran into.....lol.

Some of you people need to get a job, make some real money and travel the world. Threads like this would be concluded in a page or two.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



I didn't say they were a majority, but there's a lot. The point is if migration is the measuring tool then we'll run around in circles contradicting ourselves. Cubans go to America, therefore Cubans must be unhappy. Using the same logic Americans must not be too happy because there's plenty of Americans living outside of America.



Americans aren't fleeing oppression, tryanny and abject poverty so your point is a complete fail- you are referring to quite "leisurely" migration, not the sort of migration that sees people in the hands of trafficers or dying in the mediterranean sea on crowded boats
edit on 1-6-2011 by blueorder because: (no reason given)



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