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The only Answer to the only Question

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posted on May, 27 2011 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
It is better that there is something, and something to be shared in mutual experience and varied impressions, than nothing.

Therefore, love is the very reason, and thus the first/last cause of all existence.

There is a rational basis then for loving devotion of an unseen God who may freely express himself and his love for us and through us by our own love of God above all (as the center and source of love) and of neighbor as self (as we are first loved by the first/last cause who is love) in loving mutuality, since there is truth no separate self within the framework of the unconditioned ground of all being and becoming, only the mutual love eternal.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last."

It is nice to see that the understanding, the playful mirth, and joy and humor of true understanding, has come and is coming. Hurray!

And the bride and the bridegroom say - Come, and drink freely the living water (eternal life).

There is no escape, and no need to escape, only to evolve relative to the first/last cause of love.

Then we will be able, with faith the size of but a tiny seed, say to the mountain (of historical causation) MOVE, and it WILL MOVE, can't not with such understanding making itself known.

Principals must be proven right by their application. What FUN then, if the foundational principal of universal causation and all manner of creativity and enjoyment in eternity, is love itself, eh?

Godspeed,

NAM


edit on 27-5-2011 by NewAgeMan because: I love you.



We are not God learning about ourselves. Would you rather a delusional drama or the one True, Real thing. We as delusional selves can do nothing but participate in drama and longing.

Love is God. Wholeness and completeness is God. Everyhting else is drama. Delusion creates, evolves, progresses. Time does not exist in Reality. It is complete.

drama: a situation or sequence of events that is highly emotional, tragic, or turbulent

The end of time is an actual event. And what comes "after" is what is not and never been in time.




posted on May, 27 2011 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 

Dear rwfresh


Anyone who has ever attempted to communicate absolute truth lied. You will recognize absolute truth the moment precisely before time ends. That moment has been pre-determined by we as Truth.

I am not selling absolute truth. I am expressing the opposite. We all are, and can do nothing else but.


I must go slowly as I am easily confused.



Anyone who has ever attempted to communicate absolute truth lied.
For me, the use of the word "anyone" and the phrase "ever attempted" sound very much like they are being presented as absolutes, making the whole sentence an absolute truth and you a liar. Do I understand you correctly here?



You will recognize absolute truth the moment precisely before time ends.
Where, from within this framework I think you are calling time is there any indication that time will end? I'm not saying it won't, or it will, I'm just saying that as I look around this non-reality, do you call it, I see no indications that it will. Therefor I must surmise that your information must come from that absolute place which makes you it's communicator and once again a liar.
Yes? No? I'm confused



That moment has been pre-determined by we as Truth.


The moment before time ends? We predetermined it when? Yesterday? Before time began? But didn't you say we don't exist outside of time, this non-reality? Now I'm really confused.


I am not selling absolute truth.
Another absolute statement making it a lie which means you are selling absolute truth.


I am expressing the opposite.


And that is what? You are buying absolute truth?
You are selling absolute lies?
Don't opposites mean absolutes?




We all are, and can do nothing else but.
I guess here you are saying we are all liars and have no choice in the matter which of course seeing that this sentence is riddled with absolute words like all and nothing, makes this thought a lie also and all we can do is tell the truth..

Yours in confusion,

T




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posted on May, 27 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


Could you elaborate on what you mean by "the drama".

I like the way you think.

End of time - I've caught glimpses of that, scared me at first, since at first I thought it might mean embracing nihilism or the destruction of life, but now I think that was my deluded self talking.



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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The reflection analyzing itself.
Think!



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 


I am also confused. Anyone looking for truth in a place where it cannot exist will be confused and at risk of total delusion. I see lots of people claiming absolute truth but i am definitely not one of them. But there is no consequence in denial except that which is experienced through the drama of non-reality. Personal denial of truth has no effect on Reality/Truth/Eternity.

What i am expressing, maybe in a more painfully obvious way for some, is delusion. So it can be frustrating if the drama someone has committed to is the attainment of absolute truth. But again, ANYTHING you do in non-reality has no consequence in the context of Reality (except that which is experienced through the drama of non-reality). The drama of morality is a great example of delusional consequence.

I'm not here telling anyone that what i am saying is absolute Truth. What i am saying, is that nothing else can be truer than being aware of the inescapable delusion of time. And that is also not Truth/Reality/Eternity and will not get you any closer to it either.

There is a beginning and an end of time. This bit of info is the only real nugget of useful information passed on throughout all gnostic/spiritual traditions. But it is overlooked because people (including myself and everyone) are the drama they are absorbed in.

Somewhere down the road people got the impression that they could personally end time(become/merge/experience Reality) through practice (disassociation, meditation, prayer etc). And then this was the answer to suffering, a way to tolerate non-reality. It became a purpose as a human or soul or spirit to merge with God/Truth/Love. I am saying this is ALL delusion. There is nothing wrong with it on it's own.. It has no positive or negative effect on Absolute Truth. It can't.

It's all drama. And the drama is a by-product of delusion. Delusion creates the drama - soul ascension, aliens, universes, dimensions, politics, life, death.. All as "real" as our individual deluded selves. All the stories of who and what we are, what this is.. All drama in time.

Yes it is a contradiction. But making the contradiction apparent or obvious is only useful if you as God can end it. Meaning, let's for absolutely no reason, agree for a moment that everything i am saying is a complete contradiction. By fully accepting it we are no closer to truth. You want me to give you Truth (if you are being honest). And i would LOVE with all my heart and dramatic soul for you to give me the Truth. My entire existence revolves around my absolute hunger, admiration, anger, love, fear for it. But neither of us will get it. EVER. But it is all that exists in Reality/Truth/Eternity.

And if you can end the contradiction it all ends. Time ends. And obviously it has not ended. We are in it. No self has attained Reality/Eternity/Truth.

The end of time is pre-determined. By you/us as God, apparently outside of delusional time. What i am saying is not unique and has been said before. But what may not be apparent to everyone is that there is nothing novel left in time except the moment precisely before it ends. This is the second coming. The end of time is the root of ALL drama. It's how all drama comes together. It's how in the end (literally) Truth is revealed. The ultimate deja vu. But the moment before time ends is still absolutely nothing in the context of God/Truth/Reality.



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by xizd1
The reflection analyzing itself.
Think!


Drama and delusion. Tolerable.. but dramatic and not Truth.



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by rwfresh
 


Could you elaborate on what you mean by "the drama".

I like the way you think.

End of time - I've caught glimpses of that, scared me at first, since at first I thought it might mean embracing nihilism or the destruction of life, but now I think that was my deluded self talking.


The absolute Wholeness of Reality/Eternity can only be compared to Nothing in the context of non-reality. Which is why entire esoteric schools have in delusion, inspired millions of people to confuse the Void with God/Truth/Reality. Drama. In Reality there is no drama. There is no separation. No story. No sequence. But it is not nothing. That is a dramatic and delusional comparison. One i subscribe to.

By drama i mean non-reality. This thing we are in.. Time. a sequence of events which we are completely engaged in. Even meditating and apparently escaping time is marked by the moments before and after escape.
Everything is a delusional story line. People looking to experience, commune with, become God/Reality/Truth even get their own drama in which this becomes possible, "real" and completely engaging. "We are God experiencing ourselves", "We are souls attaining Godhood through ascension", "Everything we see, touch, feel, smell, imagine is God", "There are multiple spheres/dimensions/states, all are parts of God, move your awareness into the wholeness". It's all delusion.

Reality/Truth is what everyone wants as far as I'm concerned. No self has ever attained it. If they had we would not be here. What did Buddha come up with? I'm sure he would have liked to dissolve everyone's ego into Reality because he realized his own freedom was not possible until the end of Time. So he taught the middle path hoping to speed things up. But people cannot attain Truth. Truth attains Truth.

Jesus said (I'm paraphrasing) : "Those who hear will hear, the end of time will come but only the thing that is not bound in it (the Father) can know when that moment is. So in the meantime love each other and p.s. i will take all your sin away so you can all subscribe to a freer drama while you wait"

What about the Jesus or a "Master" fully associated with Truth that pierces non-Reality ending it in an instant? How can Truth be in what is not real? It can't and it hasn't. When it arrives non-Reality ceases. This is the end of time. The second coming. The Answer, the end of the story where all fantasies and delusional drama merge together into a single a-ha moment and realization.



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


Would it be "drama" to consider life as an evolutionary process, and are you not into a big time drama in resistence to this thing called "drama", and what's wrong with the notion of life as a story unfolding..?



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by rwfresh
 


Would it be "drama" to consider life as an evolutionary process, and are you not into a big time drama in resistence to this thing called "drama", and what's wrong with the notion of life as a story unfolding..?


"Life as an evolutionary process" is drama. And yes.. i am totally engaged in drama! I've got my own secret drama i love being absorbed in. And we are all engaged in multiple dramas.. Family, Politics, Spirituality.. And my favorite drama is believing that the end of time results in the Truth/Reality/Love/God from which all drama is rooted in. It's all delusional.

If you were Reality would you be bound by it's apparent rules? Rules of evolution for instance? In Reality it would seem that all potential would exist in full expression.. from what i can tell. Evolution is an illusion, rooted in the context of Time. So becoming absorbed with the idea of evolution is simply lending yourself to the delusion of it. But it's as real as anything in non-Reality. It does seem as though things are evolving doesn't it? I don't believe it though even though i have no power over it.

In case it hasn't been clear I've come to believe that everything but Truth is a drama. It's fantasy, all absorbing and engaging.



posted on May, 27 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by RainDog
 


DANGIT!!!! You beat me to it LOL




posted on May, 27 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


There is a lot of wisdom in these posts. As you've stated, nothing said can be absolute truth but only a partial representation of this absolute truth since "truth" is a concept of ego/mind and ego/mind is intrinsically bound to time and absolute truth is beyond the boundaries of time, therefore beyond the boundaries of ego/mind. A 'great' Guru was once asked after stating something similar to this, "then isn't everything you have told us a lie?" and he replied, "Yes!" with a smile on his face.


The truth cannot be told or conceptually understood, it can only be experienced and then pointed to.
edit on 27-5-2011 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2011 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


I guess, that the origin of questions, is doubt, and the origin of doubt, are lies that are made to seem true.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by rwfresh
 


There is a lot of wisdom in these posts. As you've stated, nothing said can be absolute truth but only a partial representation of this absolute truth since "truth" is a concept of ego/mind and ego/mind is intrinsically bound to time and absolute truth is beyond the boundaries of time, therefore beyond the boundaries of ego/mind.




A 'great' Guru was once asked after stating something similar to this, "then isn't everything you have told us a lie?" and he replied, "Yes!" with a smile on his face.


As true as it gets..



The truth cannot be told or conceptually understood, it can only be experienced and then pointed to.
edit on 27-5-2011 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)


I doubt it's ever been experienced. It's my belief, and i call it a belief.. that the experience is reserved for the end of time. All our drama is rooted in that moment. All story lines, especially those that literally pertain to the attainment and experience of truth would indicate a moment in the future will come when this would end. And all that would be "left" is Truth which is Reality. It cannot be experienced otherwise.. The pursuit of it results in a realization that it is reserved for the future... otherwise no seeking in delusion would be (im)possible because delusion cannot exist in Truth.

To put it simply, if one person experiences Truth, time ends, delusion ends for everyone and everything. Because there is only ONE Truth, One Reality. That moment is what i recognize as the end of time or the what is called the second coming. The experience of global awakening, synchronicity, deja vu is the drama that happens before that moment. No one in delusion can know the moment when Truth will pierce this non-reality, but our collective drama can reflect the potential lead up. It's predetermined.

Our collective drama storyline says there is battle of delusion, evil vs Truth, good before "good" wins. As it becomes apparent that the moment is drawing near (the signs will be literal and obvious although a close to infinite false starts could be experienced personally and collectively) those who are pre-determined to cling to delusion (evil) will batten down the hatches and cling to time and in their delusion believe they can maintain it.

This is drama i subscribe to. Time ends with Truth/Reality/Eternity, which means we have not and cannot as humans/spirits/souls/godspark/god cell (or whatever you can identify within delusion) experience Truth.

All the stories (aliens, ascension, politics, space, time, heaven, hell, awakening) are drama.. but it is ALL drama, and the drama WILL be expressed in some way. Collectively we will express the movement towards the end of time that will be very familiar, more so the closer we get to it. Some will fear it, some will deny it, some will try to stop it (mostly those that are so deluded to think they can).. Some will try to experience it beforehand which is also delusion.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by rwfresh
 


I guess, that the origin of questions, is doubt, and the origin of doubt, are lies that are made to seem true.


Yeah for sure. Seems like the origin of this entire non-Reality is delusion. We might be able to slow down the questioning which may make it more tolerable.. but the answer has never and can never be experienced in time. A person existing in the past or the present has never existed in Reality or Eternity.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


Rw I've picked out a couple of paragraphs knowing that really any might due

There is a beginning and an end of time. This bit of info is the only real nugget of useful information passed on throughout all gnostic/spiritual traditions. But it is overlooked because people (including myself and everyone) are the drama they are absorbed in. 

It's all drama. And the drama is a by-product of delusion. Delusion creates the drama - soul ascension, aliens, universes, dimensions, politics, life, death.. All as "real" as our individual deluded selves. All

The end of time is pre-determined. By you/us as God, apparently outside of delusional time. What i am saying is not unique and has been said before. But what may not be apparent to everyone is that there is nothing novel left in time except the moment precisely before it ends. This is the second coming. The end of time is the root of ALL drama. It's how all drama comes together. It's how in the end (literally) Truth is revealed. The ultimate deja vu. But the moment before time ends is still absolutely nothing in the context of God/Truth/Reality.


So reading your post is delusion. And supposing that I might learn anything from you is delusion. I've got that,,,I think.

Now I am accustomed to perceiving all this drama as you put it as illusion rather than delusion. I suppose I have found this term, illusion, to have less drama to it than the word delusion. And more room to move.

Seeing all this as illusion leaves room for some of G/T/R to either be carried along within it or to see it FOR illusion and deal with it to whatever degree.

In your perception of things is there any, ahh, interface between the real you talk of and the non-real as I think think you suggest and the G/T/R?

Also , you use the term delusional time. I see time as illusion.

That's as far as I can dig into this now as the confusion is also now beginning to spin.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by rwfresh
 


Rw I've picked out a couple of paragraphs knowing that really any might due

There is a beginning and an end of time. This bit of info is the only real nugget of useful information passed on throughout all gnostic/spiritual traditions. But it is overlooked because people (including myself and everyone) are the drama they are absorbed in. 

It's all drama. And the drama is a by-product of delusion. Delusion creates the drama - soul ascension, aliens, universes, dimensions, politics, life, death.. All as "real" as our individual deluded selves. All

The end of time is pre-determined. By you/us as God, apparently outside of delusional time. What i am saying is not unique and has been said before. But what may not be apparent to everyone is that there is nothing novel left in time except the moment precisely before it ends. This is the second coming. The end of time is the root of ALL drama. It's how all drama comes together. It's how in the end (literally) Truth is revealed. The ultimate deja vu. But the moment before time ends is still absolutely nothing in the context of God/Truth/Reality.


So reading your post is delusion. And supposing that I might learn anything from you is delusion. I've got that,,,I think.

Now I am accustomed to perceiving all this drama as you put it as illusion rather than delusion. I suppose I have found this term, illusion, to have less drama to it than the word delusion. And more room to move.

Seeing all this as illusion leaves room for some of G/T/R to either be carried along within it or to see it FOR illusion and deal with it to whatever degree.

In your perception of things is there any, ahh, interface between the real you talk of and the non-real as I think think you suggest and the G/T/R?

Also , you use the term delusional time. I see time as illusion.

That's as far as I can dig into this now as the confusion is also now beginning to spin.


Hi Terry, no doubt i am just saying the same thing over and over ;') And ultimately there is no Truth to be gained from it.. but undoubtedly some could have an experience of revelation through the information. But it is delusional or illusion. No bit of information, practice, belief or experience will get you any closer to Truth. But any of those can give the delusional experience of doing so. You could feel that things you do or think are awakening you or getting you closer to Truth, but i would maintain that it's not True.

Illusion or delusion. I use to subscribe to it being illusion. And you are right, some will find the word delusion more dramatic. Maybe violent or aggressive. But when confronted head on it can be aggressive. Despite what most might say or think, most resist awakening.. aggressively. At the end of time the awakening is not optional :') That's why the physical/mental/spiritual world we live in becomes increasingly hell like as the drama unfolds. Resistance to Truth. We know as delusion that our time is pre-determined. Much of the drama is about denying predetermination (end of time).

Illusion: An illusion is a distortion of the senses, revealing how the brain normally organizes and interprets sensory stimulation.

Delusion: A delusion is a belief that is either mistaken or not substantiated that is held with vehemence.

If it was illusion it would mean that if as individuals we could move beyond our senses we could experience/be Truth. If that was the case then why would anyone do anything but experience/be Truth. Surely Truth/God/Reality is not lacking in any way so would be wholly fulfilling. Both Jesus and Buddha stayed in this non-Reality. I don't think it was by choice. It makes no sense. Unless you realize it's all a predetermined drama. If this is illusion and you were able to overcome it, what would that mean?

In my perception, there is no real interface between time and Reality/God. Except that we know that time is not Reality. We know what we are not and that is painful. To be seemingly separated from the only Real thing. But time has a beginning and an end. Knowing that makes it tolerable. Also knowing that Truth/God/Reality remains entirely whole, perfect, complete regardless of what happens in non-Reality is somehow relieving for me. Any drama that appears to be a genuine interface is just a complex and deep delusion. Not that it can or should be avoided in any way. It's pointless to avoid or deny (ie: seek Truth) any of the drama or delusion. It's all that is going on here. To deny delusion is delusion.

Truth is the only real thing. Individual selves never will and never have existed in Reality. When SHTT is hitting the fan i find it comforting to subscribe to the drama that Truth is the only REAL thing and anything in Time will pass, while God which is Truth and Love is literally eternity. When non-reality passes away, all that is left is Everything we ever wanted. But we as individual selves and all the wanting and delusion will pass away with Time. Nothing will be brought into Eternity from this place. Eternity is complete.

All that said, there are obvious benefits to morality, love as we know it, empathy and caring. There are benefits to stillness and peace. Count your blessing if you have any of these, and count extra blessings if it's your experience that you are responsible for any of these ;')



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


Rw

You sure are dramatic. What dramatists have you read which suggest such thoughts to your mind? Are you stuck in this perspective or are you just trying it on for size?

Asking you questions is my drama and answering or not is yours. Yes? Drama. No? Drama

I suppose it does not matter if drama is drama. No drama, if I understand your thinking, is any better than any other drama. None are closer to the truth. None are closer to that final moment. It all just is what it is and anything any of us do just shuffles us from one cycle to another in this washing machine of drama.

Drama is drama is drama is drama and never the twain shall meet, but if they did it would only be drama.
I'm trying to focus on drama this moment as my drama. And my drama is that it might get me closer to what I seek which used to be Truth but which now is only......drama. Yes?

I suppose that should I attempt to submerge in this perspective, to really try it on for size, I would manage only to move from one drama to another. But wait. Drama is drama is drama. There is no movement in drama, just waiting for the "pop"

Ok rw. I do find a vague sense of release with this. No cause and no effect. No repercussions and no rewards. Just short term dramatic rush.

Shall we dance or just sit and wait?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by rwfresh
 


Rw

You sure are dramatic. What dramatists have you read which suggest such thoughts to your mind? Are you stuck in this perspective or are you just trying it on for size?

Asking you questions is my drama and answering or not is yours. Yes? Drama. No? Drama

I suppose it does not matter if drama is drama. No drama, if I understand your thinking, is any better than any other drama. None are closer to the truth. None are closer to that final moment. It all just is what it is and anything any of us do just shuffles us from one cycle to another in this washing machine of drama.

Drama is drama is drama is drama and never the twain shall meet, but if they did it would only be drama.
I'm trying to focus on drama this moment as my drama. And my drama is that it might get me closer to what I seek which used to be Truth but which now is only......drama. Yes?

I suppose that should I attempt to submerge in this perspective, to really try it on for size, I would manage only to move from one drama to another. But wait. Drama is drama is drama. There is no movement in drama, just waiting for the "pop"

Ok rw. I do find a vague sense of release with this. No cause and no effect. No repercussions and no rewards. Just short term dramatic rush.

Shall we dance or just sit and wait?



Hey Terry, I'm not stuck in it.. It's where I'm at.. Actually maybe i am stuck in it! Stuck in drama and non-Reality anyway. And i appreciate you taking the role of question "asker" so that i can explore the answers. I'm not fooled into pretending to be some kind of individual with novel information that only the elect will hear. That is a delusional drama i find very deceptive. It should be clear that i am not claiming Absolute Truth. Which in my current understanding is not possible and has never been. And whatever Drama you are part of is no better then another unless you have the experience of it being better. This is where morals, cause and effect come into play. All of it drama.. but understanding that doesn't it make it any less engaging or avoidable. And my understanding is that you can't NOT participate in the drama of non-Reality. If it were possible i would assume non-Reality would not exist. Time would cease because the only one thing would be realized. We are all connected in Reality, there is only one thing. If any part meets that, the whole meets that and the parts will cease to exist. I don't know about you but i seek Truth, it's all i want.. and that is the root, the mother of all Drama! The seeking, desire, delusion of Truth is the Drama from which all dramas originate.

"There is no movement in Drama" - It's my belief that there is only apparent movement in Drama. There is NO True stillness. Try and stop the Drama. It is not possible. Unless you can Express God/Truth.. That would stop it. You might be able to experience the Void through practice.. but effort to stay there is movement. Movement is rooted in time. Point A to Point B over a given period. Truth is every point at once, eternally in full expression. movement as we understand it is delusional and only avoidable as Reality/Truth. So here we are moving around consuming, seeking in drama!

semi-eternally yours,

Drama King rwfresh



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 



Hey Terry, I'm not stuck in it.. It's where I'm at.. Actually maybe i am stuck in it! Stuck in drama and non-Reality anyway.


The first time I encountered the concept of memes was in a science fiction novel back in the mid 90's. The author took the concept beyond the simply biological and extrapolated it out to the cosmic. Where memes were not just thoughts passed around from mind to mind but were indeed inter- dimensional entities vying for control of our minds and total world dominance.
They were like from Plato's world of Forms.

Clearly sci/fi, but enough of a concept to alert me to the power we can allow them to have over us. Some memes I think can take hold of us and clamp down our minds like a vice. Some can be relatively harmless while others can be brutal masters and we the unwitting slaves.


And i appreciate you taking the role of question "asker" so that i can explore the answers.


To what better task might a friend aspire. I find such repetition in questioning myself. It is difficult for me to find questions to ask myself that I haven't asked before. This is where the two heads are better than one can really apply.


Which in my current understanding is not possible and has never been.


I remember back in the day. The hippie days. Taking this or that drug and at times having to repeat over and over "it's only a drug, it's only a drug". Now, I find myself repeating " it's only my current understanding, it's only my current understanding. It really helps me not take my thoughts to seriously


And my understanding is that you can't NOT participate in the drama of non-Reality. If it were possible i would assume non-Reality would not exist.


Yes, but then hold up a second here. I am along with the "can't NOT participate part, but then I pull up short.
The idea of non reality being in time and changing to reality in the last instant of time leads me to reality being Omega which I have come to see as synonymous with Alpha.

Alpha being reality and Omega being that very same reality, standing alone, somehow find, through our deluded perceptions, non-reality added into the mix. This delusion, IS . This backs me away from the concept of delusion to a more flexible concept of illusion. one which fits more into an inter-active relationship with A/O than does delusion. But that may just be quibbling over semantics.

I'm coming away from this interchange placing a bit more emphasis on delusion than I have before. Delusion is real I think, just not as dramatic as I am hearing it sound from your perspective. I'm going to take the delusion/illusion ball and let it roll around in my head for a while until it surfaces again and I'll let you know how it looks when that happens.

Likewise, the distinction between reality and non-reality as we have been discussing it takes way to much away from reality for it to have ever been reality in the first place. For me, " non-reality" is not non-reality, rather it is just one aspect OF reality.

So we hang out in the drama, and drama it is, but maybe it is not all that dramatic. Maybe it is comedic. Yeah that's the ticket. It's all comedy. I'll have to write a book about that, call it ah " the Divine Comi.......hold it, some things surfacing from my memory here.......oh never mind.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by rwfresh
 



The first time I encountered the concept of memes was in a science fiction novel back in the mid 90's. The author took the concept beyond the simply biological and extrapolated it out to the cosmic. Where memes were not just thoughts passed around from mind to mind but were indeed inter- dimensional entities vying for control of our minds and total world dominance.
They were like from Plato's world of Forms.


The concept of Meme's is a good parable/analogy for describing the underlying root of individual experience and expression in non-reality. Whether we believe we are controlled by them or united by them is a way of exploring the drama around the idea. But i believe that as an individual it is very difficult to experience something novel, be the origin or pure expression of a particular meme. I believe Jesus as an example, expressed the meme of Truth incarnate in a unique way which is demonstrated by the number of people that express the drama of his expression. The Jesus meme ;') God-man, Reality expressed in non-reality. I also believe that he communicated the limitation of Reality existing in non-reality.. This limitation is not expressed or communicated much.. Because it is directly contradictory to most people's delusion.


Clearly sci/fi, but enough of a concept to alert me to the power we can allow them to have over us. Some memes I think can take hold of us and clamp down our minds like a vice. Some can be relatively harmless while others can be brutal masters and we the unwitting slaves.


For sure.. But even the process of awakening, expressing truth, experiencing freedom and mastery over oneself is a Meme. Perhaps a meta-meme.


To what better task might a friend aspire. I find such repetition in questioning myself. It is difficult for me to find questions to ask myself that I haven't asked before. This is where the two heads are better than one can really apply.


No doubt! "For where two or three have gathered together in My name (Truth/Reality), I am there in their midst."


I remember back in the day. The hippie days. Taking this or that drug and at times having to repeat over and over "it's only a drug, it's only a drug". Now, I find myself repeating " it's only my current understanding, it's only my current understanding. It really helps me not take my thoughts to seriously


Yes for sure. Although i never found myself saying that ("it's only a drug, it's only a drug") while experiencing ultimate communion with Truth. hahaha. Only during a "bad" trip. Nowadays it's apparent the absolute best experience (for me!) is communing with Truth, even though i believe it to be an illusion. When i no longer measure time between experiences of eternity i won't be around to call it illusion or delusion. At the time it's as real as anything. The consequences of keeping it sacred and respecting it while still understanding it as drama makes for consequences i prefer.



Yes, but then hold up a second here. I am along with the "can't NOT participate part, but then I pull up short.
The idea of non reality being in time and changing to reality in the last instant of time leads me to reality being Omega which I have come to see as synonymous with Alpha..


Truth exists in Reality and is eternal. It's the only thing Real in every moment. Nothing changes to reality, because nothing not-real can experience what is real. It won't exist. There may be more insight about the boundaries of time as the end of it becomes apparent. I'm probably not being totally clear. Think of the idea of Ego meditating and pursing Truth. Ego wants to experience Truth. It can't. Truth cannot exist in non-reality. But when time ends, this illusion ends with it. All that is left is all that was ever there, everything, eternity.


Alpha being reality and Omega being that very same reality, standing alone, somehow find, through our deluded perceptions, non-reality added into the mix. This delusion, IS . This backs me away from the concept of delusion to a more flexible concept of illusion. one which fits more into an inter-active relationship with A/O than does delusion. But that may just be quibbling over semantics.


I would never say what you are saying is wrong. I totally get that the word delusion is more offensive.. Probably why i used it. Frustration with the illusion ;') Drama!



I'm coming away from this interchange placing a bit more emphasis on delusion than I have before. Delusion is real I think, just not as dramatic as I am hearing it sound from your perspective. I'm going to take the delusion/illusion ball and let it roll around in my head for a while until it surfaces again and I'll let you know how it looks when that happens.


I love Truth. If you come up with some novel insight let me know!



Likewise, the distinction between reality and non-reality as we have been discussing it takes way to much away from reality for it to have ever been reality in the first place. For me, " non-reality" is not non-reality, rather it is just one aspect OF reality.


Well you've just opened up a can of worms.. Nothing can really exist outside of Reality because it's all there is.. So what the hell is this seemingly non-Reality? That aspect of the connection.. is not something I've been exploring lately.. I've just convinced myself that this separation/non-reality/illusion/delusion cannot exist with Truth being expressed in it... Meaning no one or thing has ever expressed Absolute Truth in Time. And if the past is any indication of the future, it would seem unlikely to happen. Unless time would end.. ;') So says my drama.

Another common drama/meme i explore is the idea of illusion destruction or ego dissolving.. on some level seeking is prompted and operated by the ego. The desire to seek.. Any practice or attempts to experience Truth
are originating from a place that directly contradicts it. That does not mean that God's will is not operating through us (maybe).. but any attempts to remove one's individual self from the equation is illusion. And it does not mean that truth does not get experienced through us.. It's just that as soon as self observes it, it is illusion. Truth observes Truth.

I live a "normal" life.. Two great kids, wife whom i love very much.. decent paying, non-restrictive work.. I've got vices and distractions for sure.. But in my heart, i want Reality/God/Truth. Even if it forcefully dissolves my ego. I don't need free-will to exercise my right to delusion. I don't believe that makes any sense. If we look at human evolution, evolution of Truth expression in non-reality, it seems to me that the only novel experience left (or the most dramatic) would be the entering of Absolute Truth into delusion. Ultimately destroying delusion. Imagine a Jesus or Buddha who awakens everyone whether they want it or not. Undeniable expression of Truth. People have always had the ability to deny and be deluded. Will there be a time, moment when that is not possible? If we are deluded our freedom of choice is a delusion. There is nothing wrong with Truth being obvious and undeniable. In fact it has to be a true characteristic of Truth and Reality and Eternity that is is wholly undeniable. What secret power have we been given that allows us to choose delusion? Or are we literally that delusion. We cannot and shouldn't even bother trying to protect our egos, feelings, beliefs.. it's completely pointless. Except to maintain a desirable cause and effect in non-reality.. Boo hoo we are lowly egos ;') haha.



So we hang out in the drama, and drama it is, but maybe it is not all that dramatic. Maybe it is comedic. Yeah that's the ticket. It's all comedy. I'll have to write a book about that, call it ah " the Divine Comi.......hold it, some things surfacing from my memory here.......oh never mind.


Yes a comedy for sure! At least for us guys who get to spend time discussing reality and delusion in the comfort of our McMansions!! Peace brother!



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