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Supreme Court Backs Arizona Immigration Law That Punishes Businesses

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posted on May, 26 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by manta78
 


I am sick and tired of hearing this BS liberal talking point, about people not being willing to do the jobs they do. This is only the sentiment of lazy desk sitters... Plenty of proud, out of work blue collars will do it, just not for a loss. If it costs more to drive there and eat lunch, than you are making during the course of the day, of course no one will be interested... They don't care about us blue collars out of work, they can hire a crew full of illegals to mow their lawn for 20 bucks cheaper, they are happy about that. Meanwhile the honest bluecollars are sitting home without work. It sucks small businesses are financially punished by greedy people, and businesses who don't follow the law.
edit on Thu, 26 May 2011 17:30:12 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 26 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


I think you are replying to the wrong person. I have not posted any liberal BS.

Please explain. Maybe you are referring to the comment by whaaa here?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
post by whaaa
"Even though I'm not in AZ. I would much rather have an illegal work for me, that would actually work and contribute to my business than some anglo slacker that thinks he is doing me a favor by just hanging around and criticizing all the Mexicans that are actually "WORKING"
This act will doom agriculture in AZ. Truck crops will rot in the field.
I'm not for illegal immigration however. Bring back the "Bracero" program.
www.farmworkers.org...
edit on 26-5-2011 by whaaa because: pt pt pt"











edit on 5/26/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Konah
The rule of law in this country is so #ed up.

The Federal government's duty is to regulate our borders, which it fails to do. As a consequence, a State has to pass legislation that stops businesses from hiring illegals.

Two things:
1. Business shouldn't hire illegal immigrants.
2. It is not the business' responsibility to determine whether an immigrant is here legally or illegally.

Believe me, I am a major proponent of States' rights, but this is kind of a catch-22 and the wrong entity is being punished (first), in my opinion. The Federal government is failing in its duties and bussiness are forced to do it for them, else face charges.


I hear what you are saying. Now all those who are legal have to show their Birth Certificate. Oh the irony.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Konah
The rule of law in this country is so #ed up.

The Federal government's duty is to regulate our borders, which it fails to do. As a consequence, a State has to pass legislation that stops businesses from hiring illegals.

Two things:
1. Business shouldn't hire illegal immigrants.
2. It is not the business' responsibility to determine whether an immigrant is here legally or illegally.

Believe me, I am a major proponent of States' rights, but this is kind of a catch-22 and the wrong entity is being punished (first), in my opinion. The Federal government is failing in its duties and bussiness are forced to do it for them, else face charges.



I agree 100% that businesses shouldn't hire illegal immigrants.

This law was initially passed by the State of Arizona because, in their opinion, the federal government was failing in their responsibilities to enforce immigration law. That law was then challenged, and in a nutshell the Supreme Court said today that Arizona had the right to enforce federal law. If they had not, as Justice Roberts implied it would appear that federal laws had been passsed, but the state could not enforce them, even though state law provided for that enforcement which was acceptable under federal law. He basically indicated that Arizona could do that through suspension or revocation of companies business licenses for violations. It is basically an admission imo that although it may be shifting the burden to the wrong parties (in some people's opinion), that there appears to be, at least for now, no better alternative.(or one that will be effectively or actually enforced under current immigration policies/practices.) I applaud Justice Roberts, and the other four members of the Supreme Court for their diligence, and using common sense in this decision. I have a strong feeling that several other states will be using this precedent to pass similiar legislation in the future.








edit on 5/26/2011 by manta78 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by manta78
 


About TIME!

This right here is what needs to be done. This is exactly what I said in my opposition against the previous Arizona law, there needs to be focus on businesses that hire. They are the ones that give reason to the illegal immigrants coming into this country. You crack down on businesses, you crack down on the push factor behind illegal immigration! There needs to be a strengthening of the border fence. I saw Califronia's border fence with Mexico and it is pathetic. The border needs to be strengthened, businesses that support these illegals need to be targeted.
edit on 26-5-2011 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by manta78
 


Oh yeah, I was basically agreeing with your stance, but in my own words



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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All States should be enforcing such laws, otherwise the illegals will just move on to another State and take the jobs there. There should be no jobs or welfare for illegal immigrnants. As for the jobs that citizens won't do...that is bull! Illegals are in many areas of the workforce and every time ICE deports thousands of illegals, thousands of citizens quickly fill those positions.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Even though I'm not in AZ. I would much rather have an illegal work for me, that would actually work and contribute to my business than some anglo slacker that thinks he is doing me a favor by just hanging around and criticizing all the Mexicans that are actually "WORKING"

This act will doom agriculture in AZ. Truck crops will rot in the field.

I'm not for illegal immigration however. Bring back the "Bracero" program.

www.farmworkers.org...
edit on 26-5-2011 by whaaa because: pt pt pt


There are slackers in every color. I have worked with many illegals and they are no different than anyone else! And those that seemed to work harder were sneaky. Whenever I finished a job early, I would go and help someone who needed it, no matter what their race was. The hispanics would only help each other. You just don't want to pay decent wages. Either that or you are racist and don't like the anglos.
edit on 26-5-2011 by Night Star because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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Here's the real deal. This is a good law for the wrong reasons. I'm in the trenches of this very issue. PM for details and I will explain if needed.

Fact is, people come here for the work no body else wants. I'm not a lib nor am I a racist. But when's the last time you saw a white American handing over a Big Mac, cleaning your hotel room, washing dishes at your favorite dining establishment or on a landscape crew. Whatever. But here's the bad part. Most are not legal, which means they are not on the books - at least not legally. Which means they are not contributing to their health care. Which means they have assumed the identity of someone else and are ruining their lives, credit-wise, because the victims in such cases, albeit of non-violent crimes, are being accosted by the IRS, Credit Bureaus, etc, due to unreported income. So either they are "under the table" (not paying taxes at all) or they are committing identity theft. There's no good outcome here. I've seen it - those caught do very little time and, if deported, come right back.

Here's a solution that, as a conservative, doesn't sit right with me, but I have decided is the only way to get ahead of this. Provide existing non-criminal aliens with a pathway to be authorized for gainful employment. Get them on the books, paying taxes and contributing to their healthcare benefits. It's a huge (20 mill +) untapped tax base and could eliminate bringing little Julio to the emergency room for the sniffles, generating a bill that will never be paid. Hospitals on the border are closing because of bankruptcy for these very reasons.

As soon as they are arrested, they become deportable - end of story.

I applaud AZ for their efforts however their stand can only be symbolic in forcing the federal hand to make drastic changes. ICE is overwhelmed - and those who say there is no enforcement occurring - you don't know your a$$.


edit on 26-5-2011 by capod2t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by capod2t
 


My cousin used to run a landscape business, I would go work with him when I didn't have work. The reason you don't see anything but mexicans/guatamalans(at least in NY), is because people that hire illegals for 50 bucks a day cash drove all the legit businesses that pay insurance, workman's comp and payroll taxes for their employees out of business.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Ya, thanks - one puny pathetic example, completely isolated compared to the overall US Economic work force.

When you are ready to talk about Purdue, Smithfield packing and Hilton, hotels, lemme know. In the meantime, enjoy your bubble. This is macro, not micro. And the issue affects everyone - more than you cousin and you.

Next time come heavy, or don't come at all.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by capod2t
 


I can only speak of what I know about, and I know about the NY and CT bluecollar workforce.... Lots are sitting home while the companies that hire illegals are getting most of the work. Why? Because people would rather save a few bucks, rather than looking out for their fellow american workers. If they were taking desk jobs too, people would really start to get mad. But it only affects those of us that work skilled labor jobs. They are taking a lot of work, that is the bottom line. And it is all work that americans are willing to do, just cannot do as cheap as companies that have no moral compasses.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 





And it is all work that americans are willing to do, just cannot do as cheap as companies that have no moral compasses.


That;s the key, right there. If everyone one is "on the books, contributing to health care benefits, paying taxes, contributing to worker's comp insurance carried by their employer rather than having to "buy" identities off the street, employers are forced to pay minimum wages, competitive wages, and suddenly everything becomes fair again. Perhaps making these positions a little more attractive to "Americans" sitting home out-of-work."

Then again, prices rise as a result of the loss of "cheap labor." Chicken prices go up. Vegetables go up, All service industry prices go up because the corps providing these services pass these expenses on to the consumers.

Again - it's macroeconomics. Expand your thinking and assessments from "what you know" to "what you don't know." This issue is an epidemic and needs big picture solutions beyond 50 lawn accounts in Nassau County.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by capod2t
...and those who say there is no enforcement occurring - you don't know your a$$.


To say there is NO enforcement occurring would be wrong, I agree. But the fact that there IS NOT ENOUGH enforcement occurring is indisputable. Otherwise, we wouldn't have some 25 million + (by some estimates) illegal, hard working, good people in this country already. Love yas, sure...but you're still illegal and got to go. It is not fair to those that waited and did it the right way. Not to mention those of us already here dealing with insane competition for jobs already with a broken system and near non-existent manufacturing jobs sold out to overseas, INCLUDING Mexico itself.

I still curse the day Fender sold out and is making most of those crappy guitars and bases in Mexico. I've had both types, and sorry, but no contest. Give me an American made Strat or Jazz bass anyday. Sounds better, plays better, made better, but yeah- costs more. But Toyotas cost more too now. Sell out to quantity, not quality, and you too can kill a country eventually.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by capod2t
Here's the real deal. This is a good law for the wrong reasons. I'm in the trenches of this very issue. PM for details and I will explain if needed.

Fact is, people come here for the work no body else wants. I'm not a lib nor am I a racist. But when's the last time you saw a white American handing over a Big Mac, cleaning your hotel room, washing dishes at your favorite dining establishment or on a landscape crew. Whatever. But here's the bad part. Most are not legal, which means they are not on the books - at least not legally. Which means they are not contributing to their health care. Which means they have assumed the identity of someone else and are ruining their lives, credit-wise, because the victims in such cases, albeit of non-violent crimes, are being accosted by the IRS, Credit Bureaus, etc, due to unreported income. So either they are "under the table" (not paying taxes at all) or they are committing identity theft. There's no good outcome here. I've seen it - those caught do very little time and, if deported, come right back.

Here's a solution that, as a conservative, doesn't sit right with me, but I have decided is the only way to get ahead of this. Provide existing non-criminal aliens with a pathway to be authorized for gainful employment. Get them on the books, paying taxes and contributing to their healthcare benefits. It's a huge (20 mill +) untapped tax base and could eliminate bringing little Julio to the emergency room for the sniffles, generating a bill that will never be paid. Hospitals on the border are closing because of bankruptcy for these very reasons.

As soon as they are arrested, they become deportable - end of story.

I applaud AZ for their efforts however their stand can only be symbolic in forcing the federal hand to make drastic changes. ICE is overwhelmed - and those who say there is no enforcement occurring - you don't know your a$$.


edit on 26-5-2011 by capod2t because: (no reason given)


You Sir, are misinformed. It is a fact that they are not just here taking the jobs that American citizens won't do. It is a fact that many companies have had to close because they can no longer compete with companies who hire illegals at sub-standard wages. It is a fact that illegals are driving wages down in many areas.

All the jobs you mentioned were done by Americans at one time or another until illegals came to do it for sub-standard wages. Jobs belong to the American citizen before anyone else! Millions of illegals have displaced our citizens in the workforce.

Many of our citizens who are a couple of bucks above the poverty limit are denied help and are falling through the cracks, while an illegal either has a job or is on welfare by deciet and have all their needs met. It is a shame that some of our poor people have to decide between life saving medicines or food. It is a shame that we have so many homeless and suffering citizens. It is a shame that any American citizen get turned away while a foreigner takes a job!



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by capod2t
 


I think you also need to expand your thinking a bit as well. What happens when real hardworking americans are not working? Every american business is hurt. The most loyal people to domestic businesses is the hardworking blue collars.

Rich people, who are not really hurt much by the recession, are mostly into buying foreign "luxury" everything; From cars to appliances. They don't give two craps about american made, they only give a crap about image, and foriegn luxury is in now in their circles. Everything is all messed up....



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


Mind - you are a well respected friend. And you are right, as usual. here;s the problem. This issue has been long neglected - long meaning DECADES. I work the interior for enforcement. My brothers down on the SW border and shot at, overrun, killed. Without that wall, we will never get ahead. Where's the wall? Never gonna be built. Why? North American Union sign ed by executive order by Bush. Now, we're just holding steady. Let me let you in a little inside info. Yuma sector Border Patrol - over 40,000 arrests per month. and those are the ones we are catching. No wall? No security.

Several states, including Texas, Virginia, Florida and NC are 100% Secure Communities. That means every single foreign born person arrested is being screened by ICE. Very few noncriminal aliens are being sought (unless they are "fugitives"). Now, we're taking up the ones already here illegally AND get arrest/convicted of crimes.

Are there enough of us to do the job? F-no! Is the current administration hiring to backfill positions and bring us back to staffing models? F-no!

Don't criticize ICE if you think we aint working. Call your congressman. And, if you are an open-border type, don't criticize ICE for DOING their job - call your congressman and tell them to change the law.

In the meantime - we're doing what we can with the resources available - it's called job security cause we'll never get it done - EVER.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Misinformed? - shadow me in my job one day. Walk in my shoes. You are just one more tube watcher, newspaper reader who is so far removed from reality, all you can do is pass judgment without any credentials.

Keep armchair quarterbacking like the rest and passing judgment. It's the new american way. 12 years of doing what you have no clue about and I am misinformed? Typical...



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


I am blue collar, dumb ass. I'm the guy kicking in doors pulling illegal aliens out of closets and out from under beds to keep you safe on the streets.

Expand my thinking? Here's an expansion - you need to get into the real world before you start postulating on issue way way way out of your league.



posted on May, 26 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by TKDRL
 





And it is all work that americans are willing to do, just cannot do as cheap as companies that have no moral compasses.


That;s the key, right there. If everyone one is "on the books, contributing to health care benefits, paying taxes, contributing to worker's comp insurance carried by their employer rather than having to "buy" identities off the street, employers are forced to pay minimum wages, competitive wages, and suddenly everything becomes fair again. Perhaps making these positions a little more attractive to "Americans" sitting home out-of-work."

Then again, prices rise as a result of the loss of "cheap labor." Chicken prices go up. Vegetables go up, All service industry prices go up because the corps providing these services pass these expenses on to the consumers.

Again - it's macroeconomics. Expand your thinking and assessments from "what you know" to "what you don't know." This issue is an epidemic and needs big picture solutions beyond 50 lawn accounts in Nassau County.


With the economy the way it is, do you really think it wise to grant amnesty for millions of people? We did that already and it didn't work. It only encouraged more illegal immigration, millions more waiting for the next amnesty.That is too many people for the amount of jobs available. That would just encourage more welfare recipiants.

Prices will go up for food and everything else no matter what. It is greed from corporations and nothing more.



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