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Are you really an American?

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posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Mob rule and democracy are very different things. And hate to tell you, but "just move to another state" isn't really a valid answer. it's a hugely expensive and high-risk venture.

It's not simply a matter of "this policy sucks, I'm out of here," it's a matter of "this policy sucks but i have a mortgage on this house and my wife is pregnant and all my family and friends live here and I can't afford to buy or rent a new home in the more costly state just over the border and I don't know if there are any job prospects over there."

Now imagine a mob rule state that exacts stiff penalties on those who want to leave. Oh, they won't be billed as such, since that's against the constitution. But there could be heavy, heavy taxes for those who sell property and leave the state, for instance. Sort of like how Jim Crow laws never stated anything about black people, they simply raised the bar to an impossible height for the lower end of a segregated society to jump.




posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Nice Post. S&F. And yes America is in bad shape right now but I'm here for the long haul. I will do everything in my power to help make positive change. This is my home regardless of what an illegal government in D.C. says or does.

Also, I looove Norway. I have a lot of family in Norway and Sweden. Beautiful place with great people. Although they don't like to speak English lol (not all of them). I thought about moving there too. Only problem is their laws are too restrictive to me. Mostly gun laws (yes I'm a gun nut).



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Cuervo
 




It's not simply a matter of "this policy sucks, I'm out of here," it's a matter of "this policy sucks but i have a mortgage on this house and my wife is pregnant and all my family and friends live here and I can't afford to buy or rent a new home in the more costly state just over the border and I don't know if there are any job prospects over there."



This is the same problem you have now. Only now you have to denounce your citizenship to escape. Also... I don't know why people are sooooo bleak about our fellow Americans to think we would revert to some 1950's nightmare.

Maybe it's this site that makes you think such. I've encountered more bigotry and racism on this site than I ever have in person (and I've lived in both urban and rural areas) so perhaps it's shaped your expectations of how people really are? Keep in mind, the majority of people living in any given state will not vote for repressive/racist laws and legislation requires a majority.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


Do some research on him. Even the Dem's like him because he does not waiver on his positions no matter how unpopular they are. He has conviction, he is straight forward and uncompromising. Show me any other candidate that has that kind of track record stretching back 30 years...not ONE!

Like another poster, my family came here in the early 1600's. We were from the royal court sent here to colonize Virginia. I love my country, I have served to defend her and will continue to defend her, even at the cost of my life. Most people in America are like my wife. They don't want to know the truth because it is too depressing. However, unlike other Americans, if it came down to it she would also defend her freedoms. There was a slogan floating around during the mid-terms that really needs to be shouted at our current government:

BY VOTE OR BY FORCE, YOU WILL CHANGE!
edit on 3-6-2011 by haarvik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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My ancestors werent immigrants.. so Im an US American. My ancestors fought for this country.. so Im an US American. Ive been all over the world and lived in other countries for periods of time.. and there is no place I love better than this country. So, rather then tuck tail and run away when the going is rough, Im here for the long haul. Nothing will ever change here until we all stop sticking our heads in the sand or running off to find greener grass when it gets tough.

My .02.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
I am from the South and am female. I genuinely shudder to think what my life would be like without the federal government's interference. The LAST thing I want is for my state to be able to go gung-ho with its own backwards policies.


Originally posted by FatedAxion
Backwards or not, it would be democracy there. A person would still be protected under the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Right now, the federal government imposes many laws that people are struggling under and they can't get away from them unless they move out of the nation. If each nation were responsible for its own policies, you could simply cross the state border to find a nation in the federation you agree with. Why would you want to live in the south if you don't agree with the majority of your neighbors? If I lived in the south, it wouldn't be for long because I know I don't belong there.

There will be total anarchy/capitalist states, socialist states, and some states that are just like the current hybrid. More freedoms, more choices, more happy people. A much truer democracy for sure.


Let's not forget, above all, the U.S. is a republic. Within the U.S. each state is a democracy of sorts.
If the citizens of each democracy realized the power they possess to change laws and circumstances, eventually the republic would fall and an united democracy would rise from its ashes. Until then its Manifest Destiny.

Remember the Roman Empire? They were a republic, too, filled with corrupt politicians and figureheads who were drunk with power. Where is this great empire today? Oh, that's right, it fell, just like the U.S. will fall if it keeps on the path that has been chosen for it.

As a natural-born American I look forward to the time when this happens and the Constitution regains its rightful place as the foundation of our great land. But it won't happen without bloodshed and sacrifice, as it was so eloquently stated by one of our founding fathers:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Advantage
My ancestors werent immigrants.. so Im an US American. My ancestors fought for this country.. so Im an US American.


So... your ancestors weren't immigrants. And they also fought for this nation? I don't know about you but my Native American ancestors fought for this nation, too. And lost.

Did your Native American ancestors fight a different war?



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 



Originally posted by Advantage
My ancestors werent immigrants.. so Im an US American. My ancestors fought for this country.. so Im an US American.




So... your ancestors weren't immigrants. And they also fought for this nation? I don't know about you but my Native American ancestors fought for this nation, too. And lost.


Your ancestors didn't have a "nation". They had hunting ranges which they constantly defended from encroachment by other Native Americans.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas


Your ancestors didn't have a "nation". They had hunting ranges which they constantly defended from encroachment by other Native Americans.


That is still a nation.

from wiki:


A nation can refer to a sovereign state,[1] as for instance in the member states of the United Nations,[2] or to a community of people who share a common language, descent, history, and, although not necessarily, a common government.[1] In the United States, the word is also used to refer to a tribe of North American Indians, such as the Cherokee Nation.[1]

World Book Dictionary defines nation as “the people occupying the same country, united under the same government, and usually speaking the same language”. Another definition is that nation is a “sovereign state.” It also says nation can refer to “a people, race, or tribe; those having the same descent, language, and history.” World Book Dictionary also gives this definition: “a tribe of North American Indians.” Webster’s New Encyclopedic Dictionary defines nation as “a community of people composed of one or more nationalities with its own territory and government” and also as “a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians)”.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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my mom traced my dad's family tree to about 1660 I think, so yes

but more to the point, being of Norwegian descent, I have thought about it as well. Fantisized about it ! But to actually sever the ties and make the move, I could never do it.

My parents went to Norway 2 years ago, they loved it. The younger generation speaks english. I live in CT, and I probably will for life

,02



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


A nation without borders is not a nation.



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


A nation without borders is not a nation.


Perhaps according to your own, personal, made up definition, but not according to any formal definition in, like, a dictionary or anything...



posted on Jun, 5 2011 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


A nation without borders is not a nation.


Perhaps according to your own, personal, made up definition, but not according to any formal definition in, like, a dictionary or anything...



Yeah, well......Not only did the native people lack defined borders, but they also didn't have a Flag, or an anthem or an established set of arbitrary rules created out of the imaginations of the ruling class and set down, in writing, then pronounced as Law, and backed up by Force by yet another established group of individuals.

And those are just a couple of examples of how the Native Savages were not living by the established rules, which we made up, thereby defining what is and is not a Real Nation of People with Rights to Occupy the Land they Currently Inhabit!!! Maybe next time those savage natives will take the time to read OUR RULES before trying to claim ownership to the land we decide to take from them!!

(Heavy on the Sarcasm, in case you missed it!!!)



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 



"A nation without [secure] borders is not a nation."

- Ronald Reagan


Quote This

I'll take his word over yours, thank you.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 



"A nation without [secure] borders is not a nation."

- Ronald Reagan


Quote This

I'll take his word over yours, thank you.


And by doing so, you'll continue to be incorrect. Take the advice of incrediblelousminds and get yourself a dictionary when you need the correct definition of a word.

BTW, you should know that the word [secure] in your above quote is in brackets which means it was added in and not part of the original statement. Not that it matters anyway since with or without it, it would still be wrong as defining a "Nation".



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 



"A nation without [secure] borders is not a nation."

- Ronald Reagan


Quote This

I'll take his word over yours, thank you.


Dude, what?! That psychopath also "redefined" economics into voodoo economics, doubled our national debt, and created the S&L crisis. He's also the man who impeded Truman's policies that ultimately won the cold war... then he got credit for it!

You would take his senile words over a dictionary?

The whole Native American issue only came up in the first place because some dude claimed his ancestors weren't immigrants and that they fought to defend it. I think he was equally confused.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 




Dude, what?! That psychopath also "redefined" economics into voodoo economics, doubled our national debt, and created the S&L crisis. He's also the man who impeded Truman's policies that ultimately won the cold war... then he got credit for it!

You would take his senile words over a dictionary?

The whole Native American issue only came up in the first place because some dude claimed his ancestors weren't immigrants and that they fought to defend it. I think he was equally confused.


All of you defending your loose concept of nation have got to give it up. The Oakland Raiders have a fan club named Raider Nation. The Red Sox have Red Sox Nation. They even have a president.

But for purposes of commerce, laws, etc, you must have defined borders. Same as your property line, How about if your neighbor starts digging up your lawn because he wants to put a Jiffy Lube in?

To "Dude" - Reagan was a genius and a great man.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by Cuervo
 




Dude, what?! That psychopath also "redefined" economics into voodoo economics, doubled our national debt, and created the S&L crisis. He's also the man who impeded Truman's policies that ultimately won the cold war... then he got credit for it!

You would take his senile words over a dictionary?

The whole Native American issue only came up in the first place because some dude claimed his ancestors weren't immigrants and that they fought to defend it. I think he was equally confused.


All of you defending your loose concept of nation have got to give it up. The Oakland Raiders have a fan club named Raider Nation. The Red Sox have Red Sox Nation. They even have a president.

But for purposes of commerce, laws, etc, you must have defined borders. Same as your property line, How about if your neighbor starts digging up your lawn because he wants to put a Jiffy Lube in?

To "Dude" - Reagan was a genius and a great man.


Ugh... words mean things. Words are not defined by politicians. In the case of "nation", it is defined by geographers and other people who can read.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 



"A nation without [secure] borders is not a nation."

- Ronald Reagan


Quote This

I'll take his word over yours, thank you.


Okay, but in that quote from Reagan he is not offering a dictionary definition of 'nation'. He's being quoted in reference to his idea of strong borders. No one is looking to Ronald Reagan, or any politicians, for a definition of a word. We use dictionaries for that.

In addition, I did not offer MY 'word', I offered a few references to dictionary definitions.

If you want to ignore what basically every dictionary offers as a definition that's fine, but you look awfully silly in the process.



posted on Jun, 6 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 




In addition, I did not offer MY 'word', I offered a few references to dictionary definitions.

If you want to ignore what basically every dictionary offers as a definition that's fine, but you look awfully silly in the process.


Dusty old books need to be updated. And you are truly being silly if you discount the borders element.

Your definition is merely esoteric. Technically correct, but useless in today's modern terms. But stick with it...

And why don't you answer my statement about property lines? Because I gotcha, is why!






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