Gods Will conquers free will

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by laffoe
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Happy that everything is ok for you now, and that you are a handsome guy

I won´t preach... don´t do preaching

Hope the best for you

LOL! Peace Bro!

IRM

Peace Bro!
Hope we will make this peace coming to us into something amazing

Love you

Originally posted by laffoe
This could be of interest
LINK
Hope you´ll read the OP
take it serious and answer the question

Love love love

I went to your suggested link and found a repetitive self-biography, the standard sermon in an excessively long version with overdone verbiage, claims of non-denomination or religious non-affilliation (not true) and things 'explained' by just talking and talking and talking.

Why is this important, except if you want to lead people to terminal boredom or scare them away?

I doubt, if any rational person will be swayed by such self-conceited preaching, and the saved are already saved.

reply to post by bogomil


I think you might have got to the point without trying to use every word you know first.

Sorry you don't like the "I don't think we know enough to say for certain either way" response, which is all I ever give to people who do not believe in God.

Just as you are able to tell me I don't know, I am able to tell you the same.
And anyone who argues this "God" thing with me, ditto. None of us know. Those are just the facts. Unknown. Some believe the old stories and think there was another type being here with early humans and others don't. Neither can say the other is wrong. I can say I think you are wrong and I do. Is this difficult to follow? Am I losing anyone?

Frankly I am sick to death of people...

a) who think they know the unknowable and
b) just want to argue.

reply to post by newcovenant


You haven't told me, which post from me you refer to, but I guess it's the latest one addressed to you

You wrote:

["Just as you are able to tell me I don't know, I am able to tell you the same.
And anyone who argues this "God" thing with me, ditto. None of us know. Those are just the facts."]

I do know and understand, what philosophical agnosticism means, and what it implies.

But I'm not in any special conflict with agnostic theists (apart from some rather peaceful academic points), it's the gnostic theists, who on top mission aggresively in this mundane world, whom I criticize.

Besides the overall theist attitudes aren't as simplistic as you describe it.

As to 'knowing words'; I know many, many more, some of them a bit highbrow, but hopefully all leading to precision. Do you have any special objection to the use of some academic jargon?

reply to post by bogomil


I am a little bit in conflict with the gnostic theists myself.
Religion is personal and should stay that way. For Christ's sake, close the door!

No one should know what your religion is outside of your place of worship.
I think it is a bit like showing your private parts to the world.
Let people only imagine what these intimate places within ourselves look like. Please.

Let me go for a bit of a reach and look at other things pertaining to the individual that are also that personal and frankly none of anyone's business. (Unless they ask, AND you wish to share as we are doing in this thread)

We all react differently to different foods and medicinal substances. Our bodies though similar in many ways are quite individual. This food give me gas. I can't eat it. etc.

Lets take sex. Also personal. There is no right or wrong. There is what works for you. It is personal and matters only to the individual.

We are unique when it comes to the intangible mechanics necessary to operate our realities on the planet too.
This means ones beliefs are deeply personal and unique to individuals. Some people manifest a physical reaction to dogma. This illustrates how much what and how we think affects our brain and then consequently works its way into our actions or our manifest physical reality.


UNFORTUNATELY for many in organized religion, their dogma has become a profit generating big business.
They have turned it into a private club. A club where membership not only gives you privileges but costs to join.

When you break any of these clubs down to their basic components you have (not necessarily the lie you want to find at its seed core) but individuals and actions taken by those same individuals that are reprehensible and worthy of contempt. HOWEVER ; The origin may not be suspect. The ultimate actions and reality come to pass from corruption and misunderstanding based on those origins may be suspect and wrong but not the belief at its core.

Looking at the synchronicity and almost poetic and painful beauty of the planet and my placement in it -
I know this was intentional. I can't describe to you how I know and you may insist I don't. That's fine and should not affect me. Knowing this as a consideration and awareness in MY LIFE - I find myself infinitely loving this source and saying, wow you are good.

But you can't get to C or "source" without accepting A & B first.
A - we were created
B - for a reason

Not that you should because you do not have to go there. Free will.
If you do not believe A or B (and it is a personal choice) you will never get to the C.
Nor should you because what matters is how you live your life and how you affect people, not what you think about mortality or God.

Beliefs are inconsequential by themselves.
No one should be judged by their beliefs or their thoughts but by their actions.
I know thought inspire action and so I am suggesting a change in thought.
Suspend belief and judge people strictly and solely on their actions
Hold them responsible for those. Period.

Not what they will do. Not what they think.
That is the only way to judge people. By their ACTIONS.
That is how you know them.
Not by their religion.
Not by what they eat.
Not by what sort of sex they have or with whom.

These things I might share only because they might be items of interest in small conversation with another.
I am not bringing them up so someone can talk me out of my religion, my food choices or my sex life.

Religion is best kept a secret between participants. If there is a need to share why you do what you do as in with offspring we can only hope ones religion instills a sense of compassion and humanity towards our fellow man.
No matter what else is involved in ones personal private religion there needs to be,
for daily life in civilization with others and in the interest of peaceable life,
harmony and the very survival of the species homo sapiens...
an encouragement and fostering of this high ideal.

Compassion and humanity toward ones fellow man.

The best way to get is to show and do yourself.
None of us can change what is
or why it is
we can only affect what happens next.

reply to post by newcovenant


I actively support the first part of your post. I don't waste my time standing in public berating religion, ideologies etc. And should anyone e.g. suggest limitations of the egalitarian rights of religious groups, I would defend the religious groups' rights.

And academic discussion on theism, atheism and other positions can take place without any direct practical feed-back to society, for those interested.

But if you present your religious (or other ideological) platform on a public forum, you're open to debate, criticism ....inside the frames of the moderation rules of the chosen forum.

Anybody wanting to 'share' uninterrupted can find protected sites, with censorship in certain directions.

PS Your A to B to C causal reasoning-chain is ofcourse sound, but there can be different premises and perimeters to it. Sometimes participants forget to play with true colours on those points.

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by laffoe

 

I hope god does a good job telling you when to go to the bathroom.

Can you ask it if it's will is stronger than ours, why it so enjoys causing people pain and heartache?

God's will is stronger of course but you are currently using your own so the pain and suffering are on your shoulders.....Return to god and offer yourself and things would change.

And this postulate is based on...WHAT?

Reality

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by laffoe

 

I hope god does a good job telling you when to go to the bathroom.

Can you ask it if it's will is stronger than ours, why it so enjoys causing people pain and heartache?

God's will is stronger of course but you are currently using your own so the pain and suffering are on your shoulders.....Return to god and offer yourself and things would change.

And this postulate is based on...WHAT?

Reality

If you're christian, which one of the 34.000 'realities' do you refer to? If you're generally theist, the options are ofcourse even bigger, and there are 3.500 'gods' to choose between. I would say, a 'god' should be something 'real', so what is your preference and why?

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by laffoe

 

I hope god does a good job telling you when to go to the bathroom.

Can you ask it if it's will is stronger than ours, why it so enjoys causing people pain and heartache?

God's will is stronger of course but you are currently using your own so the pain and suffering are on your shoulders.....Return to god and offer yourself and things would change.

And this postulate is based on...WHAT?

Reality

If you're christian, which one of the 34.000 'realities' do you refer to? If you're generally theist, the options are ofcourse even bigger, and there are 3.500 'gods' to choose between. I would say, a 'god' should be something 'real', so what is your preference and why?

edit on 5-6-2011 by bogomil because: spelling

Forget about religions
There are only God
You may call him whatever you prefer
Just be respectful

Question: would you bow to God if he asked you to?

reply to post by laffoe


You wrote:

["There are only God"]

You're a decent person, so I'll just say......"hmmmmm"..... and not put you through a wringer.

Quote: [" You may call him whatever you prefer"]

That's what most of the theists do, and then they start fighting each other for copyrights.

Quote: ["Question: would you bow to God if he asked you to?"]

Which 'god'?

And to any claiming to be 'god' I would say: "Evidence, please".

Finally I doubt if any 'real god' would need to be bowed to. But that's just my opinion, I've never met any 'real gods', only many people pretending to have authority on the concept.

reply to post by laffoe


If a God asked you to bow, you would know this wasnt God. The Family is humble and equal, in potential, and they dont lord it over anyone. Including the Father, the Mother and the Son.

reply to post by Unity_99

For me it will be like this
I bow for God willingly out of love and out of respect...
Recognizing He has always been there for me, guiding me in every step with abundance of love.

People who had build a tower out of ego, pride, anger or whatever their buildingblocks were, need to come down from there - bow - to be able to listen to God with humbleness in their hearts...

In the Family we have already made that leap, because of that we are able to meet God to His face as equals, even make jokes with him or be silly... Because God know that we know Him and that we recognize the Creator freely and willingly...

reply to post by laffoe


You wrote:

["For me it will be like this I bow for God willingly out of love and out of respect...
Recognizing He has always been there for me, guiding me in every step with abundance of love."]

Your choice, and I hope, it brings you to where you want to be.

Quote: ["People who had build a tower out of ego, pride, anger or whatever their buildingblocks were, need to come down from there - bow - to be able to listen to God with humbleness in their hearts... "]

There are other options on the whole situation, than the one you suggest. This sounds remarkably like elististic nonsense.

Quote: ["In the Family we have already made that leap, because of that we are able to meet God to His face as equals, even make jokes with him or be silly... Because God know that we know Him and that we recognize the Creator freely and willingly..."]

Self-contained, self-proving circle-argumentation. In other words: Propaganda.

Hmm, I find that you've been wrestling hard with God. I won't reason with you in any manner as I know I won't be able to convince you. But as time comes, you will grow older and perceive. There are many people who just can't be simple when it comes to solving problems and goes around a big bush whilst not noticing the objective.

Some wants reasons to back their faith, some don't. Some have motives for their purpose, some are barred from it just because they felt it is it that broke and hardened their hearts. To every living beings that exists with the wisdom to discern, it is a privilege to know every signal is still alive. He has been speaking to you but you've not been able to hear. There are many barriers with you that can be broken down by one simple choice. You know what it is.

Originally posted by daveth26
Hmm, I find that you've been wrestling hard with God. I won't reason with you in any manner as I know I won't be able to convince you. But as time comes, you will grow older and perceive. There are many people who just can't be simple when it comes to solving problems and goes around a big bush whilst not noticing the objective.

Some wants reasons to back their faith, some don't. Some have motives for their purpose, some are barred from it just because they felt it is it that broke and hardened their hearts. To every living beings that exists with the wisdom to discern, it is a privilege to know every signal is still alive. He has been speaking to you but you've not been able to hear. There are many barriers with you that can be broken down by one simple choice. You know what it is.

The enigmatic approach of the pseudo-esoteric guru: "I have the answer, but I won't tell you".

I'm well on in years, and consequently I'm terribly wise. So now YOU listen to me, when I utter the following words of wisdom: "Mumble, mumble, mumble".

You'll get it in a few years after daily pondering on it. I can give you a hint though: It's about free will.

So when someone has a miraculous life event: coming back to life, being homeless and without food and then someone provides for them, a jobless person finally gets a job after 3 years, etc. then religious people scream God's Will! When mankind causes death and destruction, pain and suffering; that somehow isn't God's Will and is all our fault.

Keep in mind that it's mankind that heals the sick, brings us back to life, provides shelter and food for the homeless, and supplies jobs to the jobless. We don't give ourselves the credit we deserve when it comes to providing for the good of our people. Instead all the good gets credited to God and all the bad is thrown back in our faces.

Originally posted by novastrike81
So when someone has a miraculous life event: coming back to life, being homeless and without food and then someone provides for them, a jobless person finally gets a job after 3 years, etc. then religious people scream God's Will! When mankind causes death and destruction, pain and suffering; that somehow isn't God's Will and is all our fault.

Keep in mind that it's mankind that heals the sick, brings us back to life, provides shelter and food for the homeless, and supplies jobs to the jobless. We don't give ourselves the credit we deserve when it comes to providing for the good of our people. Instead all the good gets credited to God and all the bad is thrown back in our faces.

edit on 12-8-2011 by novastrike81 because: (no reason given)

You're right. I have yet to see anyone repair a car through prayer (and thgere ARE situations, where a dysfunctional car can make the difference between real bad or real good consequences).

This example to avoid the sometimes spontaneous recovery of persons used as 'proof' for anything.