Secret Societies Through History Have Something in Common

Secret Societies Through History Have Something in Common - Masons., page 1

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Topic started on 25-5-2011 @ 07:35 PM by indigothefish

Think about this.

Since the pharoahs, and possibly before that in sumer, we see the architecture, religion, government and the symbolism of art of the Masons in society. Their presence and existence alone is undeniable in this way throughout our history. They were around in ancient Egypt, Rome, England in the dark ages, the formation of America etc. everywhere in between and up until now also.

I pose the thought that all secret societies are only created for a short period of time by the masons to be used for a purpose and then to be spread as conspiracy. The whole point being that the masons themselves get no blame for whatever this secret society's goal was.

Take the illuminati for example. I am not an expert on them exactly, however my concern is with the masons. The illuminati are said, among theories, to be a secret society sometime around the creation of america and it is said the founding fathers ( or enough of them ) of america indeed were part of this secret society, using it to go unheard in their plans to create a new nation.

We all know that our founding fathers also were largely masonic. The mix here is an example of the fact that they already were masons, already part of a secret society. they already could conspire behind closed doors, the reason for the illuminati's conception was mainly so that when people hear conspiracies of the founding of america it is linked to that group - the illuminati, not the masons.

this is important. i introduce the thought to you, the reader, that the masons are behind most every secret society with an impact on humanity on this planet. and behind all these names, skull and bones, illuminati, golden dawn.. etc. there is always a mason. scratch that - probably more than one, enough to influence the whole order or perhaps even BE the whole order.

If the mason name was behind every conspiracy they had connections to, can you imagine how easy it would be to get even the most dumbed down population suspicious?

just a thought, for the reader

you can look into it if you're interested or think it's valuable

if you want to read into some

watch.pair.com...

robtshepherd.tripod.com...

edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 07:42 PM by fordrew

edit on 25-5-2011 by fordrew because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 07:45 PM by mrlondon

reply to post by indigothefish

The fact that masonism comes from middle age stone masons building cathedrals in Europe renders your argument slightly mute. Much of masonic ritual and practice is invented tradition like the coronation ceremony of the monarchy in Britain. Many Victorian Egyptologists were sent out to try and prove tenuous at best connections between the British royals and the Pharaohs. Blood lines are a joke, in breeding is more like it.

Most masons I have met have tended to be rather boring with a lack of understanding of symbology, it is however a distinctly undemocratic practice to have private clubs containing members of the judiciary, monarchy, statutory and business community holed up sorting a brother out...

reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 07:46 PM by syrinx high priest

and they're also very bad at keeping secrets

reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 08:06 PM by ErgoTheConfusion

If you contemplate the nature of oneness wishing to experience itself from within itself... it requires an other self to "construct" the environment for it to experience itself... and that other self needs the freedom to create.

Free Masonry goes back far far FAR further than Sumer. Regardless of what name we wish to attach to it, it is merely a principle of existence. A principle of transformation.

Namaste.

reply posted on 25-5-2011 @ 08:18 PM by PatriciusCaesar

It is not the mission of Masonry to engage in plots and conspiracies against the civil government. It is not the fanatical propagandist of any creed or theory; nor does it proclaim itself the enemy of kings. It is the apostle of liberty, equality, and fraternity; but it is no more the high-priest of republicanism than of constitutional monarchy. -A.P. (Morals and Dogmas of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry)

Masons are present in every organization because of this belief;

Masonry teaches that all power is delegated for the good, and not for the injury of the People; and that, when it is perverted from the original purpose, the compact is broken, and the right ought to be resumed; that resistance to power usurped is not merely a duty which man owes to himself and to his neighbor, but a duty which he owes to his God, in asserting and maintaining the rank which He gave him in the creation. - A.P. (Morals and Dogmas of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry)

Men are Free.

A Freemason, therefore, should be a man of honor and of conscience, preferring his duty to everything beside, even to his life; independent in his opinions, and of good morals, submissive to the laws, devoted to humanity, to his country, to his family; kind and indulgent to his brethren, friend of all virtuous men, and ready to assist his fellows by all means in his power. - A.P. (Morals and Dogmas of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry)

reply posted on 26-5-2011 @ 07:32 AM by KSigMason

reply to post by indigothefish

Where in ancient Sumeria do you see Masonic symbolism? I've never seen the Square and Compasses used by the ancients as a primary symbol. Plus, all sorts of symbols have been used by various groups and cultures throughout the ages, but none of them had the same intent or meaning. No symbol ever has a singular or exclusive meaning, but rather owe their interpretation to the viewer.

So by your summary, I'm guessing that you believe has existed for thousands of years. Is this an accurate statement?

I have never seen any evidence that any of our Founding Fathers joined the Bavarian Illuminati. Do you have a link to your source of this?

Of our Founding Fathers being Masonic, there were 9-Masons of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 13-Masons of the 13 signers of the Constitution, and 33-Masons of the 74 Generals under George Washington's command during the war. I beg to differ that Masonry is a secret society.

The Bavarian Illuminati wasn't banned for meeting behind closed doors, but rather what they stood for.

I'm curious to the rest of your hypothesis as to whether you have sources or not.

The article from the "tripod" website has some errors in it I'd like to correct. The site shows a "X" with the words "Maltese Cross" below it, but anybody who has seen a Maltese cross would disagree.

The "X" looks more like the St. Andrew's Cross:

reply posted on 26-5-2011 @ 07:34 AM by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by indigothefish
Since the pharoahs, and possibly before that in sumer, we see the architecture, religion, government and the symbolism of art of the Masons in society.

This assumes that all these things are originally and exclusively Masonic. Also, what's the "religion" and "government" of Freemasonry?

They were around in ancient Egypt, Rome, England in the dark ages, the formation of America etc. everywhere in between and up until now also.

Parts of the ritual have Egyptian parallels, and is a descendant of a Roman synthesis and preservation, but there is no extant link between Freemasonry and those eras.

The illuminati are said, among theories, to be a secret society sometime around the creation of america and it is said the founding fathers ( or enough of them ) of america indeed were part of this secret society, using it to go unheard in their plans to create a new nation.

The latter part is false. The Illuminati never spread beyond central Europe, and possibly not beyond Germany.

We all know that our founding fathers also were largely masonic.

False. Only a third of the signers of the Constitution were Masons, and the Declaration of Independence, less than one-fifth.

this is important. i introduce the thought to you, the reader, that the masons are behind most every secret society with an impact on humanity on this planet. and behind all these names, skull and bones, illuminati, golden dawn.. etc. there is always a mason. scratch that - probably more than one, enough to influence the whole order or perhaps even BE the whole order.

Which Mason(s) founded Skull and Bones?

If the mason name was behind every conspiracy they had connections to, can you imagine how easy it would be to get even the most dumbed down population suspicious?

It would have to be true, of course.

reply posted on 27-5-2011 @ 03:30 AM by pepsi78

Originally posted by mrlondon
reply to post by indigothefish

The fact that masonism comes from middle age stone masons building cathedrals in Europe renders your argument slightly mute.

That is long gone, none of the stone masons practiced the occult, free masonry and stone masons are totally apart, gradually it became something else.

edit on 27-5-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 27-5-2011 @ 08:35 AM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by pepsi78
gradually it became something else.

Gradually, yes, but not at first.

none of the stone masons practiced the occult

Sure they did. Just not stuff that you would consider occult today. But back then their knowledge of geometry was certainly occult. From the earliest meaning of the word "occult" in the Oxford English Dictionary...

Not disclosed or divulged, secret; kept secret; communicated only to the initiated.

The methods of the stonemasons to raise perpendiculars, square their work, or lay horizontals was a fiercely protected trade secret, only passed from master to apprentice.

reply posted on 30-5-2011 @ 11:19 AM by ConspiracyNut23

Freemasonry certainly had an important part to play in the formation of many secret societies, but I'm wondering if you undervalue what contribution or influence Rosicrucianism might have had not only on the creation of other secret societies but of Freemasonry itself.

The Illuminati considered the Rosicrucians enemies. They considered Freemasons more like kindred spirits.

reply posted on 2-6-2011 @ 07:56 PM by ErgoTheConfusion

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
The Illuminati considered the Rosicrucians enemies. They considered Freemasons more like kindred spirits.

This seems to me to be akin to high level elected Republicans and Democrats considering themselves enemies.

edit on 2-6-2011 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-6-2011 @ 11:09 PM by renegadeloser

Originally posted by indigothefish
Think about this.

Since the pharoahs, and possibly before that in sumer, we see the architecture, religion, government and the symbolism of art of the Masons in society. Their presence and existence alone is undeniable in this way throughout our history. They were around in ancient Egypt, Rome, England in the dark ages, the formation of America etc. everywhere in between and up until now also.

I pose the thought that all secret societies are only created for a short period of time by the masons to be used for a purpose and then to be spread as conspiracy. The whole point being that the masons themselves get no blame for whatever this secret society's goal was.

Take the illuminati for example. I am not an expert on them exactly, however my concern is with the masons. The illuminati are said, among theories, to be a secret society sometime around the creation of america and it is said the founding fathers ( or enough of them ) of america indeed were part of this secret society, using it to go unheard in their plans to create a new nation.

We all know that our founding fathers also were largely masonic. The mix here is an example of the fact that they already were masons, already part of a secret society. they already could conspire behind closed doors, the reason for the illuminati's conception was mainly so that when people hear conspiracies of the founding of america it is linked to that group - the illuminati, not the masons.

this is important. i introduce the thought to you, the reader, that the masons are behind most every secret society with an impact on humanity on this planet. and behind all these names, skull and bones, illuminati, golden dawn.. etc. there is always a mason. scratch that - probably more than one, enough to influence the whole order or perhaps even BE the whole order.

If the mason name was behind every conspiracy they had connections to, can you imagine how easy it would be to get even the most dumbed down population suspicious?

just a thought, for the reader you can look into it if you're interested or think it's valuable

if you want to read into some

watch.pair.com...

robtshepherd.tripod.com...
edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/25/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

Since it is true that freemasonry branches off into many many other orders. Many of which can only be entered by invitation. Freemasonry provides the perfect pool of influential people, practiced at keeping secret, and sworn to do so for their brothers, from which to draw influential conspirators in any type of conspiracy. This is true whether or not this body has existed in some form or another for very long, or if this was planned or built into freemasonry.

Considering many humans disposition for lieing, cheating, plotting, and working in teams, I find it hard to believe that there are not at least some masons taking advantage of this potential. Nature seems to prove that any form of potential energy, for which the tools exist, are utilized by something. (something meaning some thing, different in every case. Not some mysterious something .

This does not mean that freemasonry is inherently bad. Nor does it mean we should round up all the masons and kill them. It merely means that it has some inherent dangers (as do all things), and that we should be cautious of these dangers.

reply posted on 3-6-2011 @ 07:35 AM by KSigMason

reply to post by renegadeloser

It is true we have invitation orders, but none of our oaths violate laws nor do they entice us to violate laws to cover up crimes committed by someone of our Order.

Freemasonry has in place a penal system to stop law breaking, corruption, misconduct, and breach of oath. Our system of electing our leadership and regulation of power prevents anyone person abusing power bequeathed to them by the voting members. Our system is a representative democracy with several checks and balances, but with all things men can be corrupted. We do try to prevent corruption and when it is found we penalize it.

I would not hope that you want to round us up. I would hope that you know that corruption, nepotism, and secrecy can occur anywhere. I also push that Freemasonry is a private organization as secret societies hide their locations and membership. As you can plainly see, Freemasons are not so secret.

reply posted on 3-6-2011 @ 08:18 AM by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Freemasonry certainly had an important part to play in the formation of many secret societies, but I'm wondering if you undervalue what contribution or influence Rosicrucianism might have had not only on the creation of other secret societies but of Freemasonry itself.

Indeed. More than one historian has pointed out the possibility that modern Freemasonry derives from Rosicrucianism.