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Here we go again... Religion(s)!

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posted on May, 29 2011 @ 05:18 AM
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Well hell-o...

This will be my first thread, so hear me out!


I have come to realise something (in the past 5-10 minutes regarding another thread www.abovetopsecret.com... )

Perhaps some people choose the path of Atheism isn't because they know there isn't a god or perhaps logic is more appealing, or what ever reason (throw them in if you like!
- Just as long as you explain!)

But maybe, we choose the path of Atheism because we appreciate life more (not in a way that we are in harmony with everyone, because let's face it, we have a long way to go before anyone accomplishes that entirely) OR makes "us" appreciate more for ourselves.

This thread probably isn't as clear as I would have liked to have made it but it's all good, healthy fun!


Jamie.




posted on May, 29 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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you are right the thread isn't that clear.. well not for me anyway. But my opinion on Atheists, is that sometimes (not always), they have had or their family has had a bad experience with a church (normally Catholic), however they could also of had an upbringing of having it rammed down their thoughts as such, and not really had a chance to say otherwise, just as many people have had with religion, same concept differing origin.

I'm not sure if this answers your question but I gave it a shot.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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reply to post by Dominikas
 


I dont understand why atheists come in for so much flack. Being from the UK, I know very few religious people, most are either atheists or agnostics. Religion certainly does not have the same stature in UK as it does in the US.

We have also grown up with great natural history education, from Darwin to David Attenborough, people who force you to question the science and claims laid out in the bible. Many now are not prepared to take blind faith with religion without the evidence we demand for other aspects of our lives.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I'm not trying to 'flack' atheists, I'm simply saying that some people have had bad experiences with some churches. and that neither side can truly and undeniably prove anything.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by Dominikas
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


I'm not trying to 'flack' atheists, I'm simply saying that some people have had bad experiences with some churches. and that neither side can truly and undeniably prove anything.


So your now saying that an Atheist can only come to be through bad experiences with Church? Not because Atheism is truly the Human mind trying to free itself from the tyranny of cultists that try and rule the world?

Jamie.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by pandapowerjamie
 


Note in my first post I said sometimes not all the time, and yes I do agree that some churches Take liberties with human freedom, I'd be a fool to believe they didn't.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Dominikas
 

ahahahahaha, that's right, always blame the catholics.


When a catholic does something wrong, the whole world screams for blood. When a protestant does the same thing, nobody seems to give a dam.......



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 


Sorry first thought that came to mind with all of the news in the last few months, I'm sure every religion has had its bad news coverage.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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To be honest,I'm starting to find atheists more annoying than the churchy types,i wear a crucifix on a neck lace,not because I'm overly religious,but because my grandmother gave it to me,this halfwit atheists i work with,saw it and got on his high horse and started his atheist rant,i explained why i wore the crucifix,then he proceeded to question my grandmother's intelligence,luckily for him the other guys grabbed my before i knocked him out,believe don't believe i really don't give a toss,start talking crap about my 85 year old grandmother and i will fire up,bottom line if someone chooses to believe something you don't how the hell does it affect you?i understand someone preaching at you can be very annoying,but then atheist harping on all the time is just as annoying in my book,



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by Travlla
To be honest,I'm starting to find atheists more annoying than the churchy types,i wear a crucifix on a neck lace,not because I'm overly religious,but because my grandmother gave it to me,this halfwit atheists i work with,saw it and got on his high horse and started his atheist rant,i explained why i wore the crucifix,then he proceeded to question my grandmother's intelligence,luckily for him the other guys grabbed my before i knocked him out,believe don't believe i really don't give a toss,start talking crap about my 85 year old grandmother and i will fire up,bottom line if someone chooses to believe something you don't how the hell does it affect you?i understand someone preaching at you can be very annoying,but then atheist harping on all the time is just as annoying in my book,


Not quite sure where you want to go with your one-person example, but if you have any further direction at all, I'll be more than happy to be your intellectual sparring-partner for a while on the subject of theism/atheism.

And not belonging to any of these two categories myself, I MAY even on occasion be unbiased.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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It took seven days to create everything.


That did it for me. I went to church steadily until I was 13, frequented until 16. Then I had an awakening. None of the questions I had were properly addressed. "It is faith."......Well that just does not do it for me. I realized that to be religous you have to be a follower. A follower of something that you must believe in because it is right.... Now that logic is way off.

I do not wish to follow someone just because everyone else does. Or because their father's father made them go to church. So their grandson had to go, and it is a never ending cycle of "faith".

Faith to follow someone to save you. Save you when you die. The problem is you cannot test drive it in the afterlife
I see it as a scam that you cannot disprove.

Just me anyways. Carry on desciples of religion.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 10:27 AM
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Do atheists doubt the "truths" of religions? Do atheists deny their personal specific version of what they believe God is? Do atheists deny the fact that there is a possibility that the universe was created?

why hold any beliefs on the matter if both sides are unknowable?

Is it true that no matter what mans religion says, or what man/woman says they believe, all living things on earth have come about due to the same cosmic process? Is that process what the idea of god is describing?



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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In our house there are 2 Christians, 1 Agnostic, 1 Atheist and 1 Too Young To Decide. We all respect each other's beliefs and don't try to cram our personal beliefs down each other's throats. The point is, if this can work in one house it can work everywhere if people would just quit trying to force their personal beliefs on everybody else!



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


I'm not an atheist, but I've been around for a while and do often have the same critical relationship to some types of theist mindsets, as atheists have. So I feel myself competent to answer.

You wrote: ["Do atheists doubt the "truths" of religions?"]

If you with 'truths' mean predigested or doctrinal answers, I guess most religionist-critics reject them. But then, for the more advanced, 'truth' can be considered concerning the method you use to get answers. Some of the more complex threads on ATS are about that.

Quote: [" Do atheists deny their personal specific version of what they believe God is?"]

It's questionable if any atheist have a personal version of what 'god' is, that's kind of the whole point. Some may have ideas on similar lines as mine (a metaphysical/'mystic' position), where trans-cosmic existence is possible, but not peopled with 'gods' etc.

Quote: ["Do atheists deny the fact that there is a possibility that the universe was created?"]

That's called gnostic atheism, and isn't common. Most atheists on ATS are agnostic atheists.

Quote: ["why hold any beliefs on the matter if both sides are unknowable?"]

Exactly. But missionaries will always be missionaries.

Quote: ["Is it true that no matter what mans religion says, or what man/woman says they believe, all living things on earth have come about due to the same cosmic process? Is that process what the idea of god is describing?"]

The fist step in sorting out this would be to bring order in the semantics. The word 'god' is far from neutral and can't be used in non-theist contexts.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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I am an Atheist,I was raised Lutheran (that's Catholic light)
I love religion and the idea of God I just noticed many holes in the story I was fed started researching on my own and found out that yup it's all a bunch of misunderstood translations .

I am now on board with the AAH not because Sitchin says so, but because I read and believed the ancient books

there is no God we are on our own, the Bible is the good cop bad cop version of an even older set of religious doctrines designed to make us useable and nonresistant to another lifeform that calls itself GOD

they say they are superior to us but if they were they wouldn't need to hide from us and lie to us
they are some kind of vampire like things

I have it in my head that a Creator God would love us, I don't see that one.

so I'm not a proud Atheist just an Atheist until the real God shows up



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Dominikas
 


It's okay, you gave me a laugh


I agree with your general sentiments, but I would replace the word catholic with Christians. And by Christians I mean protestants and catholics.

Believe me, I know plenty of protestant folk that have become atheist because of the way the church has treated them too.
edit on 29-5-2011 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Thanks for the response!

I guess kind of what I was getting at, or would like to ask, is do you think that regardless of what we say, there is only ONE real way things actually are, and regardless of what we say and believe that way to be, we are all part of that same way? Now the morals and rituals and rites of certain religions maybe beneficial to the body and mind and give a great platform for living ones life, but this can by no means be considered as to know the real way things are, I wonder if any human being has ever correctly envisioned reality. Like flowers that grow in fields depending on region so has religion, or a code of conduct, sprouted in many different forms and colors. This was not a problem and could only be seen as a positive collective expereince really feeling at one with ones tribe, community, or village. It became a problem as time went on and regions tribes, communities, or villages came in contact and conflict with ones of different ways, however the ways of men do not disturb the fact that all men are yielded from this earth and return to it the same. Do you think it would be beneficial or acceptable for all humans to be on the same page under the same beliefs or lack of beliefs, maybe even commandments of unanswerable questions that unite us all humbly and harmoniously?



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by markosity1973
 


Yes that what my original post was supposed to be like
, as I said the Catholic just came to mind.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 

Not really looking for debate matey,just giving an example of how atheists can be as annoying as bible types,it's as if atheism has become some twisted religion of it's own,as i said believe, don't believe i don't really care, what other people believe is really none of my business,



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


And thanks for your interesting RE.

Sorry if I sometimes get carried away in an ivory-tower language. It's difficult to use 'normal' language in some of the contexts I move around in.

As to the option of 'absolutes'/ultimate truth/ultimate reality (knowledge or method), I personally rely much on the concept 'perspective'. Things 'are' what they seem be from where you look at them.

This does not imply a wishy-washy relativism, perspectives can be refined and become more valid and/or inclusive.

But to go to your question. In the scope of human knowledge and understanding some similar (almost identical) concepts exist, variously called 'free will', 'chaos' (in the scientific meaning), 'observer-created existence' etc. all of which implies that the mundane frames (what we 'experience' and can conceptualize) are insufficient. Our ways of experiencing and consequently arriving at 'answers' don't seem to be up to expectations, because the extent of truth/reality we are able to grasp is 'fluid', it changes according to our perspectives and also to our participation in existence.

This has in the very old and ongoing debate between 'absolutes'/ultimate truth/reality (philosophically called positivism) and relativism led to the formulation of the hypothesis, that 'consciousness' as such is THE end-station, where consciousness can create its own rules and situations 'on the way'.

It's a charming and attractive hypothesis, and I personally like it quite much. But the problem is, that mankind actually knows very little about what 'consciousness' is. Mostly it's just a label we stick on the unknown.

But there is a way out of this, which some individuals find useful and worthwhile. An individual research/study/acquaintance with the 'consciousness' (whatever it is) we all have in ourselves. It goes under the names of 'the inner path', the mystic experience, science of mind etc. and is a method with some merits to it.

But then if it suits other than me is a personal choice.

Hope this was understandable, and not me getting ahead of myself (again).



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