Originally posted by ufoinquirer
Originally posted by hederahelix
reply to post by Bob Sholtz
you still make all the choices, its just that you would have always made the same choices.
I don't know about anyone else... but I'm forced to make my decisions/choices based solely on information available to me... be it truthful or be it
total BS. When you withhold critical information from decision makers... innocent people get hurt... in ALL realities. Fact.
edit on 31-5-2011
by hederahelix because: (no reason given)
yes free will is an illusion
even if you're given new info to help your decision, that info only gets to you via simple cause and effect. we're not different than animals or
ping pong balls. we're just a lot more complicated. : )
Hmmmmm... VERY INTERESTING. I had little idea that so many people do not believe in free will. I didn't realize that there were so many
"Determists" around. For those who may not have heard, and I was one until I heard, "Determinism" is the belief that there is no free will, and
that though we may *think* we have a say in things, that in reality, we're just playing out a scripted chain of events. Like, if you were choosing
between a red car and a blue car, no matter what you chose, it was meant to be and that is all. You only *thought* you were choosing, but it was "in
the stars" that you would choose the blue car no matter what.
Quantum Theory and Multiple Universes states that you freely chose BOTH cars, but as a singular entity, you can only perceive existence based on what
choice you made in ONE universe, regardless if both choices played out and became two different realities. I don't have the link, but I do remember
that last year or earlier this year, scientists actually suspended a particle in what is called a SUPERPOSITION (i.e. the particle was in both states
AT THE SAME TIME). It was a valid experiment and scientifically proven; they had a particle in two states simultaneously. I believe in free will.
Here's one reason why...
Someone mentioned the 2-slit experiment. Nutshell: photos are shot, singularly, from a photon-emitter at one end of a box. On the opposite end of
the box is a sensor pad that records where on the pad the photon struck. In-between the photon emitter and the sensor pad is a wall. The wall has
two slits in it. The photon must pass through either the left or right slit to get to the photon sensor. We know which slit it went through by which
side of the photon sensor the photon strikes. Easy enough, right?
In that experiment, the "Universe" (or Entropy or Chance or whatever you want to call it) "chooses" a slit. It could be random or not, but for
whatever reason, the photon must go through one or the other slit; there is no in-between (at least, not yet). So, after emitting scores or hundreds
of photons, there is a pattern on the sensor pad, and as you would imagine, it's about 50/50 left/right. Things changed when the scientists decided
to go have a cheeseburger (or whatever) and run the experiment again when no one was around to witness it. What they saw when they returned was
Instead of the proven "typical" pattern on the sensor pad, they saw a confused pattern filled with interference, nothing like when they were
observing the experiment unfolding. Confused, they ran it again and got the "typical," expected result from the first time. What they learned was
that when the experiment was observed (by the scientists, sentient, aware beings), the Universe had to CHOOSE a slit: left or right. But, when the
experiment was unobserved, the Universe could choose BOTH slits since no SENTIENT OBSERVER was there to force it to **DECIDE** which slit to use.
Think about that. It's very profound.
In essence, the 2-slit experiment says that THE MERE ACT OF OBSERVATION can affect the outcome, that there is something about an OBSERVER that forces
the Universe to choose a slit without ambiguity. So, if our very presence forces the Universe Itself to choose an outcome (and not just cop-out and
choose both outcomes), then we have a power that is very mighty indeed. It is because of this that I believe we have free will, for how can we be
FORCE THE UNIVERSE INTO CHOOSING AN OUTCOME if we don't have the power of choice ourselves?
I also believe that ART (in all it's various forms) is what seperates us from simple chemical reactions. In art, we are as close to the Creator --or
the act of creation-- as we can get, for we are CHOOSING methods to express ourselves, via paint, music, dance, acting, storytelling, fiction-writing,
etc. Our imaginations are very powerful and when we *create* we employ that powerful ability of free will. Sure, you can say, well you were going to
paint that Starry Night anyway. Well, I don't think so. I choose what colors to use, what brushes to use, what techniques, how much paint and
where. I choose when to begin and when to stop. In art, I am the master of my universe.
I also believe that IF YOU BELIEVE YOU DON'T HAVE FREE WILL, then maybe you don't. --In the sense that our focus determines our reality. I have
DECIDED I have free will, and thus it is so. If you don't believe in the power of free will and decision, then you simply probably won't ever have
it. It's an easy path to take because there is no responsibility, no regret, no blame. And for some, that is the correct answer. Not for me and
those of you who embrace free will and decision. Just my take.