Some More Chemtrail/Contrail/Cloud Pics?

reply to post by windword

I never, NEVER saw anyhting like this in Hawaii, not Maui, Oahu, Kauai, or the Big Island.

You have to learn about the atmosphere, especially how it varies with latitude.

Hawai'i is very south.....far fewer contrails in those latitudes, nearer the Equator.

Don;t buy into this "chem"-trail hysteria....it is a myth, it is a hoax....and, it is bloody ignorant. If you fall for it, you will feel silly, once you realize the science and facts....and, see this hoax for what it is.

It was originally started by a few people, and promoted by Art Bell, on his AM radio show...to sell quack remedies to people, mostly hypochondriacs. It has since been pushed by similar con artists...and, by the gullible *believers*, who lack the science knowlededge and experience to see it for what it is...a scam.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by Uncinus

 

The trail that is an x pattern within the pre-existing cloud is clearly rectangular.

No it's not. It's X shaped.

X is not a rectangle. Is it two intersecting lines you can draw inside ANY shape.

Rectangles have four right angles. Where are the four right angles?

Are you being so slow on purpose or are you really?

If you would draw a rectangle around the x, you can assume that the area within that rectangle had the right conditions for contrails, the trails didn´t persist outside of that rectangle, and were cut of to form a symmetric x.

So are you saying these air layers that would have the right conditions, have straight and parrallel edges?

sorry double post.

reply to post by UrgentInsurgent


I think he was saying the X shape can form in any shape, not just a rectangle. That is why the conditions can actually allow the X contrails to happen, there would almost never be a rectangle shaped patch of humidity in a non-homogeneous atmosphere.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Seriously, you're being hostile. I believe there is weather modification happening over us. Period.
You have a right to believe what you want to. I have a right to believe what I want to.

Originally posted by TETRA.X
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Seriously, you're being hostile. I believe there is weather modification happening over us. Period.
You have a right to believe what you want to. I have a right to believe what I want to.

No one is denying weather modification, we are debunking 'chemtrails' because they are obviously not true. Have a look over the evidence again.

reply to post by TETRA.X

....you're being hostile.

At the Palm Springs TV station, and their nonsense, in that story.

The clips THEY used are all form sources recognized, and debunked right here on many ATS threads already.

I presume YOU didn't upload the YouTube vid.....just, "passing it on". Well, you needed to be informed that what you *thought* was true, in that vid, isn't.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by wcitizen

 

They call themselves extremist pointers of lack of evidence, but they also belong to the club they are pointing at. They have not debunked anything. They blamed my first picture on a regular contrail, and blamed the irregular trail that sprays intermittently on changes in humidity in the atmosphere, yet provide no proof or evidence. They blame the haze in pictures 2 and 3 on clouds because there is stormy weather coming in (this was last night, and now it's almost lunch time and there is still no clouds in the sky, but they are spraying again so I imagine the haze will be visible again soon). They also failed to point out the irregular contrails in those pictures. The 4th and 5th pictures do look kind of clouds, but I was trying to point out that these clouds appeared to be formed out of the haze that was left from the spraying. I know they will say I can't prove this, but they cannot prove what they said, and the observations I made make more sense than theirs.

I browsed the links they provided in earlier posts since I have an open mind and thought i would look at it from there point of view, but it proved nothing, and the content they provided did not relate to my pictures or OP. It seemed like a red herring and that they hoped they could spam those links in the hopes we would all just believe it without even looking into it.

I'm still waiting for the clouds you all guaranteed LOL.

Yes, the tactic is to assert OPINION as fact, with great confidence and a tone of aggression and ridicule, with the intention of intimidating others and creating the impression they know what they are talking about. The purpose is to harrass anyone wanting to have a discussion about chemtrails. Even though, on another thread, which frankly is embarrassing to read, after trying to avoid the issue in all sorts of ways they were unable to explain how they can identify a normal contrail from anything else and were eventually forced to admit that.

Much evidence has been presented on these threads. But the extremist deniers refute all evidence, often without even thoroughly analysing it. What their brains don't seem willing to comprehend is that there is a difference between 'evidence' and 'proof'.

Many times I've seem them suggest people somehow get a plane and go up into and take samplesof the chemtrails. Ridiculous though this suggestion is, it is pedalled often on here. What they fail to understand is that when they assert that what is seen in a given picture is a contrail, the same argument applies to them.

Show them any picture and they'll assert it's contrails, but ask them for the same level of proof that they DEMAND from those who believe in chemtrails, and you will get absolutely nowhere. Usually it will be twisted to say you can't prove a negative - but in this case, using their own argument, you definitely can. It's done all the time. One of thousands of examples are blood tests done every day in hospitals all round the world. They test for the absence or presence of certain elements in the blood.

I won't engage in discussion with such rapacious sharks. However, their organised and regular presence, the fact that they work in a group and the vehemence with which they deny everything speaks for itself, as far as I am concerned. We're on the right path, and the henchmen are there to try to stop people from becoming aware of it. The more they protest and harrass, the more obvious it is.

Originally posted by UrgentInsurgent
Are you being so slow on purpose or are you really?

If you would draw a rectangle around the x, you can assume that the area within that rectangle had the right conditions for contrails, the trails didn´t persist outside of that rectangle, and were cut of to form a symmetric x.

So are you saying these air layers that would have the right conditions, have straight and parrallel edges?

I really am slow. But persistent

Here's the cloud with an X inscribe inside of it. Clearly I am not saying it has straight and parallel edges

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3f013d5a772f.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by wcitizen


How many times does the burden of proof need to be explained to 'chemtrail' believers? Read that whole article, come back and tell me which group is making the claim of something out of the ordinary (the claimant).

reply to post by weedwhacker


Has the atmosphere over Hawaii changed since say 1985-2001?

I don't buy into "chemtrails" as an evil plot against humanity. Conversely, I would tend to believe that there is something to what we all are observing and that IF this is a scientific project that TPTB would have their own children's best interest in mind.

I think between your debunking enthuiasm and crazy reptilian conspiracy spider webs in the sky stuff, lies the truth. I think thats what most of are here for.....the middle.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

How many times does the burden of proof need to be explained to 'chemtrail' believers? Read that whole article, come back and tell me which group is making the claim of something out of the ordinary (the claimant).

To assert nonsense as fact doesn't make it a fact.

If you assert something is a contrail, prove it. But you won't because you can't.

reply to post by wcitizen


I can't prove that a line in the sky is a contrail anymore than I can prove it is a 'chemtrail' or a jesus, the evidence all points toward contrail. You still don't understand the burden of proof, did you even read the article?

Might want to look up cognitive dissonance as well.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Has the atmosphere over Hawaii changed since say 1985-2001?

I don't buy into "chemtrails" as an evil plot against humanity. Conversely, I would tend to believe that there is something to what we all are observing and that IF this is a scientific project that TPTB would have their own children's best interest in mind.

I think between your debunking enthuiasm and crazy reptilian conspiracy spider webs in the sky stuff, lies the truth. I think thats what most of are here for.....the middle.

Why don't they find out what those flights are? There really can't be very many of them.

I'd suspect you'd get contrails like that one visible in Maui when there's flights from Japan to Hilo. Maybe there was a change in navigation at some point in the past? Maybe new flights started from China?

reply to post by adeclerk



As should you, cognitive noobness should also be added there, for those who take theories but SINCE they are repeated by some official source suddenly they become facts....

This phenomenon of trails in the skies is something we did not see before, and in amazing large volume, the air feels strange and sticky, changes the entire mood of the area, alters the weather, and no official sources in governments will even comment since they know they should not.

Kinda like 9/11...

reply to post by windword

Has the atmosphere over Hawaii changed since say 1985-2001?

Not appreciably. It is all about geography......specifically, the latitudes above and below the Equator. It isn't an exact statement to say, for instance, that just between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, that in "all" places on the globe will have "no" contrails.....climates vary, and isolated local conditions vary, too.

Another thing, about the Hawai'ian Islands......You do NOT have much over-flight activity, there!

Contrails (when conditions are suitable for them to form) will not show up in warmer air, or lower altitudes.....it has to be well below the freezing point of water, and is related to higher altitudes, and those lower ambient air pressures.


Hawai'i is a destination......and, any longer Pacific Ocean routes that omit Hawai'i won't necessarily pass overhead, in sight of the Islands. I can look up the various routes...or, YOU can get a globe, and look at the Great Circle paths, between various destinations around the Pacific Rim. To see what I mean.....

Also, for the Inter-Island flights....very, very occasionally one may get high enough, when conditions are conducive, to maybe form a contrail.....but, cruising altitudes for short stage-length trips aren't usually as high as for longer flights.

One example, off the top of my head....Houston to Austin, Texas. About a 30 minute flight, airborne time. We often file for about 31,000 feet (old days.....before RVSM...now, even numbers, west-bound, like 30,000 or 32,000, etc), for top of climb (cruise)....but, you are there, at cruise, for about 3 to 5 minutes, before having to begin the descent. The idea is, higher you go, more fuel efficient, and less fuel burn....and, of course, a long descent from high altitude, is even LESS fuel, since the engines are at idle power, mostly.

Inter-Island flights are like that....even if up at @ altitudes high enough for contrails, they aren't there very long, anyway....


More: Looking at my globe, for a Great Circle, San Francisco to Sydney jumped out at me.....but, knowing the routings as I do, I know that flights will pass either north and west, or south and east, of the Islands.

Here, this is United 863, KSFO to YSSY (Sydney's ICAO code). It actually left Monday, 30 May:

flightaware.com...

See the ground track, in green.....NorthWest of the Islands.

reply to post by adeclerk


If no one is denying weather modification (just denying chemtrails), then please do tell...what are some other applications/techniques being employed for weather mod. that you DO believe in?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by wcitizen

 

I can't prove that a line in the sky is a contrail anymore than I can prove it is a 'chemtrail' or a jesus, the evidence all points toward contrail. You still don't understand the burden of proof, did you even read the article?

Might want to look up cognitive dissonance as well.

Oh, let me put that in capital letters.

Quote by adeclerk:

I can't prove that a line in the sky is a contrail anymore than I can prove it is a 'chemtrail'

and again

I can't prove that a line in the sky is a contrail anymore than I can prove it is a 'chemtrail'

YET, no matter what picture is presented, you STATE it's a contrail, and RIDICULE those who don't agree.

Not only that you REFUSE to admit it as a possibility, EVEN THOUGH as you yourself have just stated, YOU CAN'T PROVE YOUR OWN THEORY....because as you've just proven,you CAN'T PROVE your own constant assertion that all lines in the sky are merely contrails.

Originally posted by windword

Aqua image for that day, at around noon, shows a contrail heading for the islands.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2746171797fe.jpg[/atsimg]

Tracing that back puts it on a direct line from Hong Kong to Hilo

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f3f41ff3ebd.jpg[/atsimg]

So the appearance of a contrail on that day seems very reasonable, given the weather.

Originally posted by wcitizen

I think you miss the important point there:

The evidence all points towards them being contrails.

That's all.

I can't prove my cat is not a robot cat by looking at it either. But the evidence all points towards it being a regular cat.