reply to post by Koinonia
Hi Koinonia –
You claim to know what in fact we do NOT know about the author (which is next to nothing) when you write in your post that you can identify the author
as an original disciple (i.e. a Galilean fisherman = R. Yohanon bar Zavdai (=John son of Zebedee) who was one of the 2 Benei Regesh, ‘sons of
Thunder’ and ‘one of those so-called Pillars of the Church’ at Jerusalem (at least, according to the denigratory titles given to them by Paul in
Galatians chapter 2) etc.
When it comes to authorship of this weird textual mess (called variously The Apocalypse of Yohanon the Diviner or The Book of Revelation, or the
Revelation of John the Elder etc.) we clearly know nothing about his identity except what we can gather from what is known as ‘internal
l. The author(s) called himself ‘Yohanon’ which was a common name in Palestine in the 1st century and could be anyone – his father is not listed
(generally one would write their name in those days in the Levant if they spoke Aramaic/Hebrew as ‘Yohanon bar xxxx’ i.e. John son of xxxx
2. The Author(s) wrote and thought primarily in Aramaic/Hebrew and not in Greek
3. The author(s) either had little expertise in handling Koine Greek idioms or another (i.e. other than the original author-compiler) was responsible
for ‘very badly translating’ an originally Heb-Aram. Poetical (?) Apocalyptic collection (was it ever finished?) into the Grammatical Greek Mess
that we see to-day in Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus & Codex Ephraemi Palimsest - along with all the scrappy Papyri fragments (e.g. the
Princeton Papyrus 0169 or the Oxford Sackler Papyrus 0308 etc. and all the other papyri that do not match the (3) major 4th and 5th century Greek hand
copied Codices listed above very closely in the Greek.
Or -- perhaps the translators wanted to retain some of the poetical literalness when bringing the text into Greek from Aramaic and Hebrew – which
may account for the ‘next to impossible Greek Grammatical Howlers’ in many passages that stump exact translation – much less into modern English
4. The Author(s) like the 'anonymous author' of the 'Epistle to the Hebrews' in the canonical Council-approved Greek New Testament (certainly not
Paul’s language at all !) was a (presumably Judaean..) priestly-Levite or someone who was very closely tied to the 2nd ‘Herodian’ Temple liturgy
and rites as they were understood and carried out either at Jerusalem or ‘virtually’ i.e. sacrifice by intense study and prayer at the the
Zadokite ‘virtual-Temple’ at Qumran near the Dead Sea – we can say this with some conviction in view of his evident technical knowledge of the
sacrificial Rites and daily activities of the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem (e.g. his apparent knowledge of the 7-daily TAMID Psalms from which he derives
much of his ‘vision’ imagery) as they are referred to with expert and often subtle literary references (like the author of Hebrews) which only a
person with Zadokite Levitical training would know –
And this ‘Jerusalemite’ (or Qumran Zadokite) priestly author- profile does NOT conform to an illiterate Galilean fisherman who was purportedly
put to death by Herod Antipas some time in the mid 40s AD – and the writer of the Book of Revelation clearly is writing in the late 60’s AD
probably during the hiatus in AD 69 in the middle of the 1st Failed Jewish War against Rome which was fought between AD 66 and AD 72 – mention that
the 2nd temple is still apparently standing and occupied by the goyim for 42-months in Rev. 11:2 – Herod’s 2nd Temple at Jerusalem was in fact
burned to the ground by the Roman Army some time in August of AD 70)
5. The Author(s) (very much like the Essenoid-like ‘Dead Sea Scroll Sons -of -Zadok-Sect’ at Qumran) held firm Messianic and other related
Doctrinal beliefs that were much different from most 2nd Temple Judaean priests serving in 1 week sets of priestly rotation bi-anually at the Temple
(the ruling Zaddukkim/ Sadduccees)
a. He/they held a belief (from his use of what he deemed to be sacred scripture as proof texting) in the ‘ divine inspiration’ of the Hebrew
Prophets and also the Psalms (unlike the the Sadduccees and the Sammaritim who ONLY held the Torah of Moses to be sacred ‘inspired scripture’, or
as they used to called it, ‘those scriptures of YHWH that are able to defile the hands’ which to them did not include the Psalms or the Prophets
or any other writings which they did not view as ‘sacred’…);
b. He/they held a belief in the Resurrection of the Righteous and Martyrs (which the Saduccees at Jerusalem also did not)
c. He/they held a belief in Angels and Daemons (also which the Saduccees at Jerusalem did not believe in).
6. We have no firm knowledge at all if the semi-anonymous Author / Compiler of the so-called ‘Book of Revelation’ even actually knew R. Yehoshua
bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (c. BCE 12 to c. 36 CE – Greek : ‘Iesous’ ) ‘in the flesh’ –
We cannot even say that the ORIGINAL author of the book even believed in R. Yehoshua to be the promised Messiah –
If you examine the Greek Textual Mess very carefully, you will see again and again only very limited & very partial references to ‘Iesous’ (though
there are a few more scattered references to a figure known as ‘the Ram’ that was newly slain – which could be a reference to John the Baptist
for all we know…or some other Messianic figure running around in the 1st century…) are often missing in many MSS and in several places are clearly
additions to an originally Jewish Messianic text –
And of course, this 'Messiah of David' could have been anyone (not automatically ‘Iesous’) of Daviddic blood who was thought to be able to
Regather the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el scattered among the Goyim’ back to Palestine where he would overcome the goyim
‘occcupiers of the land’ [ i.e. of Yisroe’l] in the Last Days, and from Jerusalem would ‘Rule over the Gentiles with a Rod of Iron, and Dash
them in Pieces like a Potter’s Vessel’ by the ‘Sharp Two Edged Sword of his Might’ etc.
Indeed reading the book through as a single piece as it appears in the messy Greek, the ‘Ram’ portions often look like afterthoughts added by a
later Editor to an originally non-Christian Apocalypse (i.e. the texts refer to a Messianic Saviour Figure without a specific name)
e.g. Rev 5:13-14 And Lo, I heard the Voice of every Creature from the midst of Heaven
and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
Praise & Honour and Glory and Power to HIM (sg) who sits upon the Throne forever,
[some MSS add ' and also to the Ram' - which of course is grammatically impossible in Greek since the precursor says HIM in the singular]
Also e.g. Rev 7:9-11 Where it appears the Ram was not originally part of the Final Blessing
After this I looked, and there before me was a great Multitude
So large that no son of man could count all of them
Even from every Nation,Tribe, People & Tongue all standing before the Throne
[and also before the Ram]
And lo, they were wearing white linen robes holding palm branches in their right hands.
And they began to cry out in a loud Voice: “Salvation belongs to YHWH our clan-God,
Even to HIM who sits as King on his Throne ! “
[and also to the Ram]
And I looked & behold, all the Angels gathered around the Throne
And with the 24 Elders & the 4 Hayyot they all fell down on their faces
Even before the Face[s] of the Throne & began to worship EL chanting in one voice, saying:
“Amen! Praise & Glory & Wisdom & Thanksgiving
And Honour & Power and Might be to our clan-god
Even for Ever & Ever . Amen! ”
[notice that there is no reference to ‘and also to the Ram’ here in the Greek MSS where it would normally be added]
As for NOT mentioning that the Messiah would rule over the defeated goyim (gentiles), this is refuted by the final chapters, all derived from
tritoIsaiah chapters 60-66
Here is what the Author of Revelation 21:22-26 states:
And I looked & behold, I saw: the Goyim who survived the Tribulation were being marched into the City
And by the Glow of its light I could see that the Kings of the Gentiles were pouring their Wealth into the City,
Even those Goyim who were defeated in the Battle who were all bringing Tributes & Gifts to the Elect Ones of Yisro’el…
And lo, I was shown in the Middle of the Broad Avenue the Tree of Life
Which bore 12 different Fruits all year long, 1 each for the 12 Tribes of Yisro’el
Whose Leaves the Defeated Gentiles were using as Medicines to treat their Battle Scars…
Many of the Key Images in chapter 21 of the Book of Revelation were 'lifted' whole cloth (i.e. stolen) from the Aramaic Targum of the Book of the
Prophet Trito-Isaiah see chapters 60: 4-21
“Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All are assembling & come to you;
Lo, all your sons shall come from distant lands,
Your daughters shall be carried on the backs of the Gentiles.
In that Day you will look glorious & shall shine with Radiance ,
For the Wealth of the Goyim shall be brought to you, even by ship !
Yea, All the Riches of the Gentiles will flow into you…
All these they will be accepted as offerings on my Altar,
So that I may adorn my glorious Temple with them, saith YHWH.
In that Day, the Gentiles shall carry on their backs your exiled sons
Even from the 4 corners of the Earth and returned to the Holy City
Along with all the Silver and Gold of the Gentiles !
For they shall pay Tribute to your clan god YHWH, the Holy One of Israel !
Yea, he shall endow your gates with splendor.
Yea, in that Day the Goyim will patch the Breeches in your Walls,
Moreover , all of the Kings of the Gentiles will bow down and serve you.
Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night,
so that people may bring you the wealth of the Goyim into your gates !
Yea, the Gentile Kings shall all be led in Triumphal Procession before your face[s]
And any N ation of the Gentiles or any Kingdom of the Goyim that dare not serve you
Will be destroyed, yea they all shall utterly be exterminated without Remnant.
For in that Day I shall glorify the place for my feet.
Yea, the sons of your Oppressors will come bowing before you;
And all who had despised you will bow down at your feet !
And you shall be called the City of Zion
And you shall all belong to YHWH, the Holy One of Israel
And I will make you an Everlasting pride for your descendants
And you shall be the Joy of all future generations.
You will suck the Milk of the Gentiles,
and be nursed at the breasts of their Royalty ! .
In that Day, in place of bronze there shall be Gold for you
And in the Place of Iron there shall be Silver for you
Instead of wood there will be Bronze for you
And in Place of Stones, there will be Iron for you
And no longer will Violence again be heard in the land of Yisro'el
Nor Ruin or Destruction within your borders !
You will call your walls ‘Salvation’
And your gates shall be named ‘Praise’.
The Sun will no more be your light by day,
Nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you,
for YHWH will be your everlasting light,
And your clan-god will be your glory.
Your Sun will never set again upon you
And and your moon will wane no more;
YHWH will be your everlasting light,
And your days of sorrow will end.
Then all your people will be righteous
And they will possess the land of Yisro’el for Eternity .
They are the shoot I have planted,
Even the work of my hands,
And for the display of my splendor.
The least of you will become a Thousand strong
And the smallest among you a Mighty Nation
For I am YHWH - And the time for all this to happen is very near !
Also see the Targum of trito-Isaiah 66:19-30 which also was stolen/adapted by the author of the Book off Revelation (and notice all the OGH - Overt
Gentile-Hatred and the WAR language throughout !)
When you see this, your heart will rejoice
For the hand of YHWH will be made known to his servants,
but his Vengeance shall be wreaked on all of his Enemies
For on that Day, Behold, YHWH is coming with fire,
His Chariots are like a mighty whirlwind
He will show his anger with fury & his rebuke with flames of fire.
For with fire and with his sword
YHWH will execute judgment on all the Gentiles
And many will be those who will be slain by YHWH.
Even those who dare to enter into my sacred gardens thknking themselves pure
But on the heels of those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other ritually unclean things—
They will meet their end together with the one they are following,” says YHWH.
And I, because of what they have planned and done, I am about to come
To gather my people from amongst all the Gentiles and Tongues,
So that they may come to Zion and behold my glory.
For I shall set a Sign among them, even survivors living among the Goyim
Even to Tarshish, and to Lydia famous for its bowmen
And also to Libya and to Tubal and al the Isles of the Greeks.
And I shall sent to distant islands that never heard of or witnessed my Glory .
These will proclaim my glory to the Goyim
And they will bring representatives from the Gentiles,
And they shall all come to my holy mountain in Jerusalem
Even as Guilt offerings to YHWH—as Israelites bring their grain offerings,
They shall come to the temple of YHWH in ceremonially clean vessels.
And I will choose some of them also to be priests & Levites,” says YHWH
As the new heavens and the new earth that I make
It shall will endure forever before my face[s]
So will your name and descendants endure forever.
Even from one New Moon to another & from one Sabbath to another,
So that in that Day all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says YHWH.
All of which suggests the author of the Book of Revelation was not (in actual 'fact') privy to any divine physical 'Vision' of End Times, but
rather merely cobbled together a kind of Aramaic Poetical Midrash on the Tanakh wiith some focus on the Last Days derived from older texts known to
his audience i.e. the Torah, Prophets and the Psalms to inspire the troops, as they say, during what was rapidly turning into a Lost Cause for the
Judaens in their Messianic Hope to overthrow the Romans in Jerusalem and put a Daviddic King on the Throne.
In fact the more you source his materials out, the more 1st Failed Jewish War (i.e. AD 66) language and overt Gentile Hatred emerges in the text......