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Ashes to ashes, spacemen to cavemen

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posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by babybunnies
All you have to look at is the massive cover up going on in the archaeological community to realize that the timeline of Earth's history that we're being told simply doesn't make sense.

The history of Earth is far more complex than we're being led to believe, and there is a massive conspiracy going on to cover up the truth.

I would introduce you to www.hallofmaat.com... for answers to some of your questions and concerns. Your 'massive coverup' is a tool to sell books.




posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:52 AM
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Due to the Sun's variable output, radio carbon dating is useless.


This may be one of your finer points OP. We truly don't know how much the decay rate has changed throughout history. If there's any truth at all to the stories of people living exponentially longer lives at one time, this may suggest a rather slow decay rate worldwide at some point in history. It could also suggest that it has fluctuated throughout time. Maybe to extremes. This throws a lot of doubt on current C-14 dating methods.

Having said that, the sciences do try to verify their dates from more than one field of expertise. Though there is admittedly still a lot of guesswork involved.

I'm not so sure yet about the alien part, but I can see definite possibilities in the rest of what you say, as there are similarities between your own theory and mine.

S&F from me.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by Klassified
 


Also, Carbon dating becomes unreliable past 48,000 BC or so. If modern man has been around [As has been suggested] for roughly 200,000 years then that means he had pretty good cognitive ability and possible monument building skills which we are presently hard pressed to find evidence of. That alone opens up quite interesting conjecture, discussions and debate.

They cannot date Stones



Once a stone is cut and put into place of an ancient monument there is no way to date when that occurred so in order to find out the date of such locations they search for other clues mainly carbon from village camp fires, grave sites etc. Who’s to say that those datable C-14 locations are not from village campsites or evidence of migration through that area which may have occurred thousands of years after the stone structures were built and erected?

Radiocarbon Dating Limitations

Because the decay rate is logarithmic, radiocarbon dating has significant upper and lower limits. It is not very accurate for fairly recent deposits. In recent deposits so little decay has occurred that the error factor (the standard deviation) may be larger than the date obtained. The practical upper limit is about 50,000 years, because so little C-14 remains after almost 9 half-lives that it may be hard to detect and obtain an accurate reading, regardless of the size of the sample.

edit on 28-5-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Dating

Dendrochronology, tree rings which allows C-14 dating to be calibrated and at this time it goes back to around 9,000 BC

Potassium–argon dating can be applied to certain types of rocks; clay minerals, evaporites, tephra, and micas. It is good for dating lava flows associated with remains, its range is 100,000 to 2 billion years

Obsidian Hydration, can date obsidian tools

Thermoluminescence dating allows accurate dating of pottery found in association with sites

In all there are 21 different methods of dating

Edited to note that with AMS the upper limit of RC dating is now ten half lifes or 60,000 years

The secret is to use multiple methods and compare the results
edit on 28/5/11 by Hanslune because: Added note



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Yikes double post


edit on 28/5/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Klassified
 


Also, Carbon dating becomes unreliable past 48,000 BC or so.


Which is why it's not used beyond about 45k BC



If modern man has been around [As has been suggested] for roughly 200,000 years then that means he had pretty good cognitive ability and possible monument building skills which we are presently hard pressed to find evidence of. That alone opens up quite interesting conjecture, discussions and debate.


I agree. However, there's a big stretch from that to an industrial civilisation - evidence for which we'd have in, for example, ice cores (we can date the start of the Industria revolution, for example, very well by studying gases trapped in the ice)


They cannot date Stones


Not entirely true. There's stuff like thermoluminescence dating which can be used in some cases


Of course, as you rightly say, anything in regions scoured by glaciers during the last glacial maximum would have been destroyed. As would anywhere on coastal plain around the same time which are now under water. However, we ought reasonably to expect that there'd be some signs from inland in regions not glaciated.

Must admit I used to think an Ice Age 'proto-civilisation' was quite possible, I'm growing more sceptical, though I'd still not dismiss the idea. And certainly a 'stonehenge' level cuture seem quite feasible. But no one capable of building aircraft.
edit on 28-5-2011 by Essan because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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I don't know about all that, but i know I'm heading back to my cave, you just cant do better than a deep mountain cave of pure granite to protect you from everything



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Howdy Essan

Looks like we posted at the same time, on note on AMS RC dating has pushed the limit to 60,000 years so about 58,000 BCE

Oh other comments above

The ice cores hold the gas and particles from the atmosphere; from those we can look back 5-800,000 years not to mention pollen in sediments which gives us an excellent view even father back

Evidence of our presence here will be detectable for millions of years and in fossil form for billions
edit on 28/5/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Essan
I agree. However, there's a big stretch from that to an industrial civilisation - evidence for which we'd have in, for example, ice cores (we can date the start of the Industria revolution, for example, very well by studying gases trapped in the ice)


I agree.

I honestly don't believe mankind ever reached the level of our present technology in the past. Well, at least not the types of technology we use today such as "Explosive" energy anyway...

I do feel that there were isolated pockets of cultures and proto-civilizations scattered about the planet which had reached varying levels of development. Again, I still believe we need to do more research along those now sunken ice age coastlines.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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But, but, but...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

www.s8int.com...

www.hallofthegods.org...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

wiki.answers.com...
edit on 28-5-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by downtown436
 


Honestly we can't really even guess the age of the Earth. Due to the Sun's variable output, radio carbon dating is useless. Maybe the Earth is 4,000,000 years old, maybe it is 125,000,000,000 years old. In all reality we just have no idea. It could be super young in comparison to the numbers I haphazardly threw out there.

No offense, but I usually stop reading after I hit factual inaccuracies like this. We don't determine the Earth's date using radicarbon methods, we do it by utilizing other radioisotopes. If you actually read the research regarding solar effects on radioisotope decay rates, the maximum variation in decay rate is fractions of a percent. It's also cyclical on a timescale that is much much shorter than those being measured, meaning those miniscule variations average out over a long enough time frame. Further, based on gamma emissions from supernovae, we know that decay rates haven't changed significantly in the last 2B years or so. We might be a few percent off in either direction from the current estimated age of the Earth, but not much more than that.

Apologies if this it considered nitpicky, but I think there's enough misinformation making the rounds about dating methods that it was warranted.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Slayer, Hanslune, Essan, iterationzero

All great points gentleman. And they all lead in part to some of my own dilemma about history. I have this "belief" that our history is not quite as cut and dried as our sciences make it out to be. And all can't be explained away with the wave of the scientific wand, and "reason".

(A) says: We evolved in a straight line from point a to point b. And that societal and civilizational evolution is just as much a flat line on an incline as much as biological evolution is.

(B) says: Wait a minute. What about these out of place factors that don't always fit theory A? These people shouldn't have known about this. These people shouldn't have been able to dream about this, let alone do it.

Then (C) comes along and says, It was all aliens, and their technology. That's why we only find traces of it, and weird writings about it. (Not a theory I subscribe to. But I won't rule it out either)

Somehow, I believe the truth about history is somewhere in the middle ground of all these theories. Or at the extreme of one or the other ends. I just know something about the mainstream explanation doesn't quite ring true.

It just isn't as warm and fuzzy as it should be.

edit on 5/28/2011 by Klassified because: Added iterationzero



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Klassified

(A) says: We evolved in a straight line from point a to point b. And that societal and civilizational evolution is just as much a flat line on an incline as much as biological evolution is.

I'm confused to who you think says this? Historians do not think technological development is linear and biologists certainly don't think evolution is linear. I fact evolution is non-teleological, ie without any direction.

The main problem with your hypothesis of previous "advanced" civilisations (is post-industrial revolution technologies) is that there isn't a shred of evidence for them. Yet there is tons of evidence for the current models.

We have found wooden spears from 400,000 years ago, and stone tools from millions of years ago, at times when human populations were tiny compared to now - yet these apparently advanced cultures you hypothesise left nothing at all? How do you account for this?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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I do feel that there were isolated pockets of cultures and proto-civilizations scattered about the planet which had reached varying levels of development. Again, I still believe we need to do more research along those now sunken ice age coastlines.


Exactly and that view is reflected in the archaeology community - that numbers of small neolithic 'civilizations' haven't been detected yet, especially ones who used wood for building.

Howdy Klassified




(B) says: Wait a minute. What about these out of place factors that don't always fit theory A? These people shouldn't have known about this. These people shouldn't have been able to dream about this, let alone do it.


Much is known but much still isn't nor has our advance been straight forward, some cultures have devolved (Tasmanians) while other stagnate or reach an equilibrium and don't change for thousands of years, (various tribes) while other shoot up rapidly then decline even faster (Sumerian)
edit on 28/5/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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So how exactly do you propose we always happen to go from where we are now, back to cavemen?

Would you say our detailed history in books and movies and other literature is our way of letting it not happen again? Or to try to prepare and educate the cavemen of future?

Was that what the Egyptians tried to do? The Mayans?



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by FatherLukeDuke
 

This comes from some report that I read along time ago. Wish I still had it. I don't really have what I would call a hypothesis at this point. I've thrown too many of my own theories out in the recent, in favor of more modern scientific ideas. So now I'm just kind of hanging with some curiosities, ideas, and a few theories I play around with. Something similar to the OP's being one of those.

Applying the "Cartesian Doubt" hammer to your own theories sucks sometimes.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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After studing some flood myths it would seem that the epicenter was nearer to south America due to th more decriptive stories concerning some great event that was also recorded all over the world. It would be ignorant to deny such a event took place. The stories describe the fountains of the deep opening up shooting water to the clouds flooding the earth and mentions of a dark age with much clouds, thunder, no sun for some time before the flooding. In these myths when they mention that their creator created the sun and the moon it seems that this was the first time the skies cleared.

READ THEM ALL HERE www.talkorigins.org...

Eastern Brazil (Rio de Janiero region):
Two twin sons of a great wizard, one good and the other evil, were always arguing. One day the angered good brother stamped so hard that the earth opened and water gushed out, shooting as high as the clouds. The water covered the whole world. The good brother and his wife climbed a pindona tree, and the evil brother and his wife climbed a geniper tree until the waters receded. (In another account, they survived in canoes.) From these couples descended the Tupinambas and Tominus, two tribes which don't get along well. [Vitaliano, p. 175; Gaster, pp. 124-125]


Arekuna (Guyana):
Shortly after people arrived on earth, all crops grew on a single tree. The culture hero Makunaima and his four brothers cut down the tree, and water immediately poured from the stump, and with it came fish. One of the brothers made a basket to stop the water, but Makunaima wanted a few more fish for the rivers. When he lifted the basket just a little, water came out full force, flooding the earth.

Inca (Peru):
Pictorial records of ancient Incan rulers show that a flood rose above the highest mountains. All created things perished, except for a man and woman who floated in a box. When the flood subsided, the floating box was driven by the wind to Tiahuanacu, about 200 miles from Cuzco, where the Creator told them to dwell. The Creator molded new people from clay at Tiahuanacu. On each figure, the Creator painted dress and hair style, and he gave each nation distinctive language, songs, and seeds to plant. When he had brought them to life, he ordered them into the earth to travel underground and emerge from caves, springs, tree trunks, etc. in their various homes. He then created the sun, moon, and stars. [Bierhorst, 1988, pp. 200,202; Gaster, p. 127; Frazer, p. 271]

The creator god Viracocha made the earth and sky, and he created stone giants to live in it. After a while the giants became lazy and quarrelsome, and Viracocha decided to destroy them. Some he turned back to stone, and these stone statues still exist at Tiahuanaco and Pucara. He destroyed the rest with a great flood. When the flood subsided, it left the lakes Titicaca and Poopo, and it left seashells on the Altiplano at elevations of 3660 m. Viracocha saved two stone giants from the flood and with their help created people his own size. He reached down into Lake Titicaca and drew out the Sun and Moon to provide light so he could admire his new creation. In those days, the Moon was even brighter than the Sun, but the Sun grew jealous and threw ashes onto the Moon's face. [Gifford, p. 54]

A large, rich city once existed on the Altiplano. One day, a group of ragged Indians came and warned the proud inhabitants that the city would be destroyed by earthquake, flood, and fire. Most inhabitants just scoffed and eventually had the ragged people flogged and thrown out. Some of the city's priests, though, heeded the warning and went to live as hermits in a temple on a hill. Some time later, a red cloud appeared on the horizon. Soon it had grown and covered the area, and its red glow eerily lit the night. Suddenly, with a flash and a rumble, an earthquake destroyed many of the city's buildings, and a red rain poured down. Other earthquakes and more rain followed, and a flood soon covered the ruined city; this water is Lake Titicaca today. None of the city's inhabitants survived save the priests. The descendants of the prophets became the Callawayas, wise men of the valleys. [Gifford, pp. 55-56]

Canelos Quechua:
Quilla, the moon, had sex with his bird sister, Jilucu. From this union came the stars, as people. Quilla always came unseen at night. One night Jilucu smeared genipa juice on his face, telling him it would make him feel fresh. By morning the juice turned dark, and Jilucu saw that her lover was the moon. The stars also knew from the moon's spotted face that they were descended from an incestuous relationship. They all cried, and their crying produced rain, earthquake, and flood. Volcanoes erupted, new hills formed, rivers swelled; the earth people were swept eastward by a great river into the sea. From this river came the sun, who began his regular course and brought an orderly axis to the world. The moon and stars lost much of their power because of the incestuous relationship, making night lose most of its light. The people were separated from one another and had to work their way westward, having many adventures along the way. [Whitten, pp. 51-52]



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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I too have thought of the possibility of a continuously reoccuring human society. I dont really believe in evoulution just a loss of the true knowledge that we as people sometimes posess. Everyone has heard of the ancient astronaut theory it can make a lot of sense saying that people of our past posessed some great knowledge before our time as it would seem. Our ancetors did do some very amazing things like the pyramids. But if something spectacular happened it would be covered upo by majic and religeon who are we to judge whether all the ancient texts and manuscripts are actually accurate or just misunderstood myths from our ancient ancestors none of us have the true intelligence to decipher fact from fiction leaving us only with guesses and conjecture. The most possible answer to me is that we have been helped by a supernatural power every civilization from our time has reached outside their train of thought to a higher power the true answer to our past lies in a gray area of theories created by man. history was written by the victors of the time and every shred of evidence has been destroyed in reality we do not know what day it is what month or even what year it is only right to questin everything we have been told I mean honestly just because a professor or scientist tells you something is tru makes something a fact I think not these people are proven wrong daily best bet is a good guess I encourage everyone to give it a shot.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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Very good, very close to my own beliefs. Excpet a couple things don't mesh. For one, the Sumerian epic of the flood: The "ark" didn't have animals on it, the Sumerians describe a crystal box containing the "life essense" of every animal, not the physical animals themselves. This is a clear refference to DNA from the ancient world. Secondly, you hypothosize that differant races are from differant planets. This is also untrue. The ancient Sumerians clearly state that each race of humans was governed over by a differant Anunnaki, who bestowed seperate features and languages upon their respective subjects, therefore we are all the same species and from the same place, we were just tampered with in different ways by the various Anunnaki that ruled over us. I use the Sumerian texts as a guidline, because they had the first civilization, and should be taken as the foundation of everything that came after.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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However if one brings in supernatural beings one has to ask why are those that believed in them destroyed on a rather regular basis? Empires, nations, cities, tribes and people have been destroyed while beliving in one religion by yet another group believing in a completely different one.

It would seem these Gods are a bit nutty, or as many peoples saw them, super being with morals and desires of men themselves.



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