ENERGY: Reducing Oil Dependency

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posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:03 PM
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The White House has responded to the need of reducing oil dependency by launching a hydrogen initiative. However hydrogen is not an energy source. It is a carrier of energy. For hydrogen to replace fossil fuels, extremely large-scale programs of solar power, wind power, fission, or fusion must be developed to produce it. Unlike Iceland where there is plenty of geothermal energy to support a hydrogen based economy the Bush White House has a dirty secret.
 



President Bush promises that fuel-cell cars will be free of pollution. But if he has his way, the cars of tomorrow will run on hydrogen made from fossil fuels.


If the move away from oil dependency is through hydrogen, I am not aware of plans to invest in the alternative energy infrastructure that such an economy would necessitate. In addition to creating employment in new sectors, investment in those alternative energies would help reduce oil dependency in and of themselves much faster, while laying the ground work for hydrogen vehicles when the time comes. If that IS what we want to replace the outdated internal combustion engine?

Other countries are already well on their way to reducing oil dependency.

Germany is experiencing a boom in solar energy following the introduction of the Renewable Energies Laws. "Germany was the fastest growing major photovoltaic market in the world in 2003. According to estimates, the German solar market generated total revenues of over 800 million euros in 2003." They are growing so fast that Germany was facing shortage of solar cells due to shooting demand in the domestic market. They are already looking to outsource production. Source

Meanwhile in the US:

The cost of installing solar energy is finally within reach for many Americans, but people who have waited for this seemingly opportune time are being told to move to the back of the line. U.S. manufacturers of solar panels are sending products to the lucrative German and Japanese markets, casting a shadow over the domestic solar industry. Source


The Europeans are also ahead in wind energy and achieving 30-40% yearly growth rates.

Germany is leading the European expansion, commissioning 1,896 MW of wind energy in the first nine months of 2002, with Spain in second place with 742 MW. Countries which have made good progress after a relatively quiet spell include the Netherlands. France moved into tenth place in the league table with 131 MW. Austria celebrated its 100 MW landmark on the back of one of the highest situated wind farms in the world - at 1,900 metres in the Styrian Alps. source


In an older report on the Wind Market, Greenpeace reported that China, India, Africa and South America were also investing. source

In Canada we have an installed wind capacity of 341 megawats that is in many cases an investment by Provincial Electric Crown Corporations, which is sort-of government support (source). And there is a private market as well (example).

In the US there is also a burgeoning private market (example) as well as some larger projects like this one: Sierra Solar Commissions Largest Residential Photovoltaic System in California at 57 KW!

The Republicans have got it all wrong in my humble opinion. The Bush administration's answer to oil dependence is using tax dollars to support hydrogen without a renewable infrastructure and securing foreign oil supplies.

[edit on 4/9/2005 by Gools]




posted on Aug, 8 2004 @ 01:13 AM
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Just ran across this story on Coast to Coast's website, I don't have much comment right now as I'm about to head off to bed now.



Quote Source First power from Hemisphere's largest wind farm

Thursday, 05 August 2004 Media Statement


First power from site of Southern Hemisphere's largest wind farm

Electricity from the first turbines to be commissioned at Meridian's Te Apiti site near Palmerston North will today be connected to the national grid by Energy Minister, Pete Hodgson. With a total planned capacity of 90 MW, the site is set to be the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere.

"Wind power is enjoying unprecedented growth in New Zealand and is on track to have grown four fold by the end of the year to April 2005. Nationally, our wind resource is capable of supporting developments that could provide over 20 per cent of all our power needs," says Pete Hodgson.


This project hopfully will spur the development of other large scale windfarms across the world. To say the least, it is a hopful sign that things are starting to get going in the "Alternative" Energy Industry.



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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The problem with countries breaking away from traditional, non-renewable resources are that, renewable dont tend to produce as much energy. However I think the way forward would have to be something such as solar power or wind. Ok they dont exactly produce as much but are a lot safer.

Final Verdict: Renewable will be considered when all non has be used up which is kinda sad



posted on Aug, 13 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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How much would it cost to setup Hydrogen plants in different sections of the United States and subsidize putting in Hydrogen tanks at equal distanced gas stations across the whole country?

- Was



posted on Aug, 14 2004 @ 09:05 AM
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The Kerry/Edwards Energy Plan is a move towards independence from foreign sources. They don't go nearly far enough IMHO. www.johnkerry.com...
While the rest of the planet moves away from dependence on fossile fuels, We search for the last remaining reserves. Many Conservatives contend that oil is not in fact an exhaustable resourse. Only time will tell whom is right on this. Have we reached "peak oil"?www.peakoil.net...

This Nation, our entire world in fact, will have to make tremendous changes in the near future. Gone will be large centralized population centers, replaced by the more rural model of our own agrarian past. I cannot believe that this will come easily. If, as the majority of scientists are correct, we run out of fossil fules by the end of the first quater of the century, we are headed for major upheaval.

Our political leaders have had their collective heads in the sand for some 40 years already. They worry about panicking the populous if it becomes common knowledge that cheap fuel days are coming to an ignominious end. What are the consequences of ignoring the issue untill this late date?

I sincerely hope that a Democratic administration can address the issue head-on. My confidence is not high, but I feel less confident in a Republican administration which attacks the issue by attacking the last few countries with significant oil reserves.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by scottsquared
The Kerry/Edwards Energy Plan is a move towards independence from foreign sources. www.johnkerry.com...

First, they state the problem, and then the answer is mostly already law. Further, Kerry and the democrats are for renewable engery sources as long as it doesn’t effect thier way of life.
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.capecodonline.com...

Originally posted by scottsquared
While the rest of the planet moves away from dependence on fossile fuels, We search for the last remaining reserves.

As long as it remains fiscally prudent for the centralized sources of energy to utilize fossil fuels then that is what will remain. Besides Solar and re-newables are not a federal issue, they are a market issue when it is fiscally prudent they will be the main source.

Originally posted by scottsquared
Many Conservatives contend that oil is not in fact an exhaustable resourse.

What conservative’s? sounds more like smear than fact.

Originally posted by scottsquared
Our political leaders have had their collective heads in the sand for some 40 years already. They worry about panicking the populous if it becomes common knowledge that cheap fuel days are coming to an ignominious end.

Were do you think that most of the advance is PVs come from….I’ll give you a clue it ain’t foreign.
www.sandia.gov...
www.energylan.sandia.gov...
www.eere.energy.gov...



posted on Apr, 9 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Update

This thread was originally posted in the Election 2004 Issues Forum. It only got a few responses at the time.

Please ignore the political party platforms in the responses above since those are not really relevant at this point. I don't want this to degenerate into a left v. right type of thing.

Peak oil affects everybody.

I thought I would revive this thread in the hopes that people could add what they know about their local, state/provincial and federal government programs for reducing Oil Dependency.

Iceland is the only country I know of that is really moving away from oil. (link) Of course you have to be willing to live on top of volcanos which is probably why Iceland will be the world's only truly "fossil-free" economy for the forseeable future.

So how are your governments addressing the peak oil issue? Is it even on the radar?
.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Gools
The White House has responded to the need of reducing oil dependency by launching a hydrogen initiative. However hydrogen is not an energy source. It is a carrier of energy. For hydrogen to replace fossil fuels, extremely large-scale programs of solar power, wind power, fission, or fusion must be developed to produce it. Unlike Iceland where there is plenty of geothermal energy to support a hydrogen based economy the Bush White House has a dirty secret.


I've been looking for this subject as a good think-tank project, this is close to a start. In the statement above "hydrogen is not an energy source" is not correct as hydrogen is the source of energy of the sun. Gasoline is a carrier of both Hydrogen and Carbon, both when oxidized (burn) produce (E)nergy. The problem lies in the fact that we need to change carriers, stuffing pure H into bottles is just plain dangerous so having static charges socker-moms with knit pants sliding on the seat of a buick in a Hydrogen Station could result in some undesirable effects. Several proposals the bind the hydrogen with another molecule that allows storage at lower pressures/normal temeratures is the holy grail of oils replacement. www.csmonitor.com...
www.allpar.com...
(search for soap+hydorgen+fuel+cell for more results).
Is one example of a carrier, what other forms could we find that are easier to produce for low cost.

Another source is sugar, grain and wood alcohols, found this link -
ecosyn.us...
something to feed your brain on the site. The more you look at this stuff and understand the chemistry, the more you see that just simply producing in mass quantities gets a little impracticle. The best bet is to see some of these oil exploration monies shifted to these sources and start larger scale production. Biodiesel as shown the biggest move in the last 2 years. some of the alcohol technologies have been around for a while, which one shows the most prommise of replacing the crude dependancy?





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