T.D. Barnes's (the Roadrunners Internationale) comments on AREA 51 book

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posted on May, 30 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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By the way, despite all this commotion, I would like to say that T.D. Barnes is certainly a very magnanimous person, a very kind-hearted, very forgiving person and a true gentleman and a scholar:

Here is what T.D. Barnes, president of the Roadrunners Internationale (association of former Area 51 employees), said of Annie Jacobsen's book on AREA 51:

"Instead of enjoying a great book that the DOD and DOE families can be proud of and share with their families, the aging Roadrunners are having to show up at Jacobsen’s book signings, not to promote her book, but to set the record straight and clear their names and legacy. However, take away the final chapter, Area 51 An Uncensored History Of America’s Top Secret Military Base is a great book that Annie Jacobsen put her heart and soul into and is certainly one that should be read."

T.D. BARNES
President Roadrunners Internationale

The Roadrunners Internationale:
www.roadrunnersinternationale.com...
edit on 30-5-2011 by Fastriver because: I omitted the most important item. Why I believe that T.D. Barnes should receive more credit.




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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My friend T.D. is far too kind. Jacobsen's book has a lot more problems than just the final chapter. This was supposed to be a history of Area 51 but it is not.

The first two chapters focus on UFOs, presenting the unverifiable and largely discredited Bob Lazar tales as facts. The UFO lore is so peripheral to the Groom Lake history that it could be entirely left out without detracting from the story and, in fact, enhancing it.

Chapter Three is straightforward history, making it one of the stronger sections of the book. Unfortunately it also contains some factual errors that could have been easily checked and corrected prior to publication.

The fourth chapter is not relevant to Area 51 other than to suggest that high-altitude aircraft from Nevada were responsible for many UFO sightings. This chapter raises the specter of Nazis, Soviets, and the Horten brothers, along with the specious premise that the Roswell debris was shipped to Nevada. It also builds up the forthcoming Stalin UFO hoax nonsense and drags the reader through a primer on Project Bluebook/Sign/Grudge, etc. that would be better suited to a different book.

The fifth and sixth chapters are on firmer ground with their historical narrative but are, again, rife with factual errors. There are misleading statements like the description of Project 57 as a "dirty bomb" and describing the experiment as the first of its kind (there were four the previous year under Project 56).

At a quick pass, Chapter Seven and Eight are mostly pretty solid. I have a few minor quibbles, mostly with regard to lost opportunities. Chapter Nine seems OK except for drifting away from Area 51 toward the end, and into some nuclear testing history outside of Nevada. This digression seems mostly to be an excuse to dredge up Nazis again through a Wernher von Braun connection.

Chapters Ten and Eleven are mostly good but still plagued with factual errors that appear to be the result of relying on single sources without effort to double-check or corroborate details. Several myths, now disproven, are repeated for another generation of readers (President Lyndon Johnson supposedly reversing the letters of RS-71 to SR-71 in a speech, for example).

Early in Chapter Twelve there seems to be a conflation of concerns regarding the X-15 and possible Oxcart sightings with the X-15 pilot UFO sightings that were correctly identified at the time as flakes of ice.

In Chapter Thirteen we are once again back on solid ground with the history but, as usual, there are factual errors. We also have another lengthy aside on nuclear testing in the Pacific that seems largely unnecessary.

Chapters Fourteen through Seventeen are everything this book should have been. There are a few minor glitches but no show-stoppers. I wish the whole book could have been like this.

The book goes off the rails in Chapter Eighteen. There are examples of misleading statements, factual errors, and a general lack of knowledge on the part of the author. There are, nevertheless, some great stories but they have nothing to do with Area 51.

In Chapter Nineteen the reader is introduced to some of the wilder allegations about Area 51. Perhaps this chapter would have been a good place to summarize and debunk all of the conspiracy theories surrounding the secret base and leave it at that. Unfortunately this is the chapter where Jacobsen sets the stage for the most controversial elements of the book.

But first we have the inane opening sentences of Chapter Twenty ("What happened at Area 51 during the 1980s? Most of the work remains classified and very little else is known."). She gives lie to this statement by going on to describe stealth projects, exploitation of foreign aircraft, and unmanned vehicles tested during the time in question. There are, as usual, factual errors both minor and egregious.

So, finally we come to the infamous Chapter Twenty-One. After a lengthy discussion of drones, satellites, and secrecy, Jacobsen hangs her credibility and reputation on the most outlandish Area 51 story ever foisted upon the unsuspecting public. Worse yet, it is based on the testimony of a single person whose identity is concealed from the reader. This ludicrous tale, presented as fact despite a paucity of evidence and total lack of corroboration, is a twisted conflation of Cold War paranoia, Communist/Nazi conspiracies, human experimentation, and U.S. government cover-up. It posits an improbable plot to try to cause a panic in America by crashing a fake flying saucer (with fake alien crew of genetically engineered deformed human children) in the most remote part of the southwestern U.S. where the wreckage wasn't found or reported for days. (Wouldn't New York or Washington, D.C., have been more logical targets.)

This framework is then used to set up EG&G and the Atomic Energy Commission as villains participating in a cover-up in order to protect the alleged fact that the U.S. was "doing the same thing." Jacobsen also assaults the reader with a completely bogus claim that Area 51 was created in 1951, contrary to well documented historical narratives, for the purpose of storing and analyzing crash remains from Roswell. I wont rehash all of the details here but, suffice to say, the story does not withstand scrutiny. It fails to pass the most basic tests of logic and evidence.

This insanity continues in the Epilogue. Unfortunately, this is what will make the most lasting impression upon readers. The stories of the real Cold War heroes of Area 51 are lost amidst the conspiracy rant.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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Spend your money on Steve Davies "Red Eagles" or any of those well researched Peter Merlin books. ;-) This assumes you already have a copy of Skunk Works (Ben Rich.).



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
Spend your money on Steve Davies "Red Eagles" or any of those well researched Peter Merlin books. ;-) This assumes you already have a copy of Skunk Works (Ben Rich.).


Peter Merlin? Isn't that the guy with the Indiana-Jones-Wannabe hat?


BTW - thanks Shadowhawk, for the synopsis of the book. I've been waiting for that.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by FosterVS
 


Yes excellent book review Shadowhawk, thanks

I'm sure Shadowhawk can fill Peter Merlin's boots as well LOL.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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It's really more of an Allan Quatermain wannabe hat, but with mosasaur teeth.

It's a real shame that Jacobsen's book was not as good as the National Geographic television documentary with which it shared so much material. Conversely, we can say that Nat Geo managed to pull it off despite having Jacobsen as a "consulting producer" (whatever that means).


On Memorial Day, Roadrunners president T.D. Barnes wrote on his blog, “We took Mrs. Jacobsen into our homes and told her our life history that led to our being proud participants in the ultra secret activities at Area 51. We introduced her to our contemporaries, something that most of us had never done before. After 50 years of silence, we sought to allow our brothers the opportunity to finally tell about the major contributions recently declassified that we, as a band of brothers, made to our nation’s wars. In a domino like effect, each of us opened the doors of others who took our lead in the telling of their personal sacrifices and contributions to past wars, including the Cold War, and to our nation’s future wars to keep us free.”

It is no surprise that the Roadrunners feel betrayed. According to Barnes, “Jacobsen and her publisher completely changed the focus of her book from one of heroics to one of horror and fantasy.” He noted that the Roadrunners felt that, “Our valor has been stolen by an author who refuses to repent her literary crimes and errors.”



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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What a load of #. If T.D. Barnes and the Roadrunners are upset about the way the book turned out they should be upset with Jacobsen's source Alfred O'Donnell, not Jacobsen and her publisher. It was one of their own that provided the horror and fantasy.


Thanks for the summary Shadowhawk, I'm still working my way through the book. I'm disappointed there's nothing in there about the illegal dumping and burning of toxic materials, the lawsuit that followed by the widows of the workers who died from exposure, and how every US president since keeps signing an executive order that makes Area-51 exempt from the EPA. Does anyone know of a book that deals with this subject?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by freelance_zenarchist
 


Professionals and professional organizations are supposed to separate the wheat from the flares, er make that chaff. Back in the day, there was the three source rule. I supposed one source would cut it if parts of the story could be verified. But Jacobsen claims to be a pro, and the publisher presumably has an editor. Thus they knew they were published horse droppings and didn't care.

Give George Knapp some credit for arguing how her Roswell theory was dubious.

It is really raining today on the west coast. I wish I could find my Merlin hat.
;-)



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk


So let me get this straight, the book starts -



The first two chapters focus on UFOs, presenting the unverifiable and largely discredited Bob Lazar tales as facts......


and then at the end does a 180 by then stating ->


So, finally we come to the infamous Chapter Twenty-One.....
... It posits an improbable plot to try to cause a panic in America by crashing a fake flying saucer (with fake alien crew of genetically engineered deformed human children) in the most remote part of the southwestern U.S. where the wreckage wasn't found or reported for days....


This is the part I am unclear on. So she starts off by stating the Lazar case as fact (alien tech back- engineering program), but in the end says no it was actually kids mutilated by Mengele. Or is she saying both are true?

Thanks



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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She is saying that Lazar believed that what he saw was of ET origin. I am saying that there is no proof that Lazar was ever there, and that his entire S-4 story is bogus.

She presents the bizarre Roswell story without questioning its veracity. She has zero corroboration and the tale is full of holes that any real journalist should have seen and questioned.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
She is saying that Lazar believed that what he saw was of ET origin.


Ok think I got it, so he believed it was of ET origin, but she later shows how he was fooled by this new bizarre Roswell story. Thanks for clearing that up.



I am saying that there is no proof that Lazar was ever there, and that his entire S-4 story is bogus.


That also clears things up a bit. I did not question your original statement "...presenting the unverifiable and largely discredited Bob Lazar...." as fairly accurate, because both statements are somewhat true.

But I have to disagree with your more precise explanation of "I am saying that there is no proof that Lazar was ever there, and that his entire S-4 story is bogus."

And while that is not an accurate statement, I don't wish to hijack this thread but would be happy to continue the discussion on a more on- topic thread, such as the Bob Lazar seems to confirm Zecharia Sitchin thread where I have already posted several pages of evidence to the contrary.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by gariac
 


I'm listening to the interview now. I like George Knapp and I'll give him credit for asking real questions, but he just said Annie Jacobsen confirmed the existence of S-4. I thought S-4 was imaginary. What's your opinion of S-4? Have you ever seen any security gates, or hangars in the sides of mountains out there?



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by freelance_zenarchist
 


I guess I have to replay George Knapps interview. I have looked at where s-4 is supposed to be located on google earth, and visually from both Mount Stirling and Bonanza Peak. There is nothing there, or they do a good job of hiding s-4 if something is there.

Somewhere on ATS there is imagery I shot from near Bonanza Peak. I plan on hauling a telescope up the peak if I ever get acceptable weather.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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Of course, it's not just the views from Mt. Stirling, etc., that reveal nothing. Aerial and satellite images have consistently showed no sign of activity in the vicinity of Papoose Lake where Bob Lazar claimed S-4 was located. His description of hangars built into the side of the mountain next to the lakebed doesn't wash. There is no hillside up against the edge of the lakebed. The terrain consists of gently sloping alluvial deposits.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by ajsr71
reply to post by FosterVS
 


Yes excellent book review Shadowhawk, thanks

I'm sure Shadowhawk can fill Peter Merlin's boots as well LOL.


You mean his hat





What a load of #. If T.D. Barnes and the Roadrunners are upset about the way the book turned out they should be upset with Jacobsen's source Alfred O'Donnell, not Jacobsen and her publisher. It was one of their own that provided the horror and fantasy.


Of course they have the right to be upset with Jacoben, she is the author and has a responsibility to check facts. Are you sure O'Donnell was one of the Roadrunners??
edit on 3-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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Al O'Donnell is not a member of Roadrunners Internationale, the Area 51 alumni organization. He worked for EG&G at the Nevada Test Site and was involved with testing nuclear explosive devices. There is no doubt that he served the nation well during the Cold War but his Roswell story has more holes than Yucca Flat.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Shadowhawk
 


Pappose Lake as seen from Bonanza Peak


I only had a 400mm lens with me. I might have used a 1.4x teleconverter. I don't recall.

The thread is here:
View from Bonanza Peak

I didn't make it to the peak because I was losing the trail. This is actually shot from a few hundred feet lower than the peak, and in the afternoon haze.

Potentially you could see Groom Lake from Bonanza Peak. It is close enough that the terrain analysis software I run shows parts of the dry lake being visible. But computer analysis is only as good as the model data.

The hike up Bonanza is far safer than doing TIkaboo. But the elevation change is I guess 3x as much, so it is more strenuous. There are so many switchbacks you think the hike back to your car will never end.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by gariac
 


WOW!

Those are amazing photos gariac, thank you for that!


If you're looking for the spot where George says S-4 is confirmed as a real place it's about 17:13 in part 2 of the interview.




reply to post by firepilot
 


O'Donnell wasn't a Roadrunner, he's a former Area-51 / EG&G worker.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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So did she elucidate on how we broke down Soviet aircraft's flight envelopes to enable our pilots to counter enemy sorties?
Which is SOP of course when ever a new aircraft comes out.Did she discuss any of the brave test pilots we lost?
Is there anyone anywhere who is actually so ignorant as to believe her Roswell explanation?
If so then enjoy the book of fiction and continue reading the LA times.
I'm a little busy with a bunch of liars to pay any attention.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by 7thcavtrooper
 


The foreign exploitation is covered in Steve Davies "Red Eagles."





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