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Question for the political people in here Obama,4th amendment,Arizona,illegal aliens

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posted on May, 28 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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First off let me state that I'm trying to be non bias in this question and would like it if people explained the situation to me if I'm wrong without bashing me or this thread. lately there has been a lot of Obama bashing on here but i would really like to hear his supporters explain this to me.

Given how Obama handled the Arizona law dealing with illegals why isn't he handling this 4th amendment situation the same way? I don't understand how he could get all up in arms about the AZ law and completely ignore this one seeing as how it effects every American.

To me asking for id and papers when someone is driving and out on the street is a given i have had to do it my self. So why is it racist to ask people if they are illegal aliens and to prove they are citizens? When i drive a car i have to prove i have a driver license,insurance, and registration just to be on the road. If the cops wanted to stop me walking i have to have Id on me or i can get a fine.

Now add in the situation in Indiana where cops can bust into your house without a search warrant and arrest you. Yet i hear nothing from Obama, nothing from the Latino communities so mad about their freedoms, This leaves me with a question why are illegal aliens allowed to break the law we American have to follow? Why is Obama not condemning this like he did with Arizona. Why isn't president Calderon condemning this?




posted on May, 28 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


It's called the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

The Cloward/Piven Strategy is another method employed by the radical Left to create and manage crisis. This strategy explains Rahm Emanuel's ominous statement, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."


The Cloward/Piven Strategy is named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their goal is to overthrow capitalism by overwhelming the government bureaucracy with entitlement demands. The created crisis provides the impetus to bring about radical political change.

www.americanthinker.com...



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by pcrobotwolf
 


I'am aware this is kind of a loaded question Obama supporters but still please try and answer this for me. Wheres the sword, where are his followers when the real questions are asked? What about his handling of the flood,and tornado stuff going on where is his compassion for them?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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obama handling the arizona law is quite simple

the democrats want the largest voting block in this country and that is the hispanic vote

issues are nothing more that getting and maintaining votes to stay in power.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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oh I don't know... maybe the NAU...

if you believe that this is where North America is going then it would make sense that Obama would not want to prosecute Mexicans, at the same time weaken the bill of rights, while strengthening the police state... and of course calderon would go along...
edit on 28-5-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: clarity



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
To me asking for id and papers when someone is driving and out on the street is a given i have had to do it my self.


I see a very big different between the recent Arizona law that cracks down on businsses hiring illegals and the previous law that allowed officers to ask anybody for papers. The previous Arizona law did not merely give police officers the ability to ask somebody for papers in their cars. Why do I say this? because police officers were already doing this well before this law came out. Ever seen an episode of cops? When police officers would randomly stop vehicles and ask for ID? That was never the issue to begin with, and it has always been done. We did not need the Arizona law to allow police officers to do what they had already been doing and rightfully so. Driving a vehicle is a privilage, not a right.

The real problem with the previous Arizona law was that it left no boundaries for what law enforcement could do. Read the bill:


FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

www.azleg.gov...

Where are the lines drawn on what police officers can do? There are none. Do you know what lawful contact is? Lawful contact can be a police officer coming to your home, knocking on your door, and suspecting that you do not belong there and you are breaking in. Police officers could essentially approach any person anywhere and request their papers. I'm astounded that many people still make excuses about this law, it's invasive. But then again we all know full well that this law was only targeted to a certain ethnic group of the community.

I had a friend once who was harassed by police in his own home because police suspected him of breaking in. No warrant, there was know attempt to investigate him further. He simply made a complaint and police were held accountable. This law would allow law enforcement to get off scot free for their actions, on your property.

It's amazing how quick people are willing to give up their constitutional rights to privacy and property, especially when it involves a demographic of the community. We saw it shortly after the september 11th attacks, we saw it last year.


So why is it racist to ask people if they are illegal aliens and to prove they are citizens?


There is obviously nothing racist about asking illegals to prove their citizenship, you are putting a large assumption on how this law would work. You're under the assumption that illegal aliens can easily be distinguished among the american population, they can't. There is something very wrong about police officers targeting hispanics and other minorities in their properties, at other public places, out of their cars, with their families, for ID. This isn't the 1960's anymore.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
First off let me state that I'm trying to be non bias in this question and would like it if people explained the situation to me if I'm wrong without bashing me or this thread. lately there has been a lot of Obama bashing on here but i would really like to hear his supporters explain this to me.

Given how Obama handled the Arizona law dealing with illegals why isn't he handling this 4th amendment situation the same way? I don't understand how he could get all up in arms about the AZ law and completely ignore this one seeing as how it effects every American.

To me asking for id and papers when someone is driving and out on the street is a given i have had to do it my self. So why is it racist to ask people if they are illegal aliens and to prove they are citizens? When i drive a car i have to prove i have a driver license,insurance, and registration just to be on the road. If the cops wanted to stop me walking i have to have Id on me or i can get a fine.

Now add in the situation in Indiana where cops can bust into your house without a search warrant and arrest you. Yet i hear nothing from Obama, nothing from the Latino communities so mad about their freedoms, This leaves me with a question why are illegal aliens allowed to break the law we American have to follow? Why is Obama not condemning this like he did with Arizona. Why isn't president Calderon condemning this?


Dear pcrobotwolf,

Firstly, I wish to say that I do not support Obama and I didn't support Bush. I haven't liked any president in decades. The 4th Amendment is there to protect you and I from unreasonable searches and seizures. When you are stopped and asked for your license it is because it is presumed you have one, it is a requirement to have one to drive. The same is not true of citizenship and you don't have to be a citizen to be here, you could be visiting. There is no reasonable suspicion that someone is here illegally just because they don't speak English. Many rural places in Texas, Arizona and California have been primarily Hispanic and still speak Spanish. The Mexicans were here first in the west.

Something else you might want to consider is how they are supposed to prove their citizenship, are they to carry around their birth certificate at all times? Then we would all have to do it. I don't like having to carry my papers, too totalitarian for me. And by the way, I didn't think you were bashing and I am not attempting to bash you, I am trying to answer your question from a legal perspective.

If we truly care about the constitution we have to want the whole thing followed. The media whips people into a frenzy by giving slanted and partial information, the public demands corrective action and the people support ignoring the constitution. Same with the citizenship issue, born here means citizen and it has always been read that way; but, currently there is a move to eliminate it because of "Anchor babies", what people don't understand is that the real attack is to make citizenship a privilege rather than a right and that means we would have two types of citizens. Full and partial.



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