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# Putting HAARP into Perspective

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:22 PM
A lot of controversy exists about HAARP in the conspiracy world, mostly as a result of conspiracy theorists not agreeing on what HAARP actually does. A lot of claims about what HAARP does seem to demonstrate an ignorance of how powerful it actually is, so I will attempt to put the power output of HAARP into perspective.

HAARP is an array of 180 antennas (and other instruments that are often confused by conspiracy theorists who are looking at HAARP data, the magnetometer is not part of the array that heats the ionosphere) that transmit power at 3.6 megawatts. Just how much power is 3.6 megawatts?

3.6 megawatts = 3,600,000 joules per second. To put that into perspective, a Big Mac from McDonalds contains 2,300,000 joules of energy. So HAARPS output = 1.57 Big Macs worth of energy each second. That is 135,648 Big Macs worth of energy that can be released each day (HAARP typically runs once a month and only at night, though). That amount of energy could boil a gallon of water in about 3.97 minutes.

The high frequencies at which HAARP operates cannot effect the stratosphere or the troposphere, it can only act on the ionosphere. By time the radio waves reach the ionosphere, they are very weak (~0.3mW / cm^2), and any changes caused by them are naturally reversed by the ionosphere within minutes.

HAARP is often claimed to be able to cause earthquakes. Despite the obvious issues with aiming a stationary array of antennas, the amount of energy that HAARP puts out is not even close to the amount radiated through the Earth during an earthquake. For example, a magnitude 4 Earthquake releases 63,000,000,000 joules (radiated energy - not including the initial energy required, heat released, etc) within a matter of seconds (roughly 27,391 Big Macs worth of energy!), the amount of energy HAARP releases in about 4.84 hours. Since the energy can't 'build up', it is absurd to say that HAARP could cause an Earthquake.

As for weather modification, HAARP's signals don't bounce off of the ionosphere, they are absorbed (causing the ionosphere to heat) so energy from HAARP can't be directed back toward the ground, or in the lower levels of the atmosphere.

Hopefully this clears up some of the HAARP misconceptions for people, if I was wrong about anything feel free to correct me - I am by no means an expert!

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:53 PM
I think the real problem with HAARP is that people hear the word, think of something bad that has happened and then say it's HAARP's fault. Even though a quick google search would show its true purpose, and as you pointed out, its relatively low energy output. Just looking at pictures of the device one can infer that if the antennas are pointing up, they would affect the sky, not the ground.

Ignorance is the real cause of all the misconceptions, not lack of information about it.

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:56 PM

Originally posted by isthisreallife
Ignorance is the real cause of all the misconceptions, not lack of information about it.

The believers have no doubt seen the HAARP specs, and information. It's pretty obvious that they just choose not to listen to facts that go against their belief, it's dis-info!

The only better example of cognitive dissonance from HAARP believers comes from the 'chemtrail' believers.

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:02 PM
reply to post by adeclerk

By no means do I think I fully understand HAARP or the conspiracy theory surrounding it, but concerning the earthquake bit, my understanding is that it's not HAARP that is the source of all the energy expelled during an earthquake as that energy is potential energy already built up via the pressure between plates. And that the energy that HAARP is supposedly adding is just the catalyst for a reaction that is due to naturally happen eventually.

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:04 PM

Originally posted by MikeyBones
reply to post by adeclerk

By no means do I think I fully understand HAARP or the conspiracy theory surrounding it, but concerning the earthquake bit, my understanding is that it's not HAARP that is the source of all the energy expelled during an earthquake as that energy is potential energy already built up via the pressure between plates. And that the energy that HAARP is supposedly adding is just the catalyst for a reaction that is due to naturally happen eventually.

Thanks for the clarification! It still would never be enough energy to cause an earthquake, though. The idea is good for selling books, though.

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:06 PM
reply to post by adeclerk

Thanks for the effort, I like the Big Mac analogy too, it mage me hungry; though it seems I can't get
a decent Big Mac anymore so I gave them up (always looked like something my dog left in the yard with a camoflage attempt of special sauce, lettuce, cheese...ahhhh, I digress). Surely you're aware that around here, you could very well ignite a conspiracy now over some association of HAARP and McDonalds! I mean, I didn't search, someone may have already claimed there is some conspiratorial subliminal message imbeded in HAARP transmissions that's keeping the Mickey-D's drive-thrus full,
Now, on a more serious note, what do you think (if you have an opinion) was the catalyst for the HAARP conspiracy in the first place?

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by TroubadoursGA

It started with the claims of the men in charge of getting funding for it (they claimed the research could be used to develop something to steer missiles away, modify weather, etc, the implications are numerous), which obviously worked because it is funded! There are a few interesting articles online, just search 'haarp myths' or 'haarp nonsense' to get more details. But it was also pushed by a book, Angels Don't Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology, by Nick Begich, a man who received a PHD from the internet in Internal Medicine (without completing course work)
. It's not like a doctor would lie, right?

posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:30 PM
reply to post by adeclerk

That's interseting - an Internet PHD! I've read many of the conspiracy theories, I believe there was even one connecting a HAARP facility to a USO base offshore in a deep ocean trench via cable (maybe that's where all the "good" Big Macs go :lol
. As another poster mentioned - energy/plates, even a cursory understanding of plate tectonics and you know there is tremendous energy that does/is building along plate boundaries and why. How HAARP could produce any energy significant enough to effect an earthquake - add to the already tremendous natural energy release - escapes me.

Me thinks: the reach for a conspiracy often exceeds the conspirator's grasp.
edit on 31-5-2011 by TroubadoursGA because: To add

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:52 PM
I dont understand how you can equate a Big Mac energy source to radio engery.

Can you explain how energy in the form of FOOD equates to energy resonated radio waves or thermal heating of the ionsphere?

It takes a very large leap of faith to connect the two forms of energy.

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:54 PM

Originally posted by JennaDarling

I dont understand how you can equate a Big Mac energy source to radio engery.

Can you explain how energy in the form of FOOD equates to energy resonated radio waves or thermal heating of the ionsphere?

It takes a very large leap of faith to connect the two forms of energy.

Simple, calories are energy.

What I did was convert calories to joules (the power output of HAARP is in gigawatts, which can be converted to joules just as calories can be converted to joules).

ETA: Question for you, how does HAARP change "electromagnetic" energy into the "kinetic" energy required for an earthquake?

All energy is the same, it's just waves. Simple science, really, no faith involved at all.

edit on 8/16/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/16/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:59 PM

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by JennaDarling

I dont understand how you can equate a Big Mac energy source to radio engery.

Can you explain how energy in the form of FOOD equates to energy resonated radio waves or thermal heating of the ionsphere?

It takes a very large leap of faith to connect the two forms of energy.

Simple, calories are energy.

What I did was convert calories to joules (the power output of HAARP is in gigawatts, which can be converted to joules just as calories can be converted to joules).

All energy is the same, it's just waves. Simple science, really, no faith involved at all.

edit on 8/16/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)

Funny, when I eat food, it doesn't wave back at me.

Yes food is energy, ofcourse, but it is processed into energy by the body.

Radio is energy, and heat is energy, but this energy emitted from HAARP is processed by the Ionosphere differently.

I eat a big mac, it is convered into glucos and what not for energy, fat stored etc

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:05 PM

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Funny, when I eat food, it doesn't wave back at me.

I hope it doesn't.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
Yes food is energy, ofcourse, but it is processed into energy by the body.

It is broken down into it's basic components that provide energy for the body (namely glucose), no energy is "created" when you eat food, it is always in the food.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
Radio is energy, and heat is energy, but this energy emitted from HAARP is processed by the Ionosphere differently.

It excites molecules in the atmosphere (makes them move, kind of like how your microwave excites water molecules in your food to heat it, but HAARP has a much smaller energy output by time the waves hit the ionosphere). It's neither mysterious nor nefarious.

Originally posted by JennaDarling
I eat a big mac, it is convered into glucos and what not for energy, fat stored etc

Yes, it contains "calories" which are just a unit of energy. You don't "change" the energy when you convert from calories to joules, it's the same as converting from Fahrenheit to Celsius.

What's the beef?

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 10:16 PM

Originally posted by adeclerk
What's the beef?

The nominal content of a MacDonald's pattie!!

However I seem to recall reading somewhere that the "energy density" of HAARP is quite low - ie how many wats per square metre of land it occupies or somethign liek that - it was less than a typical microwave or oven??

the wiki page (en.wikipedia.org...) says:

The facility officially began full operations in its final 3.6 MW transmitter power completed status in the summer of 2007, yielding an effective radiated power (ERP) of 5.1 Gigawatts or 97.1 dBW at maximum output.

Can anyone explain what the relationship is between the transmitter power & ERP??

However taking thos figures - the aerial complex covers an area of 13 hectares - 130,000 square metres - so the power input is about 28 watts per square metre - that's not a great deal!!

And -

The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 µW/cm², tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere.

Since a cm^2 is 1/10,000 m^2, and a µW = 1/1 millionth of a watt, 3 µW/cm² is about 0.03 W/M^2 - also known by the term sweet f-all!! :lol

How this miniscule amount of power is supposed to cause earthquakes, and shift cloud masses weighting thousands of tons from thousands of miles has never really been explained all that well!!

as always, and mistakes in math are my own fault!

edit on 16-8-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 03:21 PM
So, Raytheon, DARPA, DoD, Air Force, and the US Navy poured billions of dollars into a Radio Shack AM transmitter for 'atmospheric research'? So I could do the same thing then with a big mac powered transmitter?

Let's put MegaJoule into context before we solidify that 'HAARP is weaker than a sandwich' theory, shall we?

These are the calculations done in accordance with the earthquake in Honshu Japan

This earthquake released a surface energy (Me) of 1.9 ± 0.5×10^17 joules, dissipated as shaking and tsunamic energy, which is nearly double that of the 9.1-magnitude 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami that killed 230,000 people. If harnessed, the surface energy from this earthquake would power a city the size of Los Angeles for an entire year. The total energy released, also known as the seismic moment (M0), was more than 200,000 times the surface energy and was calculated by the USGS at 3.9×10^22 joules, slightly less than the 2004 Indian Ocean quake. This is equivalent to 9,320 gigatons of TNT, or approximately 600 million times the energy of the Hiroshima bomb.

The ^17 is between a pettojoule and attojoule. The ^22 is just above a zettajoule. This a physical property of a joule. Radio waves are another property. And depending on the amplitude and concentration of a radio frequency can create pressure waves or disturbances. You can hear this at a nightclub. Those are pressure waves emanating from an amplified physical structure. But even so, those same 'sound waves' can be broadcast at frequencies beyond audible hearing (usually between 20-20,000Hz). From this page we can now estimate that the HAARP can operate in frequencies from 2.8Hz to 10MHz. Let's not bicker that it does not say 2.8Hz, but lest we forget it is also part of a Navy project to use ELF/ULF to communicate with submarines.

MegajouleThe megajoule (MJ) is equal to one million (106) joules, or approximately the kinetic energy of a one-tonne vehicle moving at 160 km/h (100 mph).

Because 1 watt times one second equals one joule, 1 kilowatt-hour is 1000 watts times 3600 seconds, or 3.6 megajoules.

Factors I've yet to find is the voltage and amperage being used to push these arrays. We have the wattage, now we need one of the 2 other variables. And within the electronics, how much gain and amplification of the signal do they use? Remember, a 50,000 watt radio station can have a 140 mile broadcast radius. But that is an equally dispersed, non-focused signal. Check over the tech specs on a standard transmitter here and decide how the power factors stack up. HAARP is vastly larger so the math would be exponential.
Perhaps the intensities of a highly amplified frequency have the capacity to do physical damage. Glass can be shattered with certain frequencies. Crowd dispersion electronics use amplified radio frequencies. Area Denial arrays use amplified radio frequencies, and I'm sure they are using more than 'big mac power' to run them. So if they now have gadgets mounted on Hummers that can burn human flesh at hundreds of meters away, I'm sure something that occupies acres of land (and dims the powergrid like an electric chair) has a little bit more punch.

ETA: They also use the technology in Directed Energy Weapons.
edit on 27-8-2011 by OuttaTime because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 05:21 PM
reply to post by OuttaTime

By time the 3.6 million watts of power from the transmitter reach the ionosphere they only heat it with the power of ~0.3 micro watts / cm^2. That is very little power.

posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 06:15 PM

Originally posted by OuttaTime
So, Raytheon, DARPA, DoD, Air Force, and the US Navy poured billions of dollars into a Radio Shack AM transmitter for 'atmospheric research'? So I could do the same thing then with a big mac powered transmitter?

Sure - if yuo can turn the big mac into heat and generate electricity from it!

Let's put MegaJoule into context before we solidify that 'HAARP is weaker than a sandwich' theory, shall we?

These are the calculations done in accordance with the earthquake in Honshu Japan

This earthquake released a surface energy (Me) of 1.9 ± 0.5×10^17 joules, dissipated as shaking and tsunamic energy, which is nearly double that of the 9.1-magnitude 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami that killed 230,000 people. If harnessed, the surface energy from this earthquake would power a city the size of Los Angeles for an entire year. The total energy released, also known as the seismic moment (M0), was more than 200,000 times the surface energy and was calculated by the USGS at 3.9×10^22 joules, slightly less than the 2004 Indian Ocean quake. This is equivalent to 9,320 gigatons of TNT, or approximately 600 million times the energy of the Hiroshima bomb.

The ^17 is between a pettojoule and attojoule. The ^22 is just above a zettajoule. This a physical property of a joule.

No they aren't - they are a measure of how many joules of energy weer involved - quantities are not "a physical property" of any thing - you can't say that a a mega is a physical quantity of a mega-ewatt - it is a statement that teh measure is a million watts.

You said something about puttin a Megajoule into context with the figures from the Japanese earthquake but you didnt' actually do so, so here it is:

The Japanese arthquake: 1.9 ± 0.5×10^17 joules
HAARP power use: 3.6 x 10^6 joules (3.6 megajoules)

So the Japanese earthquake released about 5 x 10^10 times as much energy as HAARP uses.

Radio waves are another property.

Yes - radio waves are a property - of a radio transmitter. It is entirely possible to have joules of energy "present" without actually generating radio waves.

And depending on the amplitude and concentration of a radio frequency can create pressure waves or disturbances. You can hear this at a nightclub. Those are pressure waves emanating from an amplified physical structure.

Called a speaker.

But even so, those same 'sound waves' can be broadcast at frequencies beyond audible hearing (usually between 20-20,000Hz). From this page we can now estimate that the HAARP can operate in frequencies from 2.8Hz to 10MHz. Let's not bicker that it does not say 2.8Hz, but lest we forget it is also part of a Navy project to use ELF/ULF to communicate with submarines.

Relevance??

Factors I've yet to find is the voltage and amperage being used to push these arrays. We have the wattage, now we need one of the 2 other variables.

why?

Watts - amps x volts - and in terms of power, it does not matter what those 2 figures are - 3.6 megawatts is the same power whether is is 3.6 million volts at 1 amp, or 1 volt at 3.6 million amps - or nay other combination that multiplies to 3.6 million.

And within the electronics, how much gain and amplification of the signal do they use? Remember, a 50,000 watt radio station can have a 140 mile broadcast radius. But that is an equally dispersed, non-focused signal. Check over the tech specs on a standard transmitter here and decide how the power factors stack up. HAARP is vastly larger so the math would be exponential.

Why exponential - why not geometric?

Here's the actual radiated power:

The facility officially began full operations in its final 3.6 MW transmitter power completed status in the summer of 2007, yielding an effective radiated power (ERP) of 5.1 Gigawatts or 97.1 dBW at maximum output.

(from wiki)

Perhaps the intensities of a highly amplified frequency have the capacity to do physical damage. Glass can be shattered with certain frequencies. Crowd dispersion electronics use amplified radio frequencies. Area Denial arrays use amplified radio frequencies, and I'm sure they are using more than 'big mac power' to run them. So if they now have gadgets mounted on Hummers that can burn human flesh at hundreds of meters away, I'm sure something that occupies acres of land (and dims the powergrid like an electric chair) has a little bit more punch.

So now HAARP is an anti-personnel weapon??

What you are doign here is saying becxause 1 thing exists, therefore HAARP "must" be something along the same lines, without actually extablishing that there is any connection at all.

Perhaps it is more powerful than microwave weapons - but hte array is clearly most efficient when it beams straight up - how useful it is to have a "weapon" that can be best focused on your target if it is 50 miles in the air directly overhead??

ETA: They also use the technology in Directed Energy Weapons.

No they don't - directed energy weapons aer lasers and masers!

They DO use "the technology" in electromagnetic weapons - which is what you are talking about - not only that, but that technology is also present in your microwave, and allows your TV to work - why don't you cite them as evidence that HAARP causes earthquakes (or whatever)??

In terms of radio frequency hazard, I've seen a guy exposed briefly to the weather radar of a medium sized-jet a/c that was inadvertantly turned on on the ground at about 20 feet range - I dont' know what hte output of the Primus 90 WR is, but I'm pretty sure it is in the range of at least several kilowatts - he had a slight buzzing, and sat down for 1/2 an hour to see if anything would develop - nothing did - he's still alive & well....

posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:30 PM
You know, I'm pretty fed up with the contrailscience mentality. Before you get your panties in a bunch and start with the spinning of your half truths, do some research! So Aloicous the only directed energy weapons are lasers and masers? Are you sure? Really? Positive? In your infinite knowledge, you are correct? Well since you geniuses have done your homework so thoroughly, and have debunked everything known to humanity, let's examine this:

First, your link to the Wiki Directed Energy page since you apparently have trouble with research. About halfway down the page is more info:

Radio frequencyHigh-energy radio-frequency weapons (HERF) work on the same principles as microwave ovens, have also shown potential.

On January 25, 2007 the US Army unveiled a device mountable on a small armored vehicle (Humvee). It resembles a planar array. It can make people feel as if the skin temperature is around 130 °F (54 °C) from around 500 yards (460 m) away

But even if it is beta wave technology, it is still part of the radiation spectrum (remember your 3 classes - alpha, beta, and gamma). Beta is the one that penetrates clothing, and it is what hypercooks meals in your microwave.

Microwaves
Microwave guns powerful enough to injure humans are possible:

Active Denial System is a millimeter wave source that heats the water in the target's skin and thus causes incapacitating pain. It is being developed by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory and Raytheon for riot-control duty. Though intended to cause severe pain while leaving no lasting damage, some concern has been voiced as to whether the system could cause irreversible damage to the eyes. There has yet to be testing for long-term side effects of exposure to the microwave beam. It can also destroy unshielded electronics.[8] The device comes in various sizes including attached to a humvee.
Vigilant Eagle is an airport defense system that directs high-frequency microwaves towards any projectile that is fired at an aircraft.[9] The system consists of a missile–detecting and tracking subsystem (MDT), a command and control system, and a scanning array. The MDT is a fixed grid of passive infrared (IR) cameras. The command and control system determines the missile launch point. The scanning array projects microwaves that disrupt the surface-to-air missile's guidance system, deflecting it from the aircraft.[10]
Bofors HPM Blackout is a versatile and compact stand alone High Power Microwave system suitable for evaluation, research and as a decision tool for microwave effects and/or protection. With this system a realistic perspective is possible with regard to tactical adaptation and the generated level of microwave radiation. Bofors HPM Blackout has proven destructive effects at considerable distance against a broad field of COTS equipment

Sonic Weaponry
Cavitation, which affects gas nuclei in human tissue, and heating can result from exposure to ultrasound and can damage tissue and organs. Studies have found[citation needed] that exposure to high intensity ultrasound at frequencies from 700 kHz to 3.6 MHz can cause lung and intestinal damage in mice. Heart rate patterns following vibroacoustic stimulation have resulted in serious arterial flutter and bradycardia. Researchers have concluded that generating pain through the auditory system using high intensity sound risked permanent hearing damage.

A multi-organization research program[13] involved high intensity audible sound experiments on human subjects. Extra-aural (unrelated to hearing) bioeffects on various internal organs and the central nervous system included auditory shifts, vibrotactile sensitivity change, muscle contraction, cardiovascular function change, central nervous system effects, vestibular (inner ear) effects, and chest wall/lung tissue effects. Researchers found that low frequency sonar exposure could result in significant cavitations, hypothermia, and tissue shearing. Follow-on experiments were not recommended.

Tests performed on mice show the threshold for both lung and liver damage occurs at about 184 dB. Damage increases rapidly as intensity is increased. Noise-induced neurological disturbances in humans exposed to continuous low frequency tones for durations longer than 15 minutes involved development of immediate and long term problems affecting brain tissue. The symptoms resembled those of individuals who had suffered minor head injuries. One theory for a causal mechanism is that the prolonged sound exposure resulted in enough mechanical strain to brain tissue to induce an encephalopathy

And from this link we see the tools resulting from the Directed Energy Directorate

Directed Energy projects typically fall into two categories: laser and microwave. Laser projects range from completely non-lethal targeting lasers to dazzlers, such as the Saber 203 used by US forces during the Somali Civil War and the more recent PHaSR dazzler,[37] to powerful missile defense lasers such as the chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL) used in the YAL-1A project now led by the Missile Defense Agency.[38] A continuation of the Airborne Laser experiment is also being conducted in the form of the Advanced Tactical Laser, which is a Special Forces demonstrator project to mount a COIL system in a tactical AC-130 gunship.[39] Microwave technologies are being advanced for use against both electronics and personnel. One example of an anti-personnel microwave project is the "less-than-lethal" Active Denial System which uses high powered microwaves to penetrate less than a millimeter into the target's skin where the nerve endings are located

And from this article on page 18 we get the excerpt:

HAARP has a unique featurea patented abilit to focus these transmissions into a single point high in the sky. This magnifies the output a thousand times giving HAARP the effective radiating power in excess of 3.6 Billion watts. This makes it more than 72,000 times more powerful than the largest commercial radio station in the United States.

That's because of the reflectors also located underneath the phased array dipoles, which reflect that energy upward to recombine with the preliminary upward pulse.

But Phased Array Radar was 'illegal' IAW the ABM treaty of 1972, which is exactly what HAARP is. A phased array radar. But as far as the 'joule' is concerned with in using 'no projectile' technology (yes I'm referring to lasers this time):

Laser weapons usually generate brief high-energy pulses. A one megajoule laser pulse delivers roughly the same energy as 200 grams of high explosive, and has the same basic effect on a target.

Naw, it's just an innocent flash of light, those pesky high powered lasers, but feel free to do some in-depth research on the complete library of Directed Energy Weapons, and that happy-meal power they produce, that can destroy incoming planes/missiles in a matter of seconds.

And again, you are incorrect about sound waves in reference to 'watts are just watts'. In an audio sense they could be. But in an energy sense (which is what many of these weapons are) if a 120v system was cranking out 200 amps (std household main breaker max), that means a single household can produce 24,000 potential watts, But wait, there's more! if that same circut panel were wired to run 240 vols, the wattage climbs to 48,000, and that is just the AC side without implementing a 480VDC setup. So you see, wattage is not just wattage. There is an amplitude factor involved. This would be relative field strength vs circut strength.
Perhaps you can jimmy the latch on a microwave oven and power it up for about 10 minutes with the door open. That's only about 1000 wats so that would be , what? A tenth of a joule? Meh, it's only 8.3 amps at 120v. Oh wait, don't they warn people with epilepsy and pacemakers to avoid them? Something that small must have the output power of a dry jellybean though

If you're going to be a professional denier/debunker, you're gonna have to do your homework. After all, you guys are professional physicists and DoD research members, right? DARPA has you on their payroll, no? And I did spend time on an Aircraft Carrier. One of the announcements onboard was to avoid radars while transmitting. Their power is so high it can sterilize a man just by walking in front of it, as well as instant 1st and 2nd degree burns. Remember, this is our US Navy making these warnings (well over 20 years ago). That is not just a 'millimeter deep' on the skin. Radio waves penetrate organic objects like they do not exist. Microwave ovens operate under the premise of hyper-vibrating the moisture content (water) and superheating it due to the inherent propery of friction. The atmospheres are made of..... ummm.... gimme a sec..... WATER! You know, that one and only substance that plane exhaust leaves behind. Just clean pure Brita quality water.

So spin and redirect as much as you like. More than likely I will not respond since everything you know is right, and everything I know is wrong. But then again, one of us did a little more research

posted on Aug, 28 2011 @ 11:56 PM
Well done - I made an error - mea culpa!

I wish you chemmies would admit mistakes as obvious as that one!!

So here's one for you:

But Phased Array Radar was 'illegal' IAW the ABM treaty of 1972, which is exactly what HAARP is. A phased array radar.

No it wasn't - what was made "illegal" was

(b) not to deploy in the future radars for early warning of strategic ballistic missile attack except at locations along the periphery of its national territory and oriented outward.

-Article VI(b)

In fact in article III(b)(2) phased array radars are specifically allowed:

(2) two large phased-array ABM radars comparable in potential to corresponding ABM radars operational or under construction on the date of signature of the Treaty in an ABM system deployment area containing ICBM silo launchers, ......

Phased array radars have been used on all sorts of things - aircraft, ships, and ground installations. They have never been illegal.

And again, you are incorrect about sound waves in reference to 'watts are just watts'. In an audio sense they could be. But in an energy sense (which is what many of these weapons are) if a 120v system was cranking out 200 amps (std household main breaker max), that means a single household can produce 24,000 potential watts, But wait, there's more! if that same circut panel were wired to run 240 vols, the wattage climbs to 48,000,

Wow - like I said - watts = ams x volts......double the voltage, doublt the power - EXACTLY what I said....

and that is just the AC side without implementing a 480VDC setup. So you see, wattage is not just wattage. There is an amplitude factor involved. This would be relative field strength vs circut strength.

And what are those then - you have cunningly put them in as if they were important without actually bothering to explain them....I wonder why??

Of course for AC you have RMS considerations...but apparently you aren't up with that yet, so I'll let you go away and find out about it.....

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