Originally posted by beltemps

Originally posted by ShadowZion
Djinn is arabic for demon, i know i live in an arabic country Nuff said.

I didn't know that just living in an arabic country makes you an expert on djinn/demons....

well actually djinn and demons are not exactly the same since demons always represent the concept of evil while djinn can represent both...

moreover according to th quran djinn were created as a race of its own, after the angels and before man... according to western beliefs demons are fallen angels...

I concur though that in middle east djinn are commonly referred to as being evil in the same way as westerners use the term demon...

It does because it means that i have arabic friends of which i discuss the topic of religion more frequently than not.

Djinn you are correct can be both but thats because

We say : Angel or Demon
They Say: Jinn

They are talking about the same thing.

Isn't a demon a fallen angel as you said.......
yes

but we dont say angels and fallen angels we say angels and demons.

arabs also have angels so your statement saying that they could be either good or bad is false.

Not a reliable source below as it is from wikipedia.

However i have confirmed it with my muslim friends to be correct.

Jinn (Arabic: جن‎ ǧinn, singular جني ǧinnī ; variant spelling djinn) or genies are supernatural creatures in Arab folklore and Islamic teachings which occupy a parallel world to that of mankind. Together, jinn, humans and angels make up the three sentient creations of Allah. According to the Qur’ān, there are two creations that have free will[citation needed]: humans and jinn. Religious sources say barely anything about them; however, the Qur’an mentions that jinn are made of smokeless flame or "scorching fire".[1] Like human beings, the jinn can also be good, evil, or neutrally benevolent.[2]

The jinn are mentioned frequently in the Qur’ān, and there is a surah entitled Sūrat al-Jinn in the Qur’ān.

so they do have jinns and angels so they could not be the same thing.

plus whenever my muslim friends refer to a Jinn they describe it as a demonic creature.

Hi Beltemps and everyone else

My first ever post in these forums so please do be kind. some very interesting posts here, i thought i would offer my two cents on this as well.

I am not subscribed & sold to my opinions & beliefs in such a way that i would be averse to admit contrasting/opposing views. nothing makes me happier than to be corrected, for then i have gained something new, knowledge-wise.

My understanding of how islam views the jinns is as follows. The "evil" amongst the jinn of Islam, and Demons of judeo-christianity to me, appear to refer to the same entities. however, not all Jinn are evil. before man came, the angels and the jinn were already created. angels were the "noori" entities, created from the light or the sacred flame. jinn were the "nari" entities, created from smokeless fire. angels without freewill, jinn with freewill.

Iblis/Lucifer, in the time before time, was one of the created beings closest to God. being born of fire, the element was dominant in his nature as well, where his understanding that none loved God more than he, was a source of pride. this was unlike the angels, who were void of emotions of this nature.

however, he was not the only jinn to be created, though their chief. while there are different types of Jinn, these classifications seem to have emerged much later. these include janns, ghuls, ifrit, sila, marid, shaitans, as well as qareen/hamzad which may come close to the notion of the familiar spirit as understood in the west. All of these jinns have particular characteristics, dominions and provinces. I can elaborate on this, if needed/requested. iblis/lucifer was a member of ifrit. ghul, ifreet and shaitan are violently opposed to the mortals. Marid, though fewest in numbers, are the oldest and most powerful of the tribes. they are powerful enough to have confronted and defeated the aforementioned three tribes, when the war to choose sides either with or against mortals erupted. this does not mean marids are in love with mortals, at best they cherish non-interference and simple disregard for mortals.

there is a school of thought within islamic sufism, but very fringe if i might add, that does interpret the first great war in heaven in a slightly different light. the view is that when Adam was brought forth, and the angels/jinn were asked to bow down to Adam, the reason iblis/lucifer refused was because he would only bow down to the one beloved he ever had, which was God. vanity, pride, passion, motives, whatever the cause, is not for me to speculate, as I can only relate what i have read & understood. when he was banished from the heavens and cast down because of this, his commit was that if man indeed is worthy of greater love, then he will ensure that man earns it. he will beguile, misdirect, tempt and corrupt every mortal until the end of time, and only the truly worthy of the men will stand fast & pass the test, live life as God would want. In the end, iblis would make the ultimate sacrifice of being consigned to eternal damnation. Nevertheless, he would ensure that only the worthy obtain the affinity & proximity of God.

i have always viewed this interpretation with reservations, since an all compassionate & benevolent God does indeed retain it within his jurisdiction to forgive and accept all mortals, in-spite of what they have done. and besides, it was not up-to iblis to provide the litmus test of the worthiness. but as i said, none of the above is an opinion, only a mention of a certain school of thought, for the benefit of those who might be interested.

I have second hand accounts from certain people who have completed what we call the 40 day "chilla", to capture these entities. extremely dangerous. some of the depictions of how the entities manifest, reminded me of the depictions i saw and read in the lesser keys of Solomon.

the evil amongst the jinn resonate with the concept of fallen angels in Judeo-Christianity. corporeal like the demons. their world exists parallel to ours, with us simply being "out of tune" with that dimension and thus not having sight and sound of it. however, select, elect few do get a window into it. at the turn of the last century, the magician Henry Slade created quite an uproar with claims/admissions of feats that could only be completed by some one who could access the fourth dimension, like tying a knot in a circle of rope without cutting it. Michio Kaku, the prominent physicist, makes a passing mention of this in his "Hyperspace".

i know of a few people whose failure in the "chilla", cost them, literally, their sanity. they are empty shells of who they were, and seem to have become out of tune with even this reality. though i know of none who died, first hand, second hand accounts of this have been flagged to me by certain friends of that circle.

When these entities finally manifest, it is usually during the last 10 days of the "Cilla", where they become increasingly violent, just as the threat to their freedom becomes increasingly pronounced with the chilla nearing completion. the discourse with these entities is riddled with minefields, and one has to be extremely prudent/cautious. intellectual challenge to them is a lost cause, and not without reason. having existed far longer than humans, having the ability to, .. shall i say, phase-shift between the parallel realities, they have obviously seen more than any mortal would ever have. the challenge must be spiritual, and driven by faith. if it becomes a contest of who is smarter, the mortal is a write-off. except, of-course, whom God decrees to prevail.

there is much more to write on this, but i am already having second thoughts on whether anyone would be interested in the gibberish i have committed here. but i ll be happy to answer any queries, if my knowledge permits. please note that my primary areas of interest are astrophysics and quantum mechanics, demonology is a mere fascination, thus i am in no way an authority on the subject. just a curious, inquisitive soul who disregards no possibility or probability on any subject, no matter how outrageous. whether it is Richard Dawkins, Aleister Crowley, Brian Greene or the Scriptures, i approach each with equal zeal.

Peace.

Originally posted by richter13
Hi Beltemps and everyone else

My first ever post in these forums so please do be kind. some very interesting posts here, i thought i would offer my two cents on this as well.

I am not subscribed & sold to my opinions & beliefs in such a way that i would be averse to admit contrasting/opposing views. nothing makes me happier than to be corrected, for then i have gained something new, knowledge-wise.

My understanding of how islam views the jinns is as follows. The "evil" amongst the jinn of Islam, and Demons of judeo-christianity to me, appear to refer to the same entities. however, not all Jinn are evil. before man came, the angels and the jinn were already created. angels were the "noori" entities, created from the light or the sacred flame. jinn were the "nari" entities, created from smokeless fire. angels without freewill, jinn with freewill.

Iblis/Lucifer, in the time before time, was one of the created beings closest to God. being born of fire, the element was dominant in his nature as well, where his understanding that none loved God more than he, was a source of pride. this was unlike the angels, who were void of emotions of this nature.

however, he was not the only jinn to be created, though their chief. while there are different types of Jinn, these classifications seem to have emerged much later. these include janns, ghuls, ifrit, sila, marid, shaitans, as well as qareen/hamzad which may come close to the notion of the familiar spirit as understood in the west. All of these jinns have particular characteristics, dominions and provinces. I can elaborate on this, if needed/requested. iblis/lucifer was a member of ifrit. ghul, ifreet and shaitan are violently opposed to the mortals. Marid, though fewest in numbers, are the oldest and most powerful of the tribes. they are powerful enough to have confronted and defeated the aforementioned three tribes, when the war to choose sides either with or against mortals erupted. this does not mean marids are in love with mortals, at best they cherish non-interference and simple disregard for mortals.

there is a school of thought within islamic sufism, but very fringe if i might add, that does interpret the first great war in heaven in a slightly different light. the view is that when Adam was brought forth, and the angels/jinn were asked to bow down to Adam, the reason iblis/lucifer refused was because he would only bow down to the one beloved he ever had, which was God. vanity, pride, passion, motives, whatever the cause, is not for me to speculate, as I can only relate what i have read & understood. when he was banished from the heavens and cast down because of this, his commit was that if man indeed is worthy of greater love, then he will ensure that man earns it. he will beguile, misdirect, tempt and corrupt every mortal until the end of time, and only the truly worthy of the men will stand fast & pass the test, live life as God would want. In the end, iblis would make the ultimate sacrifice of being consigned to eternal damnation. Nevertheless, he would ensure that only the worthy obtain the affinity & proximity of God.

i have always viewed this interpretation with reservations, since an all compassionate & benevolent God does indeed retain it within his jurisdiction to forgive and accept all mortals, in-spite of what they have done. and besides, it was not up-to iblis to provide the litmus test of the worthiness. but as i said, none of the above is an opinion, only a mention of a certain school of thought, for the benefit of those who might be interested.

I have second hand accounts from certain people who have completed what we call the 40 day "chilla", to capture these entities. extremely dangerous. some of the depictions of how the entities manifest, reminded me of the depictions i saw and read in the lesser keys of Solomon.

the evil amongst the jinn resonate with the concept of fallen angels in Judeo-Christianity. corporeal like the demons. their world exists parallel to ours, with us simply being "out of tune" with that dimension and thus not having sight and sound of it. however, select, elect few do get a window into it. at the turn of the last century, the magician Henry Slade created quite an uproar with claims/admissions of feats that could only be completed by some one who could access the fourth dimension, like tying a knot in a circle of rope without cutting it. Michio Kaku, the prominent physicist, makes a passing mention of this in his "Hyperspace".

i know of a few people whose failure in the "chilla", cost them, literally, their sanity. they are empty shells of who they were, and seem to have become out of tune with even this reality. though i know of none who died, first hand, second hand accounts of this have been flagged to me by certain friends of that circle.

When these entities finally manifest, it is usually during the last 10 days of the "Cilla", where they become increasingly violent, just as the threat to their freedom becomes increasingly pronounced with the chilla nearing completion. the discourse with these entities is riddled with minefields, and one has to be extremely prudent/cautious. intellectual challenge to them is a lost cause, and not without reason. having existed far longer than humans, having the ability to, .. shall i say, phase-shift between the parallel realities, they have obviously seen more than any mortal would ever have. the challenge must be spiritual, and driven by faith. if it becomes a contest of who is smarter, the mortal is a write-off. except, of-course, whom God decrees to prevail.

there is much more to write on this, but i am already having second thoughts on whether anyone would be interested in the gibberish i have committed here. but i ll be happy to answer any queries, if my knowledge permits. please note that my primary areas of interest are astrophysics and quantum mechanics, demonology is a mere fascination, thus i am in no way an authority on the subject. just a curious, inquisitive soul who disregards no possibility or probability on any subject, no matter how outrageous. whether it is Richard Dawkins, Aleister Crowley, Brian Greene or the Scriptures, i approach each with equal zeal.

Peace.

edit on 4-7-2011 by richter13 because: Correction

hi richter13,

interesting, seems like you u have done your research with the subject of Jinn

you say

ghul, ifreet and shaitan are violently opposed to the mortals

according to Quran Shaitan is not one type of Jinn, Shaitan like i mentioned before is a descrption or a title given to those who disobey Allah and follow the path of Iblis from Jinn or Humans, i remember that Quran mentions marid and ifret as types of Jinn but not Shaitan, Shaitan in Quran always refers to Iblis himself or any of his followers.

janns: synonym to Jinn in arabic, you can say Jinn or Jann and mean the same thing, not a type of Jinn
ghuls: not mentioned in Quran but were known by the pre-islamic arabs
ifrit: mentioned in Quran, specifically in the story of solmon
sila: never heard of them
marid: mentioned in Quran
qareen: it is said by Mohammad that every human being has a Gene tied to him/her, thats qareen

i do agree with you that the evils of Jinn are those who are called Demons in the west.

Salam/Peace

I have a djinn attached to me and have for five years now. I have seen the shadow man and a very strange cat, that went down a hall way with nothing but walls. I jumped out of my seat to see the cat, but it was gone. It had no where to go and it was gone. I once sat back and felt a reptile like creature wiggle out from under me. I saw nothing but it's the best description of what it felt like. This Djinn must have been with other more evil djinn when it first approached me, all though I actually feel something in this ordeal has been with me for all of this life and maybe before. Had you talked to me about other lives 6 or more years ago, I would've said you were crazy. Anyway, something in that house was down right evil, but what ever followed me to my next place doesn't seem that bad, except in my lucid dreams. So what touches me through out the day? What enters my dreams and tries to scare the crap out of me, but can't any more because I either fight it, or laugh at it or both. Is this the purpose of the being? It's purpose is to scare me to the point I become stronger ? It's working, I must say. It's not leaving and it's not hurting me, so I gave up on trying to get rid of it. Strange, very strange indeed!