Originally posted by donguillermo
Obviously, you doubt that I served in the Marine Corps, since you are providing so much detail and challenging me to do the same. It has been 35 years since I served and I do not remember the details such as my unit designations.

Don,

Your story sounds plausible, in so far as the timelines and the events match up pretty well. It is, however, difficult for me to understand that you would be so vague about things like unit designations and MOS. Also, your referral to Recruit Training (or more, commonly, Boot Camp) as basic training, infantry training, rather than ITR, guerilla warfare training at Camp Pendleton, rather than Staging Bn. It is true that 35 years is a long time. But, there are things that stay with Marines, not the least of which is the language. This is especially true when speaking to another Marine.

I am a member of a Marine board on WebTV. Our members range from WWII to Korea to Vietnam to the Persian Gulf war and Somalia. It gives me a great sense of pride that all these Marines from different eras and different experiences can come together and speak the same language.

Oh, sure, sometimes a Marine will spit out an acronym that is foreign to the rest because a given thing will have been renamed or the vernacular has change over time, e.g., EGA for Eagle, Globe and Anchor or OOHRAH as a multi-utility word.

One thing that I wonder about is your schooling. You said you completed RTR and ITR and then awaited OCS, opting out finally to serve out your enlistment. Were you trained as a data processor?

If you served, I am grateful for that, but I have to wonder how you can reconcile Kerry's behavior upon returning to the US. John Kerry turned coat and sided with the communists. He lied about the actions of the military in Vietnam. I really don't care what Kerry did in Vietnam. I know that, while he was awarded three Purple Heart Awards, there is no way anyone else in country at the time could have been awarded even one Purple Heart for any of the "wounds" he received, given the criteria which I posted earlier.

But, that is not what counts. Kerry betrayed his country and took sides with the enemy. That's all any loyal American needs to know. Anyone who supports him is siding with the enemy, because John Kerry is the enemy.


[edit on 04/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
But, that is not what counts. Kerry betrayed his country and took sides with the enemy. That's all any loyal American needs to know. Anyone who supports him is siding with the enemy, because John Kerry is the enemy.
[edit on 04/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]

I was in Iraq, with the Army, during the initial invasion of Iraq (G.W., not his Dad). I speak out against the occupation every chance I get. Am I betraying my country? I'm I not a loyal American? I think people like Kerry, or myself, have a unique perspective about the conflicts we were in, and have an obligation, as loyal Americans, to tell fellow Americans, what an atrocity we were in involved in.

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
But, that is not what counts. Kerry betrayed his country and took sides with the enemy. That's all any loyal American needs to know. Anyone who supports him is siding with the enemy, because John Kerry is the enemy.
[edit on 04/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]

I was in Iraq, with the Army, during the initial invasion of Iraq (G.W., not his Dad). I speak out against the occupation every chance I get. Am I betraying my country? I'm I not a loyal American? I think people like Kerry, or myself, have a unique perspective about the conflicts we were in, and have an obligation, as loyal Americans, to tell fellow Americans, what an atrocity we were in involved in.

I stand by my statement. The tide has turned. America's enemies are in our midst and they are hell-bent-for-leather to destroy us and our way of life. If these conditions are not enough to cause you to put aside your petty wrangling and stand up proudly as a loyal American, willing to risk all for our preservation, then you are the enemy.

To paraphrase GW Bush, you are either with us or you are against us.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Can you please...shut-up? Idiot....

FreeMason, why do you keep violating ATS rules against insulting other posters? I predict you will soon have a little red rectangle in your profile for calling me an idiot.

*sighs*

Remain on-topic and stop with the sniping & name calling, people.
Let's act like adults here.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I stand by my statement. The tide has turned. America's enemies are in our midst and they are hell-bent-for-leather to destroy us and our way of life. If these conditions are not enough to cause you to put aside your petty wrangling and stand up proudly as a loyal American, willing to risk all for our preservation, then you are the enemy.

To paraphrase GW Bush, you are either with us or you are against us.

Petty wrangling? Americans are dying because of a lie! Some have that "I don't care if America is wrong, it's un-American to say so!" mentality. I'm not one of them. If our government is doing wrong, we, as American citizens, have the obligation to let them know.

GradyPhilpott, just for you, I went and dug out my DD-214. This is the short form, report of transfer or discharge. It doesn't list all my duty stations, but perhaps the following military abbreviations and codes will satisfy you.

My MOS was 4011, DataProcEquipOper. As I explained, I actually held the job title of computer programmer.

The reason and authority for my transfer or discharge was 411-CofG. Auth Para 6012.1a MARCORSEPMAN MCOs 1910.23 & 1900.2E.

My last duty assignment and major command was H&HSCo, SupBn, 1st FSR//FLC.

My decorations, medals, and badges included Rifle Expert Badge, National Defense Medal, and Vietnam Service Medal. The Navy Achievement Medal with Combat "V", which I previously mentioned, was awarded after my release from active duty. The Marine Corps invited me to attend an awards ceremony at MCAS, Yuma, Arizona, but I declined.

Is that good enough?

Originally posted by donguillermo

My MOS was 4011, DataProcEquipOper. As I explained, I actually held the job title of computer programmer. My last duty assignment and major command was H&HSCo, SupBn, 1st FSR//FLC.

My decorations, medals, and badges included Rifle Expert Badge, National Defense Medal, and Vietnam Service Medal. The Navy Achievement Medal with Combat "V", which I previously mentioned, was awarded after my release from active duty. The Marine Corps invited me to attend an awards ceremony at MCAS, Yuma, Arizona, but I declined.

Is that good enough?

I'm not reliving my Marine years, Don, but those years a part of who I am. The experiences of those years are wired permanently into my brain. I don't remember everything with perfect accuracy about my enlistment, either and I was never happier than on the day I was released, but no Marine ever doubts that I am a Marine, because that is who I am. It's indelible; it's unmistakable; it's beyond my control. I might has well try to be a frog.

In fact, the only people I have ever had to convince with solid evidence of my service are those who have never served and who woudn't know a Marine if one walked up and bit him on the buttocks. I've never met a Marine yet who had to look at his DD-214 to know his MOS, but I guess anything is possible. I guess it is true that there are those who were in the Marine Corps, but never became Marines.

GradyPhilpott says,

I guess it is true that there are those who were in the Marine Corps, but never became Marines.

Oh, so now you are a real Marine, but I am not? I went through boot camp and infantry training, same as you. I qualified with the M-14, same as you. I wore the same uniform you did. I served in Viet Nam, same as you. I received an honorable discharge, same as you.

But because I can't remember enough details and use enough military abbreviations to satisfy you, I am not a real Marine???

I have really had enough of your chest-thumping, flag-waving, patriotic pride in having been one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. You are really dishonoring yourself by refusing to honor my service to my country and John Kerry's service to his country. You should really be ashamed of yourself for sliming and lying about John Kerry, and for claiming that I am not a real Marine.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by RANT
Wow. You missed alot over there. Let me catch you up as to what really happened to your country while you were away, and submit it wasn't all John Kerry.

Rant

I'm fully aware of the events you mention. Your language tells me that you are a marxist who despises the principles this nation was founded on. You are the enemy. You are what is wrong with America, if in fact, you actually reside here. If you do live here, you might actually feel more comfortable in Canada or France.

Gee, I normally have to log into kiddie political chat on AOL to be called a marxist, an enemy of the state, accused of being one of those America hating "foreigners" and invited to leave followed by a string of laughing lol's.

It's ironic considering you're the one complaining how awful this country has been the last 35 years, that you're inviting ME to leave. I'm perfectly happy here, think this is the greatest country in the world, and vastly superior now to much of it's past. Maybe you should leave. Or better yet, build a time machine.

On topic, if anyone hasn't mentioned it, today's response to McCain's plea that Bush denounce the SwiftVet's message (and their opportunistic media whore leader - my words) came from the Bush camp on CNN as "We have never nor will we ever question Kerry's service in Vietnam."

Case closed.

Originally posted by donguillermo
GradyPhilpott says,

I guess it is true that there are those who were in the Marine Corps, but never became Marines.

I have really had enough of your chest-thumping, flag-waving, patriotic pride in having been one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.

What do you take pride in, Don?

"Once a Marine, always a Marine."

[edit on 04/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

What do you take pride in, Don?

"Once a Marine, always a Marine."

Well, then, I guess I am stil a Marine, because I was once a Marine.

In 1967, I was working for Honeywell in Boston as a systems analyst. I had a critical skills deferment, and could have easily avoided military service by continuing my occupation. At the time, I didn't know much about anything except computers, but I knew my country was at war.

I take pride in the fact that I felt it was my patriotic duty to help defend my country and enlisted in the USMC. I take pride in the fact that, in boot camp, I shot the highest qualifying score on the rifle range in my platoon, and made PFC out of boot camp. I did not have a college degree. I take pride in the fact that I scored the highest score ever on the OCS qualifying examination, which I took during boot camp. I take pride in the fact that, at Camp LeJeune, the Colonel's Board evaluating me for OCS recommended me with "highest enthusiasm." I take pride in the fact that, when I received a Data Processing MOS, I requested an infantry MOS (0311, was it?). But I was turned down, and was told I was too valuable as a computer programmer.

As I told you, after I decided not to attend OCS, I was stationed at MCRD Parris Island as a computer programmer. Like that Grady? MCRD = Marine Corps Recruit Depot? By that time, I only had about a year left on my enlistment, and I could have easily ridden out the rest of my service stateside. I take pride in the fact that I volunteered to go to Viet Nam. I take pride in the fact that I was awarded the Navy Achievement Medal with Combat "V" for my service. I take pride in the fact that I received an honorable discharge.

After returning to the world (like that, Grady? more USMC slang), like John Kerry, I became extremely critical of the war and engaged in anti-war protests. I have also been opposed to the Iraq War. I take pride in the fact that, despite my anti-war positions, I have never criticized the U.S. military, or any marine, soldier, sailor, or airman who wore the uniform of the USA. I take pride in the fact I have also tried not to be critical of any military veterans. But when you tell me I am not a real Marine, you have gone too far, and you deserve the criticisms I have directed at you.

Whatever happened to the idea of Viet Nam veterans hanging together and supporting each other? Kerry, you, and I are all veterans of that war. Even when we disagree politically, I really think it is unseemly to start questioning each other's patriotism and loyalty to the country we all love.

Rant:

You really won't hear me questioning Kerry's service in Vietnam, either. I do question the awarding of three Purple Hearts for three scratches, but that is not questioning his service. As far as I'm concerned, he conducted himself honorably in Vietnam, even though he has admitted to commiting war crimes while there.

My complaint about Kerry stems entirely from his smear campaign against all those who served and his taking up the cause of the communists. In one of my posts, you will find a link to an interview with a former NVA officer who explains the valuable assistance the anti-war movement gave the communsts during the war. The NVA was literally on their backs when the US withdrew in 1973 and Saigon did not fall until 1975, two years after the last US combat troops left.

There is probably at least one Vietnamese operated Chinese Restaurant wherever you live. You should talk to those who lived under the communst regime about what the fall of Saigon meant to them.

As for leaving this country, I'll leave when I draw my last breath. I fought a war to save this country from a communist takeover. I continue to fight for the preservation of the constitution and I do my best to pass my values on to a younger generation.

My only problem is with an ever growing population of arrogant, sniveling, pampered, nincompoops who have never sacrificed anything for the blessings you enjoy and who respect nothing except your own self-gratification. When I'm gone, you can fend for yourselves.










[edit on 04/8/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Don writes:

Whatever happened to the idea of Viet Nam veterans hanging together and supporting each other?

That's a real good question, Don. When you and John Kerry come up with a good answer, why don't you post it here.

I really don't have a problem with veterans who came home and joined the political debate after serving in Vietnam. I voted for George McGovern and believe to this day that he could not have messed things up more than Nixon did.

But this is a far cry from what John Kerry did upon his return. Read my links, Don. Everything Kerry did is a matter of record. If you can condone these activities or if you engaged in these activities, then I think it is you who owes an explanation to the rest of us.