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Gods Will conquers free will

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by laffoe
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 


Happy that everything is ok for you now, and that you are a handsome guy

I won´t preach... don´t do preaching

Hope the best for you


LOL! Peace Bro!

IRM




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by InfaRedMan
 





There's no skill in turning your brain off.



I think believing in nothing is turning your brain off completely.
To believe in and devise something that you have to imagine and is not physically present to see takes more brain activity, creativity and operational skills, than seeing nothing and thinking nothing is there because nothing is evident to your untrained unassisted eye. If the first microbiologists thought like you we'd be in trouble.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Brianegan
reply to post by newcovenant
 


inncorrect......and correct..........everyone has to do it



I recently got a "warning notice" from a mod for posting a single line response in another thread
and now I see why. I can't tell what you are talking about.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by laffoe
 


I hope god does a good job telling you when to go to the bathroom.

Can you ask it if it's will is stronger than ours, why it so enjoys causing people pain and heartache?



God's will is stronger of course but you are currently using your own so the pain and suffering are on your shoulders.....Return to god and offer yourself and things would change.


And this postulate is based on...WHAT?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Brianegan

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
When people kill other people, and if gods will is stronger than ours, should we blame god and not the murderer? If not, does that mean that man's will is stronger than gods. Or does it mean that gods will is only stronger than the will of those that worship him?

IRM
edit on 29/5/11 by InfaRedMan because: typos n stuff!


It means that free will was not offered freely by god. It was out of the request that free will has been given and honered........Sure gods will can over come all but only if he wants to........He doesnt.


Didn't get that.

Are you saying, that we have free will as long as we do as we're told. .....Or else.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by Brianegan
 


You wrote in your post to me:

["# 2 - he was speaking in generalities there but the literal side also exists....If you are one who believes they dont share any pieces of all three of those things you are forcing yourself to believe it and not facing your true self.....You can only bury it....That doesnt make it go away....You must face it."]

You can either relate to general mundane observations of human behaviour, or you can relate to set of alleged doctrines on ultimate truth. In neither case do you have any justifictaion for ANY opinons on me on the above points. This superimposition of theist claims on people are repulsive and of invasive nature.

Quote: ["# 3 His existance is not debatable but simply deniable"]

For your information: I am familiar with the implications of agnosticism.

Quote: ["With this mind frame you will be placed in the back of the line made to wait to ponder what you will say when you meet him face to face because the day will" come"]

Whereas YOU already know the 'truth' and impose this truth of yours on me.

Quote: ["Please just stop telling god what you think he should be like.....Let him be what ever he wishes to be.......nomatter what that may be.......If you do that he may just give you what you want and make the times you missed what he did more obvious for you to notice."]

Not being zombified, I read this as: Stop questioning christian doctrines. I do not operate with your absolutes as truth. Surpriiiise.

Quote: ["Ask for forgivness for the same reason you are pissed off for being here......You blame him but he blames you.....Who do you think has a better chance of being right about it.....It at least deserves some thought."]

So something is 'true, because it's true', as is the case of your subjective claims of universal 'truths'. I have a better method. I INCLUDE rational thinking for finding answers.

Quote: ["Your cup is way too full bc the judgments you are making now will be the reason you end up a zombie with no brain activity left what so ever......."]

So by hijacking asian allegory, you have now declared, that because my mind is not filled with YOUR claims, it runneth over. How self-conceited can you be?

Quote: ["When one lets god into their heart the are set free not enslaved...It is just that type of thinking that got us all in this in the first place.......hear me"]

Yes, I hear you. Still another self-cointaned and unverified postulate.

Quote: ["You gain slow but steady progress bc you are unworthy to find truth so the illusion of a door getting closer will remain just that : a door seeming to get closer......I exlained this optical illussion of the stairway climb with the mathmatical formula creating the illussion of a door getting closer and the steps adding and subtracting to make the effect seem real...You will never reach the top or that door while those beliefs you harbor on are current....You will just keep climbing and be kept in that cage until you learn how to behave."]

I love, when people patronize me on dogmatic grounds and 'explain' it through useless allegories. I have a philosophical position, which can be validated from many rational perspectives. That it doesn't fit with your self-proclaimed 'truths' is of zero importance to me.

Quote: ["The ones who love but are uniterested in god are one step closer to the truth than one who is uniterested in both."]

So you're also a self-declared 'sage'.

Quote: ["He doesnt have to be that way but his children are currently out of control making horrible choices........Take responsibility for your actions instead of placing the blame on such an easy target."]

So blindly accepting a set of postulates, which you consider insane or idiotic is "taking responsibility". I consider it demonstrating a submissive slave-nature, where you just follow rules, however stupid they appear to be.

Quote: ["The only reason you would ever resonate with anything is bc of god and him asking nothing in return.....Thank him you a-hole."]

Dogma.

Quote: ["If you believe that you arent being controlled than you are so far behind in waking up to whats around you that i feel sad for the shock value you will have when the build up of denial hits you at once from explosion of too many things stored away for later evaluation... "]

Thanks for your concern. It would have been more appreciated, if you knew, what you're talking about in my case.

Quote: ["Free will is not absence of compulsion."]

Your first communicable point. But what is it then?

Quote: ["Sir......You lie on a daily basis and to yourself among all others that you exagerate embelish underestimate to as well......"]

Skip your clairvoyant stunt. You don't know me.

Quote: ["This is a form of control that you are trying to place on others to believe what you want them to believe.....You disagree with this one and you simply just said another lie.......Keep it up...."]

So anti-authority is authority? Refine your semantics, this is to clumpsy.

Quote: ["T o believe that you are capable of undersatnding the concept of god is such a display of ego that you reak of it......Your judgements are so far from being in the ballpark that you really should start thinking things over and revaluating a bunch of things.... "]

A reasonable first step is to establish any 'god's actual existence. Then his/her/its specifics can be considered.

Quote: ["You didnt get it the first time or the second time and since this time was probably in the realm of the millionth time you can undersatnd why we repeat ourselves to those who have decided to close their ears to this information....We wont give up on you no matter how mean you can be......You are weak so we carry you up kicking and screaming...Youll thank us later bc what you know now will change in a little while...."]

You repeat yourself, because you this way hope to be able to brainwash people into beliving your non-sense.

Quote: ["NO OBVIOUS REASONS.........YOU ARE SO SELF RIGHTOUS ITS SICKENING......YOU ARE GUILTY OF SO MANY HORRID THINGS THAT YOU DESERVE SO MANY MORE HORRIBLE THINGS TO HAPPEN TO YOU............BUT TRUTH BE TOLD YOU ARE CREATING EVERYTHING YOU SEE AND IT IS DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE THOUGHTS YOU DWELL ON....lOOK IN THE MIRROR "]

So much for christian love.

Quote: ["Yes sacrifice is involved and you should be greatful that you will never have to experience it and that god does for you."]

Another slave-dogma.

Quote: ["creationism is already active in our actions and words...."]

You lost me. Are we talking about the same thing?

Quote: ["well the balances are now shifted in our favor....Every day hords of people join our goals of unity and love and one ness"]

I would like to see this cosmetic statistics you refer to. If the current trend continues, you and your ilk will be very small in a generation or two.

Quote: ["We already outnumber you now by far and soon you will be the largest minority"]

Who are 'we' and who are 'you' in this context?

Quote: [" and the reason that op has found such hapiness and you bathe in frowns, rage, and, grumpyness"]

Clairvoyance (again)?

Quote: ["So why are you here? Think about it. Your soul is screaming at you pulling you in our direction and you are fighting it every step of the way....Either listen to your soul or be forever torn and alone.......until the end day when god smacks you himself."]

Clairvoyance AND dogma.

edit on 31-5-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 



There's no skill in turning your brain off.

I think believing in nothing is turning your brain off completely.
To believe in and devise something that you have to imagine and is not physically present to see takes more brain activity, creativity and operational skills, than seeing nothing and thinking nothing is there because nothing is evident to your untrained unassisted eye. If the first microbiologists thought like you we'd be in trouble.


Those who wrote the bible were the creative ones. Brains that passively accept through faith are idle. Faith requires no deliberation or critical thought... hence the term 'faith'. When a believer begins to question, people within a congregation will often say to them that they are losing their faith.

In relation to microbiologists; they were actually able to back up their theories with unimpeachable science. Religion has had millennia to do that, and thus far they have failed. The analogy doesn't quite work.

IRM



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by Brianegan
 


Thank-you
You always seem to reach my heart and show me confidence when mist cover my view.
Always being a source of Love and Light.
Love you beyond words

May our hearts be open, may we see trough mist and vanity.
May we see trough to see our Brothers and Sisters as they truly are.
May we not be deflected by illusion.
May our hearts beat as One.

Sharing from the hearts



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by InfaRedMan
 



There's no skill in turning your brain off.

I think believing in nothing is turning your brain off completely.
To believe in and devise something that you have to imagine and is not physically present to see takes more brain activity, creativity and operational skills, than seeing nothing and thinking nothing is there because nothing is evident to your untrained unassisted eye. If the first microbiologists thought like you we'd be in trouble.


Those who wrote the bible were the creative ones. Brains that passively accept through faith are idle. Faith requires no deliberation or critical thought... hence the term 'faith'. When a believer begins to question, people within a congregation will often say to them that they are losing their faith.

In relation to microbiologists; they were actually able to back up their theories with unimpeachable science. Religion has had millennia to do that, and thus far they have failed. The analogy doesn't quite work.

IRM

Those who wrote the books that eventually made it into the Bible were scribes and merely observers. It required no additional thought to see something or hear of a tale and recite it word for word or recall it scene by scene.

And faith is a belief. So when you are losing faith you are losing a belief that encompasses a history, a tradition a legacy and a reason. That is not nothing.

Regarding microbiologist they are learning something new and making new discoveries on a daily basis.
Given mans length of time on the planet there is plenty of time for religion to reveal it's roots, and prove it's validity regardless of whether or not you follow along, so I am afraid your analogy does not quite fit at all.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


You wrote:

["Given mans length of time on the planet there is plenty of time for religion to reveal it's roots, and prove it's validity regardless of whether or not you follow along, so I am afraid your analogy does not quite fit at all."]


Labelling myself as either a metaphysicist or supplementary as what imprecisely is called a 'mystic', I'm not on principle objecting to some of the ingredients of the theist scenario, especially on the point of there being more existence levels than just the cosmic one.

But not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathing water, I also enthusiastically insist on the use of objective systematic methodology, as far as it can reach. And in this context it means, that it's irrational to start with answers, and then adapt/invent evidence, support, validity etc backwards from the predetermined answer.

And this backwards method is what religionists often use. They don't search for their 'roots', they fabricate them. So it's no wonder, that the relative-reality credibility in science/logic is far bigger after some centuries, than that of religion etc, which has been around for thousands of years.

If you already have the 'correct answers' the motivation to search for anything at all is small.

I have an observation on this: Elsewhere on ATS an agnostic atheist and I communicate on the subject of cosmos/trans-cosmos (in technical terms 'event horizon', in theist terms maybe 'creation'). The atheist being somewhat sceptical, I guardedly and moderately using whatever science/logic options pointing in the direction of trans-cosmic existence.

My position and direction being similar to that of the not-so-intelligent christian concept: 'Intelligent design' (and other hijacked and twisted science), but in my case with considerably more solid ground under my feet and starting from the beginning.

Well, you would expect theists to take such an opening like a shot; finally someone trying to establish credibility to at least some of their claims. Interest from theist direction: Zero. They already know it all, why bother?

(PS I'm not suggesting, that my ruminations on that thread are pieces of genius, it's just an effort whatever it's worth).



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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We choose what to align with and serve
LINK

I choose God/Unity/Source/Eternity/.... insert more names
All included, we´re all saved or none

What do you choose?



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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What is it really that changes our life
And I don´t mean on a theoretical hypothetical basis
Was is it that really really makes a difference
Make us realize something new,
and making us strive to follow this new realization and make it tangible.

What is it that touches our heart, behind all the walls build around it.
What puts this life into perspective
Transforming all the coincidences into steppingstones into awakening.
At our most lonely,sad and crying moment...
Who whispers into my ear, gently trying to reach trough the tears, fears and anger...

For me, I realized, it has always been God
Not any concept or beliefsystem from the Bible or any other text
A living reality, beyond any word or thought
Living whithin my heart
Dwelling in the silence between bounces
For me I know it is true

My wish is only to share this
Share this from my naked heart
Here it is for you to touch
All I wish

I miss you
Miss you to come home
To realize
The amazingness of yourself
I do not need discussion, analysis, arguments
Everything is true within reality
We do not have to agree on it all
Just wish for our hearts to beat as one
Just wish

Unity
Love
Reality



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by laffoe
 


You wrote:

["What is it really that changes our life "]

For some people it's the synthetic climaxes in serial operas, which football team wins or getting laid in an interesting way.

Quote:

["And I don´t mean on a theoretical hypothetical basis"]

For some it's the thrill of abstract searching for truth/reality.

Quote: [" Was is it that really really makes a difference"]

Thare is no demonstrable "really really" reality. There are choices based on personal inclinations.

Quote: [" At our most lonely,sad and crying moment... "]

Some people, when occasionally experiencing such moments, pass through them their own way, and don't give a hoot to it.

Quote: [" Who whispers into my ear, gently trying to reach trough the tears, fears and anger..."]

For those needing external consolation: Buddha, Jesus, the holy spirit, Karl Marx, Mao, Kuan Yin, Einstein, Niels Bohr, Allah, Lao Tse or the flying spaghetti monster.... sometimes South Park or Terry Pratchett.

Quote: [" For me, I realized, it has always been God"]

A respectable and legitimate individual (or consenting-group) choice.

Quote: ["Not any concept or beliefsystem from the Bible or any other text A living reality, beyond any word or thought Living whithin my heart Dwelling in the silence between bounces For me I know it is true"]

Personally I'm very enthusiastic of the path of direct experience in this context. Though my method, its result and tentative conclusions may vary considerably from yours. That not least includes the semantic aspects in the initial formulations of 'method'.

Quote: ["My wish is only to share this Share this from my naked heart Here it is for you to touch"]

My impression of you is as you being a sympathetic and decent person. But still 'share' is a tricky word, very often misused in clear propagandistic purposes.

Quote: ["I miss you Miss you to come home"]

I guess, that both you and your alleged 'god' have enough people walking your direction to not feel alone. An all-inclusive call to all mankind is uncalled for, and can even act as a red flag.

Quote: ["To realize The amazingness of yourself"]

Such a realization can take (and have) many forms. Imo opinion some of them better than the one you suggest.

Quote: [" I do not need discussion, analysis, arguments "]

Your choice. Noit valid for everybody.

Quote: ["Everything is true within reality"]

Which 'reality' are you talking about, The one described by science/logic, by christians, communists, philosophical materialists, muslims?

Quote: [" We do not have to agree on it all"]

Very true. We have to learn to get along in the midst of disagreements. Disagreements extending even into which search-method is preferable.



edit on 2-6-2011 by bogomil because: short addition



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by laffoe
 


Good thing I don't believe in God.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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keyword for this thread is: Balance.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by Avyuir
 


Can you believe?
Really it is something that can be trained, a natural ability of our heart.
There is no time
There is only now

All my love to you
I sense your heart
It is so amazing
Believe that
Please



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by etherical waterwave
keyword for this thread is: Balance.


Heart is balance
Rhytm
In
Out

Thankyou for your post, and for all the love light and inspiration
you have shared on these pages
Deeply appreciated

Sending you my love and best thoughts



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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This could be of interest
LINK
Hope you´ll read the OP
take it serious and answer the question

Love love love



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Sending you all my love
Hope it´ll reach you
...
Have so much to say, but feel the lack of words
Love you



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


Thankyou for sharing your insights
Thankyou for standing up for a good cause
Much appreciated

Sending you all my love



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