Lee Bowers - A Murdered Witness

reply to post by Rising Against


Hi Rising Against

I will always be lurking around a JFK thread!

Thanks for the video. I do find the Daltex building and the Jim Braden theory quite a compelling one. I will not bang on about it here as it is not the place. Bring on the Daltex thread!

I like Bob Harris' site. He makes some good points and has some reasoned arguments. The more credible information that is out there the better.

It maddens me that the JFK case has not been reopened.
It has been officially classed as a conspiracy by persons unknown.
That is not good enough.


I am all for the LBJ theory too. Box 13, Billy Sol Estes, Malcolm Wallace. It is very suspicious.

Looking forward to more threads.....

Cheers

I haven't heard of him before now, thanks. Haven't had a chance to go through just yet, this comment will help me not forget to check it out later

reply to post by JimmyJim


I think I've touch on the people involved and motives on this thread, but I go into more detail on a different thread. I think its called " JFK was assasinated by the Bush family and Johnson was in on it".. I didn't start the thread as I didn't start this thread. But I had a pretty in depth response on that thread on page 2 I think... Anyway, I don't want to flood this thread with that large post so I'm not copying it here....As I've said before, if people have more in depth questions that may take us off topic, they can always try contacting me..

reply to post by jackieisinlove


Hey again Jackie..

However, after reading this stuff, I read a lot of your other posts and some other threads on here and saw that a lot of people are saying that Kennedy's first reaction... frame 229, clutching his chest and throat... was before the first shot was fired. I thought it was a reaction to the first shot, then found it odd that no one else really reacted until the second shot.

Yes, before the final and of course fatal head shot struck, Kennedy was seemingly struck previously in the upper back by another shot - this shot being classed, according to the Warren Commission, as an official second shot fired by Oswald (but technically being the first one which actually struck the president).

Over all 3 shots are claimed to have been fired by Oswald according to the Commission.

Anyway, you do bring up a great point in your post when you ask why no one reacted until the second shot had struck. Now, the best theory I've come across which explains this is the theory which states a silencer or some sort of sound suppressor was used.

The tiniest misalignment using this type of equipment is said to have caused bullets to go astray you see, thus why we have at least 2 missed head shots here.

This theory is also an explanation as to why we see the car not speeding away immediately after JFK was quite obviously shot. In fact, when looking at frame 247 for example, we can clearly see JFK, as well as Connelly reacting to gunfire. Greer starts to turn around to look at what's going on not long after as well which suggests he also didn't hear a shot:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/08aa33e5d6c2.jpg[/atsimg]

This is also a possible explanation as to why Clint Hill, the secret service agent we could see jumping onto the back of the car to aid the Kennedy's in the Zapruder film, didn't jump immediately - he simply didn't hear the shots beforehand due to the silencer used.

And again, as I said, this is also a possible explanation for the missed head shots. I mean here we have at least 1 (I personally suspect at least 2-4) completely missed shots - these being ones which missed the car altogether, and then we have one striking Kennedy in the upper back. This would have obviously been a head shot but of course, It clearly missed.

Then we have another shot which actually sounds different (this is the one people can remember hearing - a great deal of people claim hearing 2 shots almost on top of each other at this time also), and seemingly comes from another location (Grassy Knoll?) and this so happens to be the one gun which struck the head. In other words, the one gun which actually seemed to work correctly and struck where it was supposed to was one which was completely different to the first one which was malfunctioning in all aspects according to the witnesses - thus we can conclude that we have at least 2 separate shooters using 2 guns from 2 separate locations.

Now, It's just a theory of course, but I feel like it can explain a lot of what occurred here and most important of all, It's actually quite a plausible explanation, IMO.

Here's a great video which explains a little bit more about this, It really is worth a watch:



Here's another video which goes into further detail on the back wound, autopsy photos, as well as the suspected firing position and whom from:

Okay....your right. So, now what?

Originally posted by tom1701
Okay....your right. So, now what?

We then know and understand the truth.

That's surely the goal of what we're doing here at ATS, finding truth, Is it not?

reply to post by jaysconspiracy

Anyway, I don't want to flood this thread

Well, let me be the first to state I wouldn't mind.

This is a fascinating topic and the more we can discuss it, the better, IMO.

reply to post by Rising Against


Well I guess you asked for it I'll paste the whole rant I had on a different thread below. I think in that message I zero in mostly on Bush and LBJ.. I think I fail to mention the other enemies he made that could have reason to make him go away. Most mention the mob, but I'd also like to remind people of the Fed Reserve as well.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I do agree Bush was highly involved. I also agree LBJ was at least " in the know" over what happened. But I think your thread only tells of one part of the conspiracy...The main reason it all went down is the CIA. Prescott Bush and his tight knit friends such as the skull and bones types had their hand in creating the CIA. George HW Bush was thriving in the CIA when JFK took office and is widely considered one of their top dogs behind the scenes back then. The CIA is a way for these guys to make billions, bit is also a way to control foreign policy. It gives them the ability to make decisions on who they want in office in what countries and to overthrow the ones they want out. If you believe in a New World Order then you realize the secrecy of the CIA and the lack of oversight on their political decisions is needed. You can't run the country and further your interests from behind the scenes any better than in the CIA.
Now keep in mind that JFK hated the CIA. He was infuriated over the Bay of Pigs stuff. He was shell shocked by the audacity of proposals brought to him by the CIA such as Project Northwoods. He was so against what the CIA was doing that he said he would "smash the CIA into a thousand peices". He fired the head of the CIA who's a close personal friend of the Bush family named Allen Dulles. He also withdrew around a thousand troops from Vietnam.. It all adds up right there alone. The CIA's existence was on the brink of collapse as long as JFK was in power. And the man was just getting more popular so in their eyes there was no stopping him from re election and shutting down the CIA. As you can understand, the CIA had different views on how to handle National Security and felt that JFK was a threat to national security. The fact that LBJ hired Allen Dulles to be part of the Warren Commission makes it clear that LBJ didnt want the truth, but wanted to show loyalty. If I was your boss, and I angrily fired you. Wouldn't it be a slight conflict of interest for someone to hire you to care enough to find out who got rid of me??
To conclude these thoughts, keep in mind how powerful George Bush was already. The name of the operation we know as "The Bay of Pigs" incident, had a different name used by the CIA. They called it operation Zapata. Thats the name of the first oil company Bush owned. If he was a nobody who wasnt in charge of the operation, I kinda doubt he would have been allowed to name the operation. The ships used to attack Cuba were named Barbara and Houston, which obviously is the name of his wife and home town! Besides all of that circumstantial evidence, there is a US government memorandum dated 11-22-63 that mentions the fact that Mr George HW Bush was by his own admission in Dallas on November 22 1963!! Now remember that he is on record as saying he doesnt recall where he was that day?! So first of all, he's probably the only non politically involved person in the world who doesnt know where he was when JFK was shot. Secondly whats the chances that he'd forget such a thing if he was in the same town on that day and was on duty dealing with the situation as an intelligence agent!!?? So there you have it folks. Sorry if this is a long novel, but its important for people to connect all the dots. Blaming LBJ is just scratching the surface on a much bigger situation involving many more players.

reply to post by jaysconspiracy

Well I guess you asked for it

Hey, I'm glad I did still, lol. Oh, and since you did so, I hope you don't mind me copying a post of mine from another thread which is my idea of why the assassination had to occur also.

Here it is:

Now, going back to the very beginning, we know that It's certainly no lie that Joseph Kennedy Sr., the father of JFK, was pretty much desperate to become president of the United States someday. And he was admittedly quite close making it to the position of Ambassador to Britain, the first man of Irish descent to hold the position. But his dreams of presidency were to be dashed as he made his own public views on the delicate subject of the war, as he wanted to appease Hitler in his time in the government as well as wanting the United States to stay out of the war between Germany and Britain completely, public. Something which was not popular in the slightest and resulted in a ruined career in fact.

During this same war that he hated the idea of so desperately, both his sons attended, John F Kennedy & Joseph Kennedy Jr. JFK actually embarking on one of the most heroic acts to come out of the war (which made JFK a very well known figure before politics) and Joseph unfortunately dying after crashing his plane in a top secret mission over France I believe.

Due to his death, JFK was then prepped for the presidency by his father, as previously Joseph had been the primary candidate for such a thing. JFK, eventually rose through the ranks so to speak, with plenty of help from his father whom was very knowledgeable in the going-ons of politics as well as having a healthy bank balance. Something he seemingly wasn't afraid to use. Not that JFK wasn't a good politician or anything, It's just the money maybe helped him rise faster than he should've done - something a lot didn't seem to like for obvious reasons.

When JFK decided to run for president, Joseph Sr. seemed to throw himself into it, again, alongside his wallet. As the theory goes, he ended up attempting to and then being successful in bribing the mafia - particularly Sam Giancana, the mafia boss for Chicago at the time. After all, he knew them and dealt with them from his bootlegging days so It's not a great surprise really. Anyway, they were bribed to rig the very important Illinois vote (which is where It was won I believe), and in turn JFK, as president, will leave the mafia alone and let them deal with whatever they wished to deal with - primarily making money in Cuba IMO.

In fact, in 1992, Sam Giancana's own Nephew of all people published 'Double Cross: The Story of the Man Who Controlled America', It was a book which had attempted to explain how the rigging of the elections was in fact achieved by Sam Giancana and co. It is also argued in the book, that after he did do so, Kennedy then reneged on the deal (which was bribed by his father) and therefore Giancana had him killed. Thus the motivation for the assassination of the president.

Don't forget that Giancana is mentioned in my OP and if you knew the way he died, you would wholly agree with him being there also. Anyway, once president, the complete opposite of the bribery deal, which some say JFK and RFK were possibly not even aware of, had occurred. You see, they literally went after the mafia rather than leave them alone. Particularly RFK. I believe they desperately tried to jail some of them as well as have many deported and as you can imagine, this didn't go down well at all.

Now, the Bay of pigs operation, let me state at this point the Mafia were secretly working with the CIA - particularly with Cuba affairs at this time. I believe Johnnie Roselli in particular was attempting, or making it seem as though, he was trying to get Castro assassination. Anyway, the bay of pigs was a complete mess to sum it up in only a few words.

But, IMO, It wasn't Kennedy's fault in the slightest, the CIA seemingly went behind his back to make it happen - with the help of the mafia, something the Kennedy brothers were not happy about at all. Kennedy was subsequently blamed for what happened and not "aiding his dying men". Something that could have sealed his fate.

Btw, here's an interesting snippet from my OP one of of the key government figures whom grew to hate the Kennedy's due to what occurred with overall relations in Cuba too:

William Harvey:

William Harvey - Was according to researchers such as Richard D. Mahoney, Larry Hancock, John Simkin, Gaeton Fonzi, James Richards and also Noel Twyman, quite possibly involved in the actual assassination of JFK. He is someone whom is heard to have said that he "hated Bobby Kennedy's guts with a purple passion" this allegedly according to a friend of his.

Reason being that During the Cuban Missile Crisis, Robert Kennedy had instructed the then CIA director, John McCone, to halt all covert operations specifically aimed at Cuba. A few days later he discovered that Harvey had ignored this order (Harvey being the head of Task Force at the CIA JM/WAVE station in Miami) and had dispatched three commando teams into Cuba to prepare for what he believed would be an inevitable invasion.

Kennedy was furious and as soon as the Cuban Missile Crisis was over, Harvey was removed as commander of ZR/RIFLE. On 30th October, 1962, RFK terminated "all sabotage operations" against Cuba. As a result of President Kennedy kept his promise to Nikita Khrushchev that he would not invade Cuba, Operation Mongoose was disbanded.

In '61 though, Harvey arranged for CIA operative, Jim O'Connell, to meet Sam Giancana, Santo Trafficante, Johnny Roselli and Robert Maheu at the Fontainebleau Hotel. During the meeting O'Connell gave poison pills and $10,000 to Rosselli to be used against Fidel Castro.

Harvey was demoted and sent to Italy to work and It was hear he developed such a hatred for the Kennedy's. And It was also at this time he kept continual contact with the mafia - specifically Roselli. In fact they even met in New York on the 8th of April. Then a week later in Miami. According to Richard D. Mahoney: "On April 21 he (Harvey) flew from Washington to deliver four poison pills directly to Rosselli, who got them to Tony Varona and hence to Havana. That same evening, Harvey and Ted Shackley, the chief of the CIA's south Florida base, drove a U-Haul truck filled with the requested arms through the rain to a deserted parking lot in Miami. They got out and handed the keys to Rosselli.""

William Harvey died in 1976 after allegedly suffering heart complications. Although It's heavily hinted at that he certainly did have a hand in the assassination of the president thus this potentially being the true cause on why he had to die.

And don't underestimate just how many there was whom just hated Bobby and John Kennedy because of this failed bay of pigs operation as well as what was happening with Cuba. I mean, people literally hated them with a passion for it. People in relatively high positions.

It was these 2 things which, IMO, caused the death of John F. Kennedy and later Bobby Kennedy also. So, I really don't think It has anything to do with UFO's or alien technology or even anything like that. I genuinely do think that people just hated the president and his brother and they desperately set out to kill them and to once and for all rid the world of them.

It can be simple, IMO.

Anyway, that's my shortened theory on why JFK really did die. I could type all day but I tried to get the least amount of information I felt was necessary to understand the reasoning for why I subscribe to my theory as opposed to any other right now. (Source of this original post)

reply to post by Rising Against


There is no denying that the mafia had the motive and the means to pull off a big job. But do you think they acted alone?

reply to post by jaysconspiracy


In regards to the Bush connection, well, to be completely honest It's not an area I'm looked into a great deal. Just a minimal amount in fact. So, please bear that in mind. But it's for this reason why I thank you for your post.

But taking everything into account, I still strongly believe the mafia and the CIA, as I said in my post, were working together to rid the world of Kennedy primarily because of Bobby. As I've said before in other threads, John was a problem, but Bobby was THE problem, IMO.

Now remember that he is on record as saying he doesnt recall where he was that day?!

I still feel LBJ played a major role, but I agree with you here. Their is just no denying that this is quite odd. And he certainly one be one of the very few not to remember where he was that day.

One of only politicians also.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
reply to post by Rising Against

 

There is no denying that the mafia had the motive and the means to pull off a big job. But do you think they acted alone?

No, I believe they had a great deal of help from the CIA, admittedly. But I believe it was motivated primarily because of Bobby.

Just a quick one ! Not wanting to derail the subject, but I have recordings to send to Rising Against and naturally neither of us want to identify ourselves, either to each other, or others. Is there a safe way of delivering the reserch materials to him ? We are both in England, are any mods in England that could act as intermediaries, or is there anything in place to help in a situation like this ? Before anyone suggests that I send it by E-mail or any other modern day means, I can only just operate a computer, and can't even work out why my keyboard has a life of it's own. I am more than willing to pay postage costs, but am clueless as to how to proceed. On a final note, I would like them to actually arrive with him and not go missing along the way, so any safe suggestions will be considered. So as to not clog the thread, perhaps you could u2u them to me or Rising Against, thanks in advance !

reply to post by Qwenn


I'm not one to speak on technical matters so I'll leave the advice giving up to someone else. As for the recordings, I'm not sure what you have in possession but if its new material I have not reviewed before I would love to get a chance to check it out.

reply to post by Rising Against


Yup both boys had lots of enemies!... Btw, if you get those recordings from the other member and there's anything interesting, I'd love to hear the results!

Just to clarify, they are nothing confidential or new, they are about 6 documentaries and an audio tape book, which, if I can, I will transfer to disc. I am just worried that the thread will be derailed if we discuss posting them on the thread. So any u2u suggestions would be welcome.

reply to post by Qwenn


Ahh, okay, I recall the mention of you wanting to make a compilation of that material.... Good luck putting it together!

Originally posted by Qwenn
Just to clarify, they are nothing confidential or new, they are about 6 documentaries and an audio tape book,

Speaking of documentaries, and for anyone interested, here's a thread I made listing some of them:

List of Free JFK Documentaries

reply to post by TKDRL

I haven't heard of him before now, thanks.

I'm glad you found his story through this thread then.

He's one of the most interesting witnesses to come out of the entire case, IMO. He doesn't deserve to be forgotten over the years like he has been..

reply to post by Rising Against


Thank you for the List of Free JFK Documentaries... I slept and dreamt of
the damned things all last night!
The Bush Connection video was one I was reluctant to view, however the
evidence presented regarding Bush Snr. was startling... even down to naming
the Bay of Pigs operation as codename -Zapata... the same name as George
H.W Bush's oil company!
Source

The 'Warren Commission' video led one along a trail of politics and personality
clashes and it seems the actual assassination investigation was dealt with
begrudgingly.

Looking at the 'slip-shod' way the autopsy was done, leaves me doubting that
Lee Oswald acted alone, there seems too many sinister figures lurking in the
background.