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Lost Civilizations? Why isn't there bigger ruins and structures in north America?

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posted on May, 28 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by hbarker
Think there are May have been buried and many still not found?

,, what about the Rockwall of Rockwall,TX >

www.rockwallcountyhistoricalfoundation.com...

The rock wall is a rectangular structure approximately 3.5 miles wide by 5.6 miles long encompassing almost 20 square miles.


I live near there. I've seen it. It's geology... not human made. It only looks "human made" in certain areas, so if they show you just a few bits (including the eroded bolide) you will swear humans did it. If you saw the other areas, you'd know it was natural.




posted on May, 28 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Dear Slayer69,

Wow, I loved those links. Very good work on your part, their art is so lovely even today, so human, so natural. I do have a question and would like to hear your opinion, if it is too of topic, please u2u message me your thoughts. The Polynesians traveled 1/3rd of the world in boats, they could have easily gotten to the Americas


...they didn't have that technology until around 500 AD. The Americas were settled long before that.

One of the problems that exists is that people look at the "ancient ruins" and kind of think they all happened at the same time, thousands and thousands of years ago. But what you're being shown was built at very different times.


I believe, they would have at least come to south America. In south America there were drawings of elephants found and they never had any.

They didn't find elephant drawings. Velikovsky showed drawings of macaws and didn't show the picture of the whole artifact (he was very fond of doing this) which includes writing and other details. If you saw the whole thing with other depictions of macaws, you'd see they weren't elephants.

Plus... there aren't any elephant bones. They're hard to miss.


Their guardians that they made on Easter Island show they knew how to work large stone figures and there weren't that many people living on the island.


Small island, settled by humans around a thousand years ago. It's not 4,000 years old.

Technology and climate in the Americas made the difference. In Egypt and Europe, the end of the Ice Age brought drought and forced people together in river valleys... where they had to learn to cultivate food and live in large groups. In the Americas the climate did change but the population was smaller and it was easier to simply move and follow the animals.

Settled villages and towns with a system of trade are the reason technology develops. You can't really develop good forges and good ironwork if you move every two months. It's hard to move a forge and keep it near ore and coal and other resources you need to work metal.



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Dear Byrd,

I didn't think they all happened at the same time. I was only asking if he thought the Polynesians had ever arrived in the United States. As for Easter Island, merely another example of stone carvings of megalyths, I don't connect them to anywhere else.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Byrd
 


Dear Byrd,

I didn't think they all happened at the same time. I was only asking if he thought the Polynesians had ever arrived in the United States. As for Easter Island, merely another example of stone carvings of megalyths, I don't connect them to anywhere else.

(nod)

There isn't really any evidence that they were here. While it's possible that some could have wandered ashore, they'd be smack-dab in the middle of the Inca empire (or its predecessor), which was not particularly welcoming to strangers. Most of the coastline had been settled for thousands of years. Unless they brought interesting new trade goods (no sign of trade between the Polynesians and South America), they would have been seen as threats and intruders and wouldn't have made any impact on the local culture.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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America is a lost civilisation, disapearing every day.

For good.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by zookey


America is a lost civilisation, disapearing every day.

For good.


Can't even read the casual sections of this forum without anti-american hatred rearing it's ugly head.

edit on 29-5-2011 by TinfoilTP because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Dear Byrd,

I know you are a super moderator, so I recognize that arguing with you is futile. I can only get thrown off the site. Having said that, I believe you are talking to me as another poster and not as a moderator. I will give my answer. I know what you have said, and know it is what is believed. I just don't understand how the polynesians never came here. I think you may be right, if they came here the ancient Americans would have killed them. It is about my fascination with the people, they must have come here at least once. It is much less distance between Easter Island and South America than it is to reach Hawaii. I do hope you understand why my mind cannot grasp that they never came to the Americas.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Byrd
 


Dear Byrd,

I didn't think they all happened at the same time. I was only asking if he thought the Polynesians had ever arrived in the United States. As for Easter Island, merely another example of stone carvings of megalyths, I don't connect them to anywhere else.

(nod)

There isn't really any evidence that they were here. While it's possible that some could have wandered ashore, they'd be smack-dab in the middle of the Inca empire (or its predecessor), which was not particularly welcoming to strangers. Most of the coastline had been settled for thousands of years. Unless they brought interesting new trade goods (no sign of trade between the Polynesians and South America), they would have been seen as threats and intruders and wouldn't have made any impact on the local culture.


More importantly there is no sign of Polynesian occupation of the islands off the western shore of South America. However the archaeological work in that area is less than exhaustive but at this time, nada has shown up.

As you said the Inca were not particularly friendly and Polynesian military technology was primitive compare to theirs - not to mention the difference in numbers!



It is much less distance between Easter Island and South America than it is to reach Hawaii. I do hope you understand why my mind cannot grasp that they never came to the Americas.


They may have and they may not have, but at the moment there is no evidence that they did or didn't. Its one of the mysteries like why cats hate water but love fish
edit on 29/5/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by superjesse13132000
I was just sitting here wondering, "why isn't there huge megaliths in north America, Canada, and such?".

I was thinking about the ones in south america and places like that, but I was thinking to myslef, What kept them from coming north, why stop just below what we now have as our border, but why not north more?
It seemed to be very furtile and full of game. So where are Americas pyramids, monuments, and stone structures. I cant believe that all that was going on up here was some cliff dwellings, while advanced and all, but not like just a few hundred miles south, pyramids, and monuments.


For the most part, our cities in America are built on top of Native American cities. For example, the Hohokam of Phoenix Arizona. They had huge canal systems and I actually think that they were far more advanced then the modern canals. Most canal maps (or their 1929 surveillance of them) stopped at the borders of the 1929 Reservations. But on satellite image, each canal system would extend from Salt River to Gila River, Salt River to Agua Fria River. Far more extensive then the canal systems now. And they had canal water-cycling centers to keep the water moving in the canals so that the water wouldn't become stagnet.

They had large buildings, but since the city of Phoenix was built on top of it, the old buildings were destroyed. All that's left is a section of "Pueblo Grande" which was an entire city and a section of "Casa Grande". Each large building had other buildings around it.

Same occurred with other American cities and the Native American structures. They were built over the top of them. And still the possibility exists that past Native American cities along the coastline went underwater as sea levels rose. So there could be underwater structures all along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and the eastern sea board--Atlantic.



posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Byrd
 

Dear Byrd,

I know you are a super moderator, so I recognize that arguing with you is futile. I can only get thrown off the site. Having said that, I believe you are talking to me as another poster and not as a moderator. I will give my answer. I know what you have said, and know it is what is believed. I just don't understand how the polynesians never came here. I think you may be right, if they came here the ancient Americans would have killed them. It is about my fascination with the people, they must have come here at least once. It is much less distance between Easter Island and South America than it is to reach Hawaii. I do hope you understand why my mind cannot grasp that they never came to the Americas.


Nobody actually ever got thrown off the forum for disagreeing with a moderator. For being disagreeable, yes, but as others will tell you, I don't mind folks arguing with me. Just ask Scott Creighton.

One of the evidences that the Polynesians did NOT contribute to the peopling of North America is that Polynesia itself wasn't settled until fairly recent times. Artifacts and language families show that they actually didn't get to the islands themselves until 1500 BC or so (en.wikipedia.org...) -- which is about a thousand years after the building of the Pyramids in Egypt and well over 20,000 years after human beings showed up in North America. The earliest date for their arrival in Hawaii is 300 AD (en.wikipedia.org...)

So, basically, while they MIGHT have come here, it would have been very long after the land was settled. We don't see any "pure" Polynesian artifacts (which have some pretty specific things about them) and we don't see any Polynesian words or word-fractions along the South American coast.

Does that make sense?



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Both Mesoamerican and Northern Native American cultures felt the importance to adorn themselves with bird feathers. Some common ancestor to both these cultures must have started the trend. It's anyone's guess for a northern, central or southern start to the Native American start.

The one thing I know for sure is that there are Nahuatl words firmly planted in the Pacific Northwest. The Nahuatl language came from the Aztec empire. The Aztecs owe their existence to the Toltecs and Teotihuacans. It seems more likely that migration to the Pacific Northwest came from the south and or central America.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


Dear Byrd,

It makes sense. I understood that the Polynesians did not populate the Americas, I have always wondered why they would not have at least traveled here and to Asia. At least to do some limited trading.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Excellent find .. yeah I hadn’t realized they were that big until you show a comparison nice ..


Excellent find .. I know people may think I am a bit off on stuff ..but seriously some of the things just set me off. I do have a serious side about all this and even tho I do not submit myself to a common religion or the fact that I believe in Extraterrestrials and UFO's don’t make me any less of a fond researcher of ancient civilizations .. I have some theory’s about this ..

Having everything to do with POWER and CONTROL
sort of like king of the mountain ..

groups or civilizations formed .. yet they were still tribal .. these formations were about power money control and trade.. while other tribes walked away from all of this .. they did not see or view it necessary to have gold or big pyramids .. these other tribal people set off to possibly escape from the labor that was expected of or by these tribal people who were more advanced .. yet there were ways we shared wisdoms . and we shared agriculture.
understanding the trade within tribes is a very left out subject.. it had to do with many of things ..

Those are some very Large stones indeed.. Some how I still think that North America and South America were related indigenous peoples traveled lots of miles .. for the sake of trade or discovery .. just like Christopher Columbus traveled across the sea to NA .. SO did the Native tribal people .. and in those travels don’t you think there were times of interbreeding going on .. I do I don’t exclude it that’s for sure ..

My answer to this would be just as I said .. we were very distant from them for one and Trade was only used or needed if it meant something very special like mesa or corn..

Indigenous peoples of the Americas
en.wikipedia.org...

These are the things we talk about at our camp fires and these are the same things that were discussed many moons ago .. in councils they would have warrior scouts that went on long journeys to scope territory out they brought stuff with them to trade once they reached a unfamiliar tribe..
But many a times this did not work out and they lost their life’s ...
I don’t believe that our tribal peoples in the US and down south were into building big structures they were on the move ..there are many reasons thy had different locations by season .. they never were into the control or money or big Trade .. they were indeed respectful of mother earth ..not by means of shiny metals and big building structures .. I almost have to believe they feared these people .. and traded with caution..



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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Who took all the copper out of Michigans UP and northern Wisconsin thousands of years ago. Where did it go. It took a lot of people to mine tens of thousands of tons of the pretty stuff.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by mikellmikell
 


Of course they traded did I say that they didn’t ??? I said they had no need to build big pyramids like the ones found in South America and other places .. and I highly doubt that the Natives would take all the copper there is lots left .. Haha you make it sound like they had factories going on .. that’s nonsense
They had times to do things they did it by seasons and I think you will realize that these copper artifacts are tools and that was the reason for the trade .

Mining in Northern Wisconsin
www.wiscosinhistory.org...

North America's First Metal Miners & Metal Artisans
copperculture.homestead.com...
nice collection this stuff is worth some cash if you find any artifacts ...

As far as Michigan being stripped of the copper
I think you will find that it was not the Natives who actually took dangerous and destructive quantities of copper it was the European man



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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In one of his interviews Tesla said that "US is a holly land a place with maximum flow of energy". It is also known as the giant turtle among the indians because of its image seen from above. So i guess the ancient civilizations had only camps across the states for meditations, magic etc. they never build solid structures on the turtle's shell. And one more thing i cant figure it out how the ancient civilizations knew that the today part of america known as usa has a turtle like figure when they couldnt fly?
the Tesla interview (i think theres some kind of translator) www.val-znanje.com...
edit on 20/6/11 by Metaphysic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by lostinspace
 


Nahuatl actually has its roots in what is today the Great Basin of the United States. it's part of the Uto-Aztecan family. Speakers included the Shoshone, Ute, Comanche, Mexica, and Paiute. it's not unreasonable that some of their words would show up as loanwords in the northwest.

Could you give some examples, though? I'm afraid I'm only familiar with the Salishan languages in the northwest, and none of 'em seem terribly similar to what I've seen of Nahuatl.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by superjesse13132000
 

You do know that Mexico is apart of north america right? SO therefore their pyramids would be in north america. unless i am reading what you are asking wrong and if that is the case i am sorry.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 05:41 AM
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Most of the famous structures and pyramids we see in Mexico and Central America weren't built until recent times- around 2 to 3,000 years ago. Before that, the people who lived there were just like the ancients that lived in America for over 12,000 years.. They moved around alot, lived mainly in rock shelters and caves or made wooden shelter in woods, never farmed and got all their food from hunting. Around 1,000 BC they began farming and making permanent villages. I don't think it's unusual at all that they didn't make any huge pyramids.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Many tribal people from all over the world …adorned themselves with feathers and hand made beads from shells same for the use of the drum many tribes throughout the world uses the drum .. over in Africa, Australia, Island Natives .. Indigenous peoples shared many traits or similar traits ..
Which brings me to the conclusion that they were the original peoples who stayed true to the Great Spirit.. Spiritual based beliefs and did not join the advancing other civilizations ..they fled the opposite direction looking for land to be free of control of a master king leader .. rather they just had chiefs and clans. They never used human sacrifices or animal .



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