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Released: Jose Guerena SWAT Raid Video From Helmet Cam

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posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by wasco2
reply to post by J0SHUA
 


You are ignoring some FACTS.

They were in his yard with marked vehicles with lights and sirens on.


He was supposed to see the marked vehicles and lights through his opaque front door?

The guy is woken up by his panicing wife, telling him some maniac is at the side of his house, pointing a machine gun at her through a window. Lots of yelling ensues between himself and his wife, telling her to calm down, telling her to get his kid and herself into a closet. He runs for his rifle, and begins sprinting from room to room, looking out windows facing the side of his house, his back yard, etc., all while he and his wife are still yelling back and forth to one another. At some point during this fiasco, the cops are yelling and banging on his door. He doesn't understand what they're saying, he just hears yelling and banging. So he approaches the front of his house, rifle still in hand. Suddenly, the door bursts open, and he eats 60 bullets.

This is a plausible possibility. Where within this possibility do you see him recognizing marked vehicles and police lights?


They pounded on the door and yelled, in English and Spanish, "POLICE, WE HAVE A WARRANT, OPEN THE DOOR!!". They did this for 15 seconds.


How do you know he was standing behind his front door during those 15 seconds? Again, he could have been at the back of his house, looking out other windows into his back yard, in an attempt to find the "stranger" that his wife saw through her window, while at the same time yelling back and forth at her to get his kid into that closet. Think about this. If someone is at your front door, pounding on it and yelling through it at you, and if you're at the other end of the house, can you understand what the person doing the yelling is saying? And can you understand what they're saying if you're also simultaneously yelling back and forth to your wife in another room?

While it is extremely probable that he heard the the police's yelling and banging, it is equally probable that he couldn't understand their words because of the circumstances transpiring within his home. (Or are you going to tell me you've never once in your life had to say "what?" in order to get someone to repeat something they've said to you -- even someone standing right next to you in the same room?)


They had vests on with POLICE clearly marked on the front of them.


Again, he was supposed to see this through his opaque front door?


The wife looked out a window and was shown a badge and ID and told to open the door.


Says who? The wife? Or the police? Let me guess. The police.

Ask yourself this. When a SWAT officer is circling a property pointing his machine gun through windows, does he have a 3rd arm with which to continuously hold up his badge/ID while his other 2 arms are busy holding the machine gun? No. And ask yourself this as well: if you glance out a window and see some dude pointing the barrel of his machine gun at you, are you going to just stand there and wait for him to reach into his pocket and produce ID (lol!), or are you going to immediately duck the hell out of his line of fire? Well, yeah: the answer is, you're going to immediately take cover. So, what very likely happened is that the SWAT officer was not showing any ID at the very instant she caught sight of him, and that had he even attempted to pull out that ID, the wife would have long since ducked out of his sights. And with that, it's quite easy to understand how she would have concluded that some maniac -- as opposed to a cop -- was prowling her property, and why she would havee relayed said information along to her husband.

Keep in mind that on top of all this, there would have been the element of extreme surprise and extreme fear on her part to cloud the entire encounter even further.


There is little doubt she knew it was the police.


Yes, there is. Above.




posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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If that woman didn't know it was SWAT at her door then she is blind, deaf, and dumb as in stupid. She got her husband killed by causing him such alarm when she should have been a bit more alert.

Oh my god a terrorist is at the door get your gun!!!!!! Oh, it was just the postman. Whoops.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by J0SHUA


She saw one SWAT member pointing a machine gun at her through one window. Not the entire SWAT team. Not even a subset of it. Just one. And if you are a member of the general public (as opposed to a cop who spends his professional life around the associated gear and immediately recognizes it for what it is), one guy in a SWAT outfit pointing a machine gun at you through a window can easily be mistaken for a trespassing lunatic who believes he's G.I. Joe. Especially if you only get a one-second glimpse at him before ducking out of his line of fire, followed by making a beeline for another room, screaming for your husband.


She CLAIMS to have only seen one. She also claims to not have heard the sirens. She claims a LOT of things that dont necessarily make sense that people on this thread take as Gospel, as you are doing.

I'm not defending the actions of the swat team. I 'm pointing out the total lack of critical thinking skills on display by many in this thread who believe the story as reported by basically one source.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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There are too many holes in the police side of the story to take that as gospel as well though. First their story was they were there for drugs, and found no drugs. Then their story changed to wanted for armed home robberies... And conveniently the warrant was sealed. They lied once, sealed the warrant, then released a video, but after a long time. Why did they wait? To edit in the sirens, that none of the neighbors heard either? I keep hearing bullcrap about them announcing themselves as police as well. They did not. Those are people in the distance, On this tape, you can hear a knock, clearly, but not hear anyone announce police clearly? You hear muffled voices in the distance, that is all. Knock, breach, then open fire. No one announced police, no one said drop your weapon. The video speaks for itself.

Seriously, rewatch it, at around 25 seconds, you can hear the pig knock. Did you hear anyone yell police nearly as clear as you hear that knock? Didn't happen. Knock, then a few seconds later they knock the door down. The police are the liars here, I will take her word over the police.
edit on Sat, 04 Jun 2011 16:54:03 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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This team screwed up, bigtime! I wouldn't be surprised if they accidently kicked down the wrong door, and are now trying to cover their asses.

Someone pounded on my door, and then kicked it in, they will get shot. I will defend my home and my family. If the police ever want to pay me a visit, they damn well better be civil and knock and talk to me. If I go down like that, speghetti monster help them, they will have 3 insane veteran uncles coming after them, with the backup of a few hells angels chapters.
edit on Sat, 04 Jun 2011 17:09:25 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
There are too many holes in the police side of the story to take that as gospel as well though.


But that is a straw man, as I am not doing that. In fact, I dont think anyone is. What is being brought into questions is why most in this thread unquestioningly believe only one side of this story. That is not denying ignorance, IMO. Posting "I hate cops" gets one a lot of stars though!



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


In cases like this, does that surprise you? I just watched the video again, before posting. I now just noticed, that you can actually hear a knock on the door, hear the radio, but cannot hear clearly anyone announce themselves as police.

Do I hate police, no. Hate is a waste of emotional energy, hate begets more hate. Violence begets more violence. Police, here, let out a buttload of violence, and in return will get some back. Believe you me, everytime crap like this happens, the call upon themselves more violence in the future. Sad thing is, it might not even happen to them, but some other poor sap cop that has nothing to do with it. But it will be because of them.

Honestly, I feel disgust for these SWAT members. I can't change what they did, I can't change what they will do next time.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL


Someone pounded on my door, and then kicked it in, they will get shot. I will defend my home and my family.


Well, I'd suggest you take a moment to find out if it is a fully-dressed SWAT team in a clearly marked vehicle with sirens on or you might get shot too.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


Possibly I will. But I have body armor too, among other surprises. It would be in their best interest to knock like gentleman. I will bow to no man, ever. Better to take the gentleman approach, than to kick my door in like a common thief.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


Possibly I will. But I have body armor too, among other surprises. It would be in their best interest to knock like gentleman. I will bow to no man, ever. Better to take the gentleman approach, than to kick my door in like a common thief.

And be that as it may, such chest-thumping doesnt actually address the inconsistencies of either side of this story, or why the majority on ATS only question ONE side of the story and not both.
edit on 4-6-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


I would venture to guess, why a majority only question the cop side.... Because a whole lot of us have been victims of the cop side. If you are interested, I will tell you the reason why I do not trust police. I have posted it here before at one time or another, I do not know if you saw the post or not. I would think many others have experienced a wake up call like I did. I used to trust the police, until they turned on me.

Also, it has nothing to do with ches thumping, I am just stating facts. I have body armor, I purchased the holders, and made my own plates. This occured after an incident as a law worshipping citizen, I was crapped on by the police.
edit on Sat, 04 Jun 2011 17:59:18 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


S how does any of that emotion actually relate to an informed reading of the seriously flawed information available in this story as reported?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Well as a brit Im glad I dont live in the USA land of the free.... That was a shameful bit of police work. Guy was on night shift and was woken up by his wife and kid panicing? He was no doubt groggy and not thinking straight. Ex soldier was doing what any man would do, to protect his home. Thats the norm in the USA were people are armed and expected, to defend the home range. I hope those police all go to jail. But I guess they will get off free.
edit on 4-6-2011 by illuminnaughty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by illuminnaughty
I hope those police all go to jail. But I guess they will get off free.


What specific laws do you think they have broken here?



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


I am judging off the video only here. I told my story, only so you might know why I do not trust police anymore. I am not alone by a long shot being treated like a criminal for no good reason. That is why a lot of people dislike the police. I could really care less about the police, the last town in NY I lived in had no police, the town I live in now in canada has no police. I have never felt safer.

Oh yeah, sorry, I meant to ask you in the last post if you wanted to hear why I no longer trust the police. I guess I forgot.
edit on Sat, 04 Jun 2011 18:14:46 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


What law? well they never found no drugs or anything did they? So the police can enter your home and murder you with out any evidence? ``Oh I think hes a drug dealer`` well we had best go there and smash his door down and shoot him if he resists or dosnt open the door straight away. As I said Im glad I dont live there.
Any way thats what you americans have been doing all over the planet, so I guess a bit of it at home is the norm. Its proberly the expected thing to do if you are an American.
edit on 4-6-2011 by illuminnaughty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by illuminnaughty
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


What law? well they never found no drugs or anything did they? So the police can enter your home and murder you with out any evidence? ``Oh I think hes a drug dealer`` well we had best go there and smash his door down and shoot him if he resists or dosnt open the door straight away. As I said Im glad I dont live there.



In other words, you are answering with your emotions and not your intellect.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Well, you'll be forgiven then for not actually knowing the full context of the case i suppose. PErhaps you should read up on it a bit and find out the context behind the video, including the wife's claims that she didnt realize the guys in her yard with their sirens on were SWAT.



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


Yes you are correct , emotions got the better of me. There again they didnt shoot his wife and child, so its not to bad eh...



posted on Jun, 4 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


What do you mean? I was following the case from the first thread here. where they claimed that they were looking for drugs, and didn't find any. Then a while later they claimed they were looking for a robber, that dressed like a cop, and they found an arsenal, and an ICE hat I think it was. And they sealed the warrant they were supposed to be serving, why? To cover their asses.

In this thread I commented on how you can hear a knock clearly, hear them kick in the door clearly, yet you never hear them announce police clearly. My observations here are on the video provided supposedly by the police. What flaw can you find in that?



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