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Chemtrailers, I'm calling you out!

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Because there is ZERO evidence of these low level contrails too. If you think they are real, get document and prove them. Perceptions and feelings do not count.


Really? I trust my perception and feelings more than I trust you..
At least my mind isn't closed and already made up..

I honestly don't even know why you people come in these threads..
You have NO intention of debating...




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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I honestly don't even know why you people come in these threads.


www.youtube.com...



I think that my mind is made up on this subject. So you can say it is closed. But "if" and I do stress "if" chemtrails are real, and there is real evidence, irrefutable evidence, I will bow down and say, "you guy's were right." Not necessarily talking about you. I know your stance on the subject. I thought I would have a little fun with the you people thing.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 



I thought I would have a little fun with the you people thing.


No probs, 'You People" seems like a popular moniker on ATS.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by firepilot
 


Because there is ZERO evidence of these low level contrails too. If you think they are real, get document and prove them. Perceptions and feelings do not count.


Really? I trust my perception and feelings more than I trust you..
At least my mind isn't closed and already made up..

I honestly don't even know why you people come in these threads..
You have NO intention of debating...


Actually I do, and I have brought forth information, science, data and facts. That is part of debate.

You feel that planes may be low. but you have no evidence that they are. I am totally willing to look at evidence to the contrary, but since chemtrailers cant even identify aircraft correctly, do not understand why jet powered aircraft need to fly up high, since chemtrailers often will not even agree that the air at those altitudes is bitterly cold, it would be silly to just take a chemtrailers feeling as fact, when they cant even understand simple things like that.

I cant look up at know what an aircrafts altitude is just be looking, even when I am up in the air flying. so how chemtrailers think they can, i have no idea.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:59 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 



I cant look up at know what an aircrafts altitude is just be looking, even when I am up in the air flying. so how chemtrailers think they can, i have no idea.


No but I'm pretty sure you could pick the difference between 30,000' and 10.000'..
Even the size of the trail would look different at that altitude..

Also sometimes you may see low level clouds above the trail..
There are ways to at least get an idea...



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by firepilot
 



I cant look up at know what an aircrafts altitude is just be looking, even when I am up in the air flying. so how chemtrailers think they can, i have no idea.


No but I'm pretty sure you could pick the difference between 30,000' and 10.000'..
Even the size of the trail would look different at that altitude..

Also sometimes you may see low level clouds above the trail..
There are ways to at least get an idea...


I can honestly say I have never seen a low level contrail or an image with one in. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

I can only assume you have seen images I haven't, such as ones with low level clouds below the trails. I would be really interested to see these photos of low level trails, please link to some.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:10 AM
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reply to post by liejunkie01
 


•2 stands for moderately toxic materials. These materials can cause illness and injuries with long term exposure and can be dangerous if proper medical attention is not given immediately when symptoms appear..

Sounds harmless ?

Moderately toxic ..... equals extremely dangerous to me

4 stands for extremely toxic that isn't what I said. I said it is extremely dangerous 0.01 mg exposure limit is very dangerous. You may have taken an ohs class for 1 hour but that doesn't mean your qualified to say that
a moderately toxic substance is by any means safe , does it ? Or did you get a phd in chemistry during that ohs class ?
edit on 31-5-2011 by DrunkNinja because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by DrunkNinja
 




a moderately toxic substance is by any means safe , does it ? Or did you get a phd in chemistry during that ohs class ?


It is an irritant. It tells you to wash it off if exposed to skin. You know what. Since you spelled it ohs instead of OSHA I am not going to get iinto the details. Something tells me you will not comprehend it anyways.

I do not wish to be rude, but damn man. Was that necessary?

Here is the MSDS sheet again.


Section 3: Hazards Identification
Potential Acute Health Effects: Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.

//www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927257

Notice irritant.

ir·ri·tant   /ˈɪrɪtnt/ Show Spelled
[ir-i-tnt] Show IPA

–adjective
1. tending to cause irritation; irritating.
.
–noun
2. anything that irritates.
3. Physiology, Pathology . a biological, chemical, or physical agent that stimulates a characteristic function or elicits a response, especially an inflammatory response.
.

dictionary.reference.com...

I did not say it was safe.

ETA:



You may have taken an ohs class for 1 hour but that doesn't mean your qualified to say that


By the way it was 40 hours. I have my 30 hour OSHA card. What do you have again?
edit on 31-5-2011 by liejunkie01 because: ETA

edit on 31-5-2011 by liejunkie01 because: more to add



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by firepilot
 


Because there is ZERO evidence of these low level contrails too. If you think they are real, get document and prove them. Perceptions and feelings do not count.


Really? I trust my perception and feelings more than I trust you..
At least my mind isn't closed and already made up..

I honestly don't even know why you people come in these threads..
You have NO intention of debating...

Are you seriously trusting your 'feeling that there may be low level contrails' over the evidence of them?
Wow, I guess you might have seen one if you live in the Arctic, or even less likely, the Antarctic.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by DrunkNinja
Moderately toxic ..... equals extremely dangerous to me


Ethyl Alcohol is, according to the MSDS, "toxic to blood, the reproductive system, liver, upper respiratory tract, skin, central nervous"

Yet Bud Light contains 42,000 ppm. WTF?

Everything is toxic if you consume enough of it. Even water.

www.sciencelab.com...



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 



Forgive me if I misunderstood you, but for the most part the arguments I've seen go like this. "To know Chemtrails are real all you have to do is look up in the sky!...The Chemtrails are EVERYWHERE zig, zagging their poisons all across the sky every day". I did make an assumption, that this is what you were speaking of when you say 'Chemtrails', and that is what I was referring to. Such a radical program would indeed cost, and take the manpower that I suggested. What is it exactly that you mean by 'Chemtrails', and what is your evidence, if not suggesting that 'contrails' are in reality 'Chemtrails'. Without a definitive definition it's hard to discuss these matters, though I do believe the criteria I suggested matches the great majority of people's meanings when they speak of 'Chemtrails'. I'll look forward to hearing your definition of the term, and what you think is going on.


I'm on the fence with chemtrails which seems to still get you attacked by debunkers who in all honesty can not prove a negative anyway..
As I pointed out and it is FACT, Governments have sprayed dangerous chemicals deliberately on unsuspecting citizens in the past so it's not like it's an unproven scenario..
I do not think every trail in the sky is a chemtrail, the vast majority are clearly contrails..
But some pics I've seen are a little odd..
The patterns are huge or they appear too low or their course seems strange..
But then I still don't buy that it was a contrail in California that time..


Fair enough, yet why should a debunker HAVE to prove a negative? All of the claimed evidence of 'chemtrails' can be debunked quite easily. If the 'true believers' have no evidence then they really have nothing but wild speculation. It's one thing to site very real stories about Government Funded Research where some small portion of the population was experimented on, and another to link such stories to Country Wide (or even World Wide according to some 'believers'). The problem is with scale. Do I have trouble imagining that the Government might make test subjects of some small group, and do so illegally, yet again? No, I can see that happening.....What I would have trouble with is something happening indiscriminately across the nation at such a large scale, which is what most 'Chemtrail' believers suggest.

As for some contrails looking odd....I've been a life long sky watcher since I was a child. There was nothing I used to love to do more, than to sit on a particular hill in my backyard and watch the clouds/contrails making shapes in the sky above me. I see no difference whatsoever. This, is of course, hard to prove....I have only my own memory. Fortunately I've since stumbled across sites such as the one I started a thread about www.abovetopsecret.com... ......which proves Contrails from the past look just as they do today.

PS, what are you referring to, as the 'California' contrail? Do you mean the alleged rocket?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by DrunkNinja
reply to post by EyeDontKnow
 


No the debate isn't solely about chemical dispersal over 28 000 ft, its anywhere in the air. That's where this whole thing started very very long ago when the debate was whether or not silver iodide and barium are safe to release into the atmosphere. Its not about who's doing it, It's not about what type of plane is outfitted to do it, Its not about elevation levels. Its about safety.


You are inventing your own subject and storyline here.
You are taking the term "chemtrail" to anywhere it best suits your argument in an attempt to build a new argument outside the already established chemtrail community's meaning of "chemtrailing".
You are lumping the openly admitted use of AgI, with an unproven accused use of Barium.

Releasing Silver Iodine into clouds already has a name - a universally accepted name. It's called "Cloud Seeding".
This a known venture. It's a fact not hidden from anyone. (btw, it is also deployed by ground-based rockets, and ground generators placed on mountaintops.) .
Given these other methods of dispersal, lumping it in with something else called "chemtrails" does not make sense, description-wise.
I think you know very well that when people talk about "Chemtrails", they are referring to the white "trails" in the sky, (usually) over 28k feet.
You posted photos of such high-altitude jets on page 3 of this thread....and mentioned Barium as well.

If you are genuinely concerned about AgI safety, then fine...... I'm willing to discuss that, and see it for what it's worth...as it's own issue. There is a lot of known science on that issue.
However, I won't acknowledge the other "unknown" issue of lingering white trails at 28k feet to be lumped in the same discussion, because they are in fact different issues.




Its not about who's doing it, It's not about what type of plane is outfitted to do it, Its not about elevation levels. Its about safety.

....so...all we need to do is worry about safety ?...and forget the rest ? Isn't that a bit apathetic (or disingenuous) and narrow-minded ?


Originally posted by DrunkNinja
Fact....
Silver Iodide is a dangerous chemical that is released into the atmosphere and the delivery vehicle is an airplane.
Fact.....
Silver Iodide Is a chemical introduced to the atmosphere via an airplane.


Originally posted by DrunkNinja
Are these facts ?,,,,,, YES or NO ????? Answer for once instead of sidestepping the obvious.

Partially correct...not always introduced via airplane.


Originally posted by DrunkNinja
Your about to say it doesn't count because it's weather modification and it isn't being performed over 28 000 ft ....
What does that change ? Nothing its still a chemical being delivered to the atmosphere by an airplane.

...sort of....
But in addition, you have yet to prove "what chemical" and "how", or why.


Originally posted by DrunkNinja
That's what I'm saying but instead of addressing this straight on you would rather post video's of cloud seeding and then say see it's low altitude completely missing or avoiding the point and people are starting to see that despite the obvious you will say anything and do anything to maintain your position, which amount's to nothing more than stupidity on your behalf.

...I didn't post any videos...

Originally posted by DrunkNinja
I have not said anything more than that planes are introducing chemicals to the atmosphere nothing more nothing less and even though your posting pictures of airplanes dumping jet fuel into the skies you still tell me I'm wrong....... you can't see the idiocy in that ?

...I didn't post ant photos either.
edit on 31-5-2011 by EyeDontKnow because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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I'm making my post in response to a comment i made about chemtrails..and the next time i saw them spraying. Well, it's 12:58 PST..and i just notiiced the 1st streak. Let's see if there's more throughout the day..and let's see what happens to the weather, in a few days. Keep note of any tornadoes, or whacky weather in the mid-west. If i'm wrong....no biggie, we can scratch that idea. Let's see how many times they spray!



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by nuttin4U
 


That's odd.....


Well, it's 12:58 PST.


I'm in Southern California, so on Pacific Time. Last I checked, we are on Daylight Savings. Now, if you are in Arizona, then (since AZ doesn't observe DST) you could be on PST...more correctly, it's Mountain Standard, though....PDT and MST are the 'same', whenever the USA is on Daylight Savings.


(My time, PDT, is 1305 right now)

I presume, you are on he West Coast?? How about a general location....county, or just the state, and a quadrant....can find out what's happening, in your area, RIGHT NOW!



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 



Are you seriously trusting your 'feeling that there may be low level contrails' over the evidence of them? Wow, I guess you might have seen one if you live in the Arctic, or even less likely, the Antarctic.


What frikkin evidence do you have that a particular trail that I may have seen is at a certain altitude??

Mate, you are nothing but rude and ignorant..
Do try to grow up and act like a mature adult even if you're not..

BTW, I live a damn site closer to Antartic so you can't even get that right..



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 



As for some contrails looking odd....I've been a life long sky watcher since I was a child. There was nothing I used to love to do more, than to sit on a particular hill in my backyard and watch the clouds/contrails making shapes in the sky above me. I see no difference whatsoever. This, is of course, hard to prove....I have only my own memory. Fortunately I've since stumbled across sites such as the one I started a thread about www.abovetopsecret.com... ......which proves Contrails from the past look just as they do today.

PS, what are you referring to, as the 'California' contrail? Do you mean the alleged rocket?


I've said before, I see very few contrails where I live and even less persistent contrails..
I can really only go on pics I have seen which is not as good obviously..
I have seen some odd ones though..
One for example had multiple, perfect contrails and two of these did perfect 180 degree turns..
Some say these were planes in a holding pattern but they were quite tight turns and from what I know most planes do not hold at high altitude...
Yeah, the rocket one..Still doesn't sit with me....



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by firepilot
 


Actually firepilot..........Black has stated hes on the fence about chemtrails.


He has - but he never questions chemtrail evidence - only debunking evidence, so IMO he's jsut using the words to try to avoid people knowing that he's a chemmie.


I respect that stance,.


I would too if it was real, but it's a smokescreen - IMO he's just a chemmie who doesn't want to admit it.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by nuttin4U
 


There's another plane flying by now....1:43 PST. The day is starting to get cloudy again. It started off with BLUE skies, until the 1st plane sprayed. I'm SURE they'll be spraying more. Funny thing is...before they started, a plane flew by, leaving contrails. But these trails are MILES long and THICK! I can see the clouds feathering out. I cant wait to read all the 'theories' as to what is causing this effect. Please do, tickle my ears with non-sense!



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



I would too if it was real, but it's a smokescreen - IMO he's just a chemmie who doesn't want to admit it.


And IMO you're just plain ignorant..
You just wish to attack anyone that doesn't agree with your stance that there is no such thing as a chemtrail..

I can clearly state I don't believe for a second that there are thousands of chemtrails every day as some believe..



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by nuttin4U
reply to post by nuttin4U
 


There's another plane flying by now....1:43 PST. The day is starting to get cloudy again. It started off with BLUE skies, until the 1st plane sprayed. I'm SURE they'll be spraying more. Funny thing is...before they started, a plane flew by, leaving contrails. But these trails are MILES long and THICK! I can see the clouds feathering out. I cant wait to read all the 'theories' as to what is causing this effect. Please do, tickle my ears with non-sense!


Clouds forming from contrails?

Like these?

www.nature.com...

or these?

science-edu.larc.nasa.gov...

Or this -



The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.


Written by Antoine Saint-Exupery in "Flight to Arras" in 1943, and quoted in Wakes of War, about his recce flights over German lines in 1940. He was killed in 1944. "Flight to Arras" is still available eg from Amazon




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