25,000 Jews live in Iran

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I think the real question is if 25,000 Jewish people can live in peace with Muslims in Iran without being condemned, illegally searched, or killed then why can't the Palestinians that live in Israel be treated with the same respect?

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by OldCorp

 

I KNOW from personal experience, and I've said it many times, that the Iranian people are the most pro-Western, friendliest, and honorable people in the Muslim world.

I have to disagree with that. It all depends on context. What years were you in college? During the Shah's reign many elite Iranians were sent to college by the State to acquire a Western education. These people saw the good side of the Shah and most likely would be pro-Western. After his downfall many Iranians/Persians escaped to America(mostly the elite class during the early years). These people you met would ofcourse be pro-Western. This dosen't mean that they hate the West. Most Persians I have met, are recent imigrants and they are generally modern, intelligents and tolerant, however I wouldn't state they are pro-Western or supportive of the West. In fact I would say they are heavily critical of the West- mostly becuase the U.S helped destroy Iranian democracy.

I have no problem with you critisizing Ahmadinejad and Khameini, however to say that Jews in Iran are subjected to any more oppresive laws than Muslims (without proof) is rather stupid. I have my greviances with their government, although I have more greviances with Israels government.

I was dating the girl in 1984, 5 years after the Iranian revolution. However, she had grown up in Detroit where I went to college. Her father was OLD SCHOOL; when he found out his daughter was dating an "infidel," he beat her so badly she had to drop out of school - I never saw her again. All that because her sister saw me kiss her outside the library. The political affiliations of her father were unknown to me, but he had been in the US for at least 15 years prior.

As far as "proof" of the treatment of Iranian Jews, I'll let one do the talking for me. His name is Pooya Dayanim, and this article is from 2003. I can't imagine things have become any easier for Iranian Jews since he fled the country.

Here are a few extracts:

Several reports on human rights in Iran, including the most recent report issued by the US Department of State, have commented upon the reluctance of Iranian Jews to speak out on conditions affecting them, while others have taken the official statements of the Iranian Jewish Community supporting the Islamic regime at face value, none of the reports have bothered to take a closer look at questionable background and contacts of those who claim to speak on behalf of the Iranian Jewish community.

This reluctance to criticize, or even the eagerness to support the Islamic Regime, however, is not evidence of informal intimidation of the Jewish Community by government officials, but is also, and more significantly, a result of an obligatory contractual agreement between the minority community and the Islamic Republic.

The silence, therefore, of the Iranian Jewish community inside Iran concerning discrimination and persecution is in itself evidence of the dangerous and precarious situation the community finds itself in and which it is unable to denounce without breaking its contractual agreement as a religious minority living in a Muslim land.

While the Islamic Republic does not guarantee the right of free speech and protest to any of its citizens, the situation, because of the Islamic Law, is considerably worse for the Jews. If an Iranian Muslim criticizes the Islamic Republic, he himself can be punished; if a Jew does it, under the laws of the Islamic Republic his actions may legally affect the well being of the entire Jewish community.

A large part of the anti-Semitic campaign waged by the government takes place in Farsi to not raise attention of the non-Farsi speaking world. For example, when some specifically anti-Semitic articles appear in Farsi newspapers with wide distribution, the articles are omitted from their international edition and from the website of those newspapers. It is clear that the Iranian authorities do not wish to highlight their anti-Semitic activities and want to present Iran as a shining example of religious tolerance.

When Maurice Motamed, the sole Jewish MP in Iran's Parliament, was interviewed by the Forward in his trip to the United States this past month for example, there were Iranian diplomats present and the interview took place at the residence of Iran's Ambassador to the UN to make sure that he does not say anything that the regime finds unproductive to its PR efforts.

The Jews suffer from official inferior status under Iranian Law and are not protected by police or the courts. The amount of financial compensation a Jew can receive from a Muslim in case of murder or accidental death of a relative is equal to one-eighth of that which would be paid if the victim was a Muslim. In practice this means that a life of a Jew in Iran has very little value.

In addition, since Iranian courts routinely refuse to accept the testimony of a Jew against a Muslim, most cases of this sort are not even prosecuted and the police do not even investigate such claims. As a result of their legally inferior status, Jews find themselves outside the protection of the courts and police. This is not simply a perception on their part, but rather, sadly, a harsh reality. In none of the cases of the murder of Jews in Iran has a perpetrator ever been found, much less prosecuted.

Many informed observers believe that one reason that Jewish rabbis and teachers were arrested in Shiraz was the fact that they were instructing in the spirit of Orthodox Judaism. The US State Department Religious Freedom Report for 2001 notes that the Jewish community, and its religious, cultural and social organizations, are closely monitored by the Ministry of Islamic Culture and Guidance and the Ministry of Intelligence and Security.

The form that this monitoring has taken is either sending agents posing as Jews to synagogues or forcing Jewish communal leaders to inform on the activities of the Jewish community. This situation has created an atmosphere of terror and mistrust in the Jewish community. Many Jews who flee Iran relate that they told no one of their plans to emigrate, not even friends or relatives in fear of an unknown collaborator informing authorities of their plans.

Iranian Jews face severe discrimination and persecution in Iran. Their future is uncertain. Due to circumstances this note has attempted to highlight, an observer or a researcher attempting to study the condition of Iranian Jewry faces severe difficulties in obtaining material to study. Interested parties must make themselves educated about Iranian law, Islamic law, the Farsi language, the nuances of Iranian culture, an understanding of the collective psyche of Iranian Jewry, to be able to even attack the topic. This explains why so little research is available and why more is necessary.

I pulled those quotes because very few people actually go to any links containing information contrary to their tightly held worldview; people don't like to find out they were wrong, it's just human nature. I would, however, encourage everyone to visit that link and see for themselves what it is like to be a Jew in Iran - from the lips of an Iranian Jew.

reply to post by OldCorp

I pulled those quotes because very few people actually go to any links containing information contrary to their tightly held worldview; people don't like to find out they were wrong, it's just human nature. I would, however, encourage everyone to visit that link and see for themselves what it is like to be a Jew in Iran - from the lips of an Iranian Jew.

And what of how Israel treats Arabs ??
How many, including children are held in detention and what's their treatment like??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by OldCorp

 

I pulled those quotes because very few people actually go to any links containing information contrary to their tightly held worldview; people don't like to find out they were wrong, it's just human nature. I would, however, encourage everyone to visit that link and see for themselves what it is like to be a Jew in Iran - from the lips of an Iranian Jew.

And what of how Israel treats Arabs ??
How many, including children are held in detention and what's their treatment like??

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex. The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution). Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty" and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)" as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[150] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army.

SOURCE

Come on BiB... When I have to pull a Wiki piece out of my butt that a third grader could understand I wonder if you're debating in good faith

Israeli Arabs comprise 20% of the population, with a proportionate number in the Knesset, unlike Iran with their one token Jew. They enjoy FULL citizenship and protection under the law.

If there are any "children" being detained, then there has to be a good reason. With Palestinian cartoons and shows like "Pioneers of Tomorrow" exhorting those same children to kill themselves along with any Jew they can find, there probably are a few totally brainwashed and violent minors in lock up - where they deserve to be.

reply to post by OldCorp

Israeli Arabs comprise 20% of the population

What was the percentage of Arabs on ALL the land Israel currently controls before Israel was established??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Israeli Arabs comprise 20% of the population

What was the percentage of Arabs on ALL the land Israel currently controls before Israel was established??

You can hardly blame the Jews because Arab governments told the local populace to get out of the way and abandon their homes so they would have a clear field of fire as they exterminated the new Jewish nation. Any that left did so of their own free will, they were NOT expelled and they have no "right of return."

Tough titties.

reply to post by OldCorp

You can hardly blame the Jews because Arab governments told the local populace to get out of the way and abandon their homes so they would have a clear field of fire as they exterminated the new Jewish nation. Any that left did so of their own free will, they were NOT expelled and they have no "right of return."

Tough titties.

Thank you then for pointing out Israel does NOT treat Arabs as equals..
Pretty damn clear..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by OldCorp

 

You can hardly blame the Jews because Arab governments told the local populace to get out of the way and abandon their homes so they would have a clear field of fire as they exterminated the new Jewish nation. Any that left did so of their own free will, they were NOT expelled and they have no "right of return."

Tough titties.

Thank you then for pointing out Israel does NOT treat Arabs as equals..
Pretty damn clear..

Except for the fact that Jewish law only applies to citizens of the State of Israel, and not to those who chose not to become citizens. Now THAT is pretty damn clear!

BiB, I DO love debating with you. You really make me work my gray matter, but I'm gonna hafta call it a night. If you like, we can carry on tomorrow after I get back from taking the kids to school and my mom to pay her bills.

G'night brother.

Originally posted by mayabong
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4b264faebfb.jpg[/atsimg]

these must be muzzies dressed up as jews. lol

That deserves a star and quote

It's one thing to believe BS western propaganda but strongly pushing it without a little fact finding or study is ludicrous. Of course there are over 25.000 Jews living in Iran and they choose to live there and live there freely and happilly, just follow a few links in this thread and watch the vid I posted, the fact is indesputable

I wonder....

I wonder if most people that are trying to say the 25.000 Jews in Iran don't exist are delusional believers of the propaganda who haven't looked at the facts and just blurted out in ignorance...

Or...

If they are part of the huge Israeli Internet Propoganda Machine that we know methodically works the internet and has ATS in it's mandate and sights, because such blatant ignorance makes you wonder

reply to post by OldCorp

You sure don't pay much attention do you? I have not referred to Iranian Christians ANYWHERE in this thread (or any other thread on ATS.)

Just because you don't talk about them does not mean you're not talking about them. *Wink*

See this is what I'm taking about: It is the people who accuse me of racism and blind hatred who are just projecting their own feelings on others, even making snip up to "prove" their point.

Not really. But if that makes you feel any better...

And this even after I extended an olive branch.

Is this the kind of tripe you used to type out as an employed journalist? PS. I learned not to be deceived by a smile and a handshake.

If Zamini were to take the time to get to know me, he and I could be friends just as I am with many other Muslims of both Shia and Sunni beliefs; but he has already made it plain that he wants nothing to do with it.

You see, we have an issue here. You are obviously under the impression that I'm Muslim.

His loss.

I think you need to take the time to get to know yourself better first.

Originally posted by Zamini

Just because you don't talk about them does not mean you're not talking about them. *Wink*

CLASSIC!

Is this the kind of tripe you used to type out as an employed journalist? PS. I learned not to be deceived by a smile and a handshake.

You've dealt with a lot of Muslims I see. Sorry to disappoint, but I have a thing called HONOR. I don't lie - ever. What you see is what you get.

You see, we have an issue here. You are obviously under the impression that I'm Muslim.

If you aren't, you do a pretty good impression of one. Care to enlighten me so I can be more accurate in my posts? Or are you one of those enigmas, wrapped inside a riddle, and covered in secret sauce?

I think you need to take the time to get to know yourself better first.

I know exactly who I am, and what I'm about. It's taken me 47 years to get here, but the journey was quite enlightening. Here, I'll sum it up for you.

I don't care if you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. You could dance naked around a bonfire and bark at the Moon for all I care, BUT: If you're a SCUMBAG - I'm comin' to getcha! OC's Creedo

reply to post by OldCorp

CLASSIC!

Bet you don't even know what I'm talking about. AH well, wouldn't be the first time.

You've dealt with a lot of Muslims I see. Sorry to disappoint, but I have a thing called HONOR. I don't lie - ever. What you see is what you get.

Just remember the bits I underline yeah...

PS. "What you see is what you get" is marketing language. Are you trying to market yourself to a public?

If you aren't, you do a pretty good impression of one. Care to enlighten me so I can be more accurate in my posts? Or are you one of those enigmas, wrapped inside a riddle, and covered in secret sauce?

Of "one"? I simply am not a Muslim. Has nothing to do with a riddle or enigmas or whichever way you try to spin it, I'm what they call a FREE thinker. Unlike yourself. People like me have had to hide from persecution from people LIKE YOU for centuries on end, because you are so #king stupid you would kill that which you have no grasp of.

I don't care if you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. You could dance naked around a bonfire and bark at the Moon for all I care, BUT: If you're a SCUMBAG - I'm comin' to getcha! OC's Creedo

You see the first underlined bit where you imply that all Muslims are liars and deceiving.

The second underlined bit will reflect on the third underlined bit where you say I do an impression of a Muslim? As if you have a picture of this Muslim in your head you can't lose - fyi that is harmful to your mental health.

And of course, to not make yourself look like bigot you put that last bit in it. Too bad it won't work for you.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by OldCorp

 

CLASSIC!

Bet you don't even know what I'm talking about. AH well, wouldn't be the first time.

You've dealt with a lot of Muslims I see. Sorry to disappoint, but I have a thing called HONOR. I don't lie - ever. What you see is what you get.

Just remember the bits I underline yeah...

PS. "What you see is what you get" is marketing language. Are you trying to market yourself to a public?

If you aren't, you do a pretty good impression of one. Care to enlighten me so I can be more accurate in my posts? Or are you one of those enigmas, wrapped inside a riddle, and covered in secret sauce?

Of "one"? I simply am not a Muslim. Has nothing to do with a riddle or enigmas or whichever way you try to spin it, I'm what they call a FREE thinker. Unlike yourself. People like me have had to hide from persecution from people LIKE YOU for centuries on end, because you are so #king stupid you would kill that which you have no grasp of.

I don't care if you're a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Atheist. You could dance naked around a bonfire and bark at the Moon for all I care, BUT: If you're a SCUMBAG - I'm comin' to getcha! OC's Creedo

You see the first underlined bit where you imply that all Muslims are liars and deceiving.

The second underlined bit will reflect on the third underlined bit where you say I do an impression of a Muslim? As if you have a picture of this Muslim in your head you can't lose - fyi that is harmful to your mental health.

And of course, to not make yourself look like bigot you put that last bit in it. Too bad it won't work for you.

Boy, are you on a FAIL ROLL today!

See THIS POST for proof.

Wha, wah, whawha! Whaaaaaaa!

Sorry for off topic post,but I dont think it matters the way this thread has gone. I smell a self righteous biblethumper preaching angrily and claiming their worldview is the right one lol. I normally dont like to post like this but the quality of threads lately... lol especially the fanatical posts by people who think the world's problems are solely due to lack of organized religion. Good day

Stupidity lead to the deterioration of this thread. Instead of being an open discussion of Jewish people in Iran, this thread has boiled down to personal attacks and a virtual D**K measuring contest. neither side has put forth valid information in supporting their claims. what a shame.

As for Jews in Iran I have no doubts there are some. I just doubt that they are free. here's some Questions for you guys. How can Jews be allowed to live freely and be protected under the law when the Muslim people are not allowed to live freely? Regardless of being Jewish or Muslim neither of them live free in Iran.

Do they have Freedom? Hell No. They don't even have the Illusion of Freedom that we do.

Do they have Freedom of speech? They're free to speak their mind as long as it is approved by the government.

Do they have Freedom of press?

From the looks of the Video I'd have to say no.(Notice how the guy in the video talks about being raped. Video in the link below has more claims of Iranian police raping inmates.)

The Jews in Iran are being oppressed, tortured, murdered, silenced and Victimized in all ways possible. you might be asking how I know this, well because it's the same way Muslim Iranians are being treated.

Description of the video lifted from C-Span.

Iranian dissidents talked about humans rights violations by the Iranian government in the year since Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad re-election for a second term. Topics included governmental hacking of opposition web sites, attacks against women and other activists, the number of people still in jail following the previous year's protests...

C-Span Video
Excerpts from the Video.

...YOU TYPE THE WORD WOMAN IN FARSI IN GOOGLE, IN IRAN, IT BLOCKS YOU. IF YOU TYPE FREEDOM, IN FARSI, AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BLOCK YOU....

...prisoners spoke to harsh conditions and there was a first hand account about torture and rape from a prisoner that was sitting there in as cast...

"Iran's gross violations of human rights are not a new phenomena. In only the past fourteen months at least 78,942 violations have been recorded by my organization alone..." -Sariri Shaheen

You should really watch the video. it's full of info.

The oppression, torture, and silencing of the Muslim Iranians is disturbing and disgusting. Yet you expect us to believe that the Jews in Iran are treated peacefully and compassionately? I doubt they get treated as 'Fairly' as Muslim Iranians given the rampant Antisemitism in the Government at large.(Notice Fairly is in quotations)

One quick question do the Iranian Jews have to pay Jizya? that would mean they are 2nd class citizens. I'd hate to see what that's like considering how 1st class citizens are treated in Iran.

For those of you who say that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not Antisemitic only Anti-Zionism I'll leave you with

"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking Antisemitism." -Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe that Quote should be disregarded we all know what a hate mongering bigot MLK was.

reply to post by Poker

The Jews in Iran are being oppressed, tortured, murdered, silenced and Victimized in all ways possible. you might be asking how I know this, well because it's the same way Muslim Iranians are being treated.

If that were true Israel would be screaming and have it daily on the news..
Their silence tells me all is well..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Poker

 

The Jews in Iran are being oppressed, tortured, murdered, silenced and Victimized in all ways possible. you might be asking how I know this, well because it's the same way Muslim Iranians are being treated.

If that were true Israel would be screaming and have it daily on the news..
Their silence tells me all is well..

So you have no thoughts on how the Iranian citizens as a whole are being treated, you said that the Jews in Iran get the same treatment of Muslims in Iran. Well the Muslims get Victimized in all the ways I listed, so it's fair to say that the Jews get their fare share of this treatment if not more.

I feel sorry for you.

If your Iranian or Muslim you should be outraged by the way your people are being victimized by the regime in Iran. You're so blinded by your hatred of Israel that instead of standing up for the rights of the citizens of Iran. you're justifying the crimes that the Iranian government is doing by saying well Israel is doing it to.

Even if Israel were committing such crimes, why would "well they're doing it too" be a good excuse for the human rights violations committed by Iran? Wouldn't both states need to change? I hope you're not too blind to see that.

Just to be clear, I do not believe that Israel is committing such crimes. With that being said let me also state. no country is without blood on its hands, even my own. All countries at one time or another have done evils things because of evil men being in power.

By the way instead of nitpicking at my posts try responding to them as a whole that would be better for me to understand exactly where you're coming from.

reply to post by Poker


Actually, Iran doesn't persecute Jews or Muslims because they are Jewish, they are persecuted because of political activity against the regime. So you might as well throw that whole argument out the window because it is not religious persecution. The Baha'i and Sufi suffer more at the hands of persecution than the Jewish minority.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Poker

 

Actually, Iran doesn't persecute Jews or Muslims because they are Jewish, they are persecuted because of political activity against the regime. So you might as well throw that whole argument out the window because it is not religious persecution. The Baha'i and Sufi suffer more at the hands of persecution than the Jewish minority.

Did you even read my post I never said that they were victimized solely because they're Jewish,I said that both the Muslims and Jews get persecuted by the Iranian government. I do how ever believe that Jews get more than there 'fair' share due to the antisemitism in the government and in the media propaganda.

The Baha'i and Sufi suffer more at the hands of persecution than the Jewish minority

I believe that could be true I've seen reports about power struggles and bloodshed between different factions of Islam.

reply to post by Poker

Did you even read my post I never said that they were victimized solely because they're Jewish,

Then the whole "Jewish" thing is thrown out the window.

I said that both the Muslims and Jews get persecuted by the Iranian government. I do how ever believe that Jews get more than there 'fair' share due to the antisemitism in the government and in the media propaganda.

There is an Iranian Jew in the Iranian parliament. Instead of whining and crying about the Jewish population in Iran(who overall have access to plenty resources) and their political persecution(not religious) you should whine about the lack of females in high positions. You should cry foul when they shell a Sufi temple or imprison Baha'i(even though this latter religion has its roots in political circles).

Focusing on the "Jewish" aspect makes you seem like some sort of spreader of false information.

Anti-semitism in the government? I bet that more people in the Iranian parliament have Semitic and Arab roots than they have Iranian roots. It's a ruse, a game, the whole Netanyahu vs. Ahmadinejad, it's a trick being played on the people in order to maintain a perpetual war.