Jehovah's Witnesses Founders Believed In Ancient Alien Theory

Originally posted by The Great Day

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I just noticed how quick the competition started on this thread as to who's religion was right or wrong.

Cant believe i starred a guy named Demoncreeper...... and i am responding to only this part of your post,

but ya i can not be bothered in this time in history defending anything, what will be will be. I have no control, universe show me the way. If there is a supreme creator, he will show his presence and he will know that i(we) are confused humans who only want to have their hearts appreciated and good recognized.....is it my fault i am imperfect...


hell no, and if there is an all knowing supreme creator.....he knows this.


I was raised religious...i used to judge and be judged...


now i just live...and i am happy.


ps.... interesting Blog phtttt.

edit on 30-5-2011 by The Great Day because: (no reason given)

My name, by no means, signifies an evil entity. It's like a play on the decay of society. Little demons creeping everywhere, un noticed. I appreciate the star. And your comment makes perfect sense. Starred right back. haha.

Originally posted by Toldyouso
I have a close friend who is a MS (one level lower than elder) and this thread is total crap.

The JW's have never taught this and they have printed magazines and books from the start. Is this written in any of their publications? If not then this thread should be moved to the SKUNK bin.

ummm did you read the OP? The information is quotes from WBTS publications... And just to make sure this is true I called my Uncle who has every single book the WBTS society ever published and asked him look in quoted books and confirm this is indeed there... His reaction was "yes it's true that the early witnesses believed Jehovah lived on a planet, where did you hear this?" He didn't sound too happy, and when I asked him for more info he wouldn't talk about it anymore... he's an elder whose father had been a witness since 1912 and claimed to be of the annointed.... the man knows Witness history forwards and backwards... and for the record half of the males in my family are elders including my father....

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So it took you nine posts to do what you should have done in your first. Maybe you can improve on that next time.

reply to post by Blueracer


source

noyurtypical is right about this.... I could give you multiple references, but I believe this one should suffice...

A mispronunciation (introduced by Christian theologians, but almost entirely disregarded by the Jews) of the Hebrew "Yhwh," the (ineffable) name of God (the Tetragrammaton or "Shem ha-Meforash"). This pronunciation is grammatically impossible; it arose through pronouncing the vowels of the "ḳere" (marginal reading of the Masorites: = "Adonay") with the consonants of the "ketib" (text-reading: = "Yhwh")—"Adonay" (the Lord) being substituted with one exception wherever Yhwh occurs in the Biblical and liturgical books. "Adonay" presents the vowels "shewa" (the composite under the guttural א becomes simple under the י), "ḥolem," and "ḳameẓ," and these give the reading (= "Jehovah"). Sometimes, when the two names and occur together, the former is pointed with "ḥatef segol" () under the י —thus, (="Jehovah")—to indicate that in this combination it is to be pronounced "Elohim" (). These substitutions of "Adonay"and "Elohim" for Yhwh were devised to avoid the profanation of the Ineffable Name (hence is also written , or even , and read "ha-Shem" = "the Name ").

The reading "Jehovah" is a comparatively recent invention. The earlier Christian commentators report that the Tetragrammaton was written but not pronounced by the Jews (see Theodoret, "Question. xv. in Ex." [Field, "Hexapla," i. 90, to Ex. vi. 3]; Jerome, "Præfatio Regnorum," and his letter to Marcellus, "Epistola," 136, where he notices that "PIPI" [= ΠIΠI = ] is presented in Greek manuscripts; Origen, see "Hexapla" to Ps. lxxi. 18 and Isa. i. 2; comp. concordance to LXX. by Hatch and Redpath, under ΠIΠI, which occasionally takes the place of the usual κύριος, in Philo's Bible quotations; κύριος = "Adonay" is the regular translation; see also Aquila).

"Jehovah" is generally held to have been the invention of Pope Leo X.'s confessor, Peter Galatin ("De Arcanis Catholicæ Veritatis," 1518, folio xliii.), who was followed in the use of this hybrid form by Fagius (= Büchlein, 1504-49). Drusius (= Van der Driesche, 1550-1616) was the first to ascribe to Peter Galatin the use of "Jehovah," and this view has been taken since...

reply to post by Blueracer


oops looks like you already the info you were asking for....

Jehovah Witness's Gravesite of Charles Taze Russell,one of the founding fathers of this religion/cult/or what ever you want to believe in.

Pyramids,Masons,Aliens.........oh my.....................................................................

Good luck debunking his headstone.

reply to post by sonnny1


I don't think Russell was a mason.... That isn't to say that many other high ranking members of the wbts, and elders in congregations, in the early days were not members of secret societies... most prevelantly the Rosicrucians from the stories I've heard through the years... Though he did have many beliefs which correlated with masonic teachings... This is because he pulled from many different ancient traditions to formulate his "truth", as do the masons... he also used symbols, which the mason's and other secret societies use, from ancient traditions... he even gave a sermon on these correlations... this is a pretty good article which breaks the argument down quite nicely... www.octaman.com...

he certainly did consider the pyramid of Giza God's witness... he used them to back up his end times dates... thus the monument...

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman


I just lumped it all together. I find it ironic that those who worship this religion,wouldn't even want to know their origins. Obviously,what they taught then and now differs.





The Divine Plan of the Ages


S&F BTW......................

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
"Jehovah" is not the Father's name.

It's impossible. I love pointing this out to JWs.

It's a moot point, any decently-versed Jehovah's Witness should know that God's name is the Hebrew tetragrammaton, 'YHWH' in English (we don't know for certain the original vowel sounds). In Latin and some Latin-based languages, J often substitutes Y, and V often substitutes W. So we have 'JHVH'. In short, since as early as the 1200s, vowels were added to make JEHOVAH, which ultimately became the commonly accepted anglicization of God's name. Today a number of scholars prefer Yahweh, as it's likely more accurate, but the usage of Jehovah was more widespread.
I'm fairly certain that this is explained in much greater detail in some of the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, so I don't see a reason why they shouldn't know this unless they haven't read enough about it. Maybe they didn't understand that you were making a point of details, rather than denying the divine name?

(EDIT: I hadn't read the second page where you demonstrate your basic knowledge of Hebrew, so I apologize if I spent too much of the previous paragraph just discussing the basics)

I think the point stands that whether or not you think the traditional translation 'Jehovah' is good enough, Jehovah's Witnesses are certainly making a great effort to use the Father's personal name, which was originally recorded in the Scriptures for a reason. How many other denominations, protestant or otherwise, have accomplished that to such a degree? Besides, it's more accurate than getting 'Jesus' out of something closer to 'Yehoshua', at least

reply to post by sonnny1

Regarding the video of Russell's grave, I'm fairly certain the monument is shaped in a pyramid because of Russell's speculation that the design of the Great Pyramid of Giza was inspired of God, rather than because of any supposed masonic or occult symbolism. I really don't see anything that would need to be debunked; it's hardly a secret (though it was one of Russell's more unusual conclusions).
Jehovah's Witnesses progressed a lot since his time, and soon concluded that the Bible was what all Christian beliefs should be centered on, not any unscriptural speculations. Interestingly though, there are still Bible Student denominations that follow Russell's original conclusions, including his pyramid speculation.

Of course, the pyramid theory is enough for many conspiracy theorists to have a field day

Originally posted by Golithion
So that's why they wear the golden underwear or am I thinking of mormons on that? All I know is the long conversation of conversion came to an end when I asked, so what's up with the golden underwear thing? They had no answer and left.

You were thinking of Mormons If you were talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, I can see why they would have no answer, lol

Originally posted by HardbeatAcolyte


Of course, the pyramid theory is enough for many conspiracy theorists to have a field day

Even though the Witnesses have moved on,I find it funny that they would not want to know their religious past,and would want to know how their religion started. I could go on and on on how those who question any aspect of that religion,gets labeled.......... I also wonder if intelligent life,somewhere other then here on earth is discovered,will give those "religions",like Scientology, an "I told you so " moment. I would think believing in aliens,or preaching about them would garner more supporters. Sort of like the Vatican's new stance on ET. Maybe the Witnesses founders were ahead of their times.........

On God's name, ask yourself what language are we posting in ?
ENGLISH
Which language version of the bible to you have the ability to read and understand ?
ENGLISH
God's name in that bible is in what language?
ENGLISH

I agree that God's name in HEBREW is not Jehovah, but Yahweh.
As mentioned "J" never existed in Hebrew, but it does now in ENGLISH, and many words in the bible have "J" especially names.

Thus in ENGLISH it is Jehovah, I have spent many hours studing this very topic.

We are dealing with the semantics of language here.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


You're incorrect...

Even if you take the Latin translation of YHWH, which is JHVH, and call it the "English" translation you are still left with the incorrect vowels and vowel points... Thus you would end up with something like Jahweh or Jahveh in English...

Even Jehovah's Witnesses admit that Jehovah is an incorrect translation... They only continue to use it because it is better known...

EYES WIDE SHUT? OR EYES WIDE OPEN? IT IS YOUR DECISION..

reply to post by YAHUWAH SAVES


I prefer squinting...it make it easier to see between the lines... I am curious as to your opinion on the OP...

Originally posted by YAHUWAH SAVES
EYES WIDE SHUT? OR EYES WIDE OPEN? IT IS YOUR DECISION..

I look at your signature and know the scripture well(Psalms 83:18)....but i think.....

most high over all the earth?.....thats it?....just the earth?......


so not really the most high?....just the most high over the earth?...

Open plead to all to explain this too me.

Please and thanks.

reply to post by The Great Day


This could be explained a hundred different ways... all depending on which sect and interpretation of the scriptures you follow... some would even argue that it is Satan, not Yahweh, who is the chief ruler of earth...

I personally am of the opinion that Yahweh is simply this earth's lead creator and savior, and that there indeed is a higher God, or power, than him in the universe...

Of course I don't really hold this as a belief, because I'm agnostic... If God's do exist, which I hold as a possibility, it's just the most plausible explanation from my research of the bible and other ancient texts...

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman


Actually you are wrong, I have proved it to myself through instense deep secular study outside of any religious dogma. The English bibles that choose to use God's name, use Jehovah.
You are not smarter than ALL those translators of the bible. If you think you are, you are sadly just prejudiced against a name.

Here is a sampling of Psalm 83:18 in various bibles


Third Millennium Bible
That men may know that Thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth.

King James Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

The Bible in Living English
And know it is you alone that are named Jehovah, on high over all the earth.

The New World Translation
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

New Simplified Bible
That they may know that you alone, whose name is Jehovah, are the Most High over all the earth.

American King James Version
That men may know that you, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, are the most high over all the earth.

Darby Bible Translation
That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, art the Most High over all the earth.

English Revised Version
That they may know that thou alone, whose name is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth.

Webster's Bible Translation
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Young's Literal Translation
And they know that Thou -- (Thy name is Jehovah -- by Thyself,) Art the Most High over all the earth!

American Standard Version
That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth.

Geneva Study Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.


Those bible are not wrong, you are.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


almost all scholars agree Yahweh is the superior translation... although it's probably not even correct... I did my thesis in seminary school on this subject... I promise you have not researched this more than me... just because bible translators have continued to use Jehovah because it is the common translation doesn't make it correct...