Washington State takes the next step towards socialism; Parents now have to get a doctors signature

reply to post by westcoast


just hold out a lil longer

the revolution is coming much
faster than you think

reply to post by westcoast


Plain and Simple . The State of Washington wants to First Poison your Kids with these Vaccinations , then eventlly see them Die . Just Say NO ........

Originally posted by Caji316
I wouldn't have a child of mine nor myself vaccinated under threat of death...I may die for not doing it but it will be a quick death, not a lingering one like with those poisonous Vaccines...This mess has got to stop.....There is no difference in this than what Jim Jones did with the kool-aid....

Really, have you ever seen a kid die of pertussis? Rubella? Mumps? menengiococcemia?

Seeing the kid in the ED and watching the petechie spread knowing there not alot you can do about it. Watching those kids go off to the OR having limb after limb cut off in a desperate attempt to save a little ones life. Watching parents try to make deals with God, or anybody or anything to save their child. Watching those same parents when the life leaved their child and they are left with nothing but memories and what could have been.

If you have you would not be making such an ignorant statement.

I have seen the effects of all of those and those children go through unspeakable horror for a long time. Quite a few were at the hands of "fashionable" and perhaps well meaning parents who took thier medical advice from a former playboy centerfold or others.

If you want to put your kids at risk, so be it. You should at the very least show you have some some understanding of what could happen.

You also should agree to pay for any all treatment that you or your child requires if they get a preventable disease and are un-vaccinated.No insurance but out of pocket. Put your money where your mouth is.

reply to post by syrinx high priest


If you choose to have surgery, just like if you choose to receive a vaccine, you sign a waver stating that you are aware of the risks.

This is about FORCING me as a parent to schedule an appointment with a physician for me and my child, which I have to then PAY for, to be counseled on how I am making the wrong decsion, and then have that doctor sign the waiver, stating that I have been informed. I have a sneaking suspicion that most insurance companies are NOT going to pay for this 'consult'.

This is about bullying parents into doing something and paying for a service that they should not have to pay for!

It's called psychological coercion and it is very successful. When using fear (swine flu campaign) didn't work, they are now resorting to passing laws.

Thank you for this thread.
The next time I go to the doctor, i'll make sure this gets brought up. She's 3 and everyone wants her vaccinated, yet she can't because she's allergic to eggs and her immune system is messed up and it isn't wise to give her any vaccines. Even when I tell school officials and other doctors this (she's gone to alot of different specialty doctors) they treat me like I released the plague.
Unfortunately people are programmed to believe vaccines are a miracle cure for all diseases. I think the only way this will change is if more people have their children harmed by vaccines.

My impression is governor Gregoire only looks out for herself, so i'm not surprised she would pass this bill.

reply to post by FredT


My kids have had all the major vaccines.....although if I were to do it again, I would go about it completely differently. I would demand the MMR be broken down into individual doses and done at a later age. They push multiple vaccinations at one visit way too young.

To see a child die for any reason, from anything is a terrible thing. To see it from something preventable even harder. People need to understand thought that just becuase you got the shot doesn't mean you are protected. A large percentage of cases of 'preventable' diseases are in people that WERE vaccinated.

The list of 'preventable' diseases keeps growing....as do the adverse reactions. I am sure that anyone who saw a child die from receiving a vaccine would feel just as strongly as you do. My own child almost died in my arms because of it.

Originally posted by westcoast
reply to post by syrinx high priest

 

If you choose to have surgery, just like if you choose to receive a vaccine, you sign a waver stating that you are aware of the risks.

This is about FORCING me as a parent to schedule an appointment with a physician for me and my child, which I have to then PAY for, to be counseled on how I am making the wrong decsion, and then have that doctor sign the waiver, stating that I have been informed. I have a sneaking suspicion that most insurance companies are NOT going to pay for this 'consult'.

This is about bullying parents into doing something and paying for a service that they should not have to pay for!

It's called psychological coercion and it is very successful. When using fear (swine flu campaign) didn't work, they are now resorting to passing laws.

why wouldn't an insurance company pay for it ? I worked for bluecross for a few years. there are a lot of different plans out there, but an insurance company won't deny this, especially if there is a law behind it. I'd say that it is almost 100% going to be a mandated benefit for your state.

it may not be in network, there may be a deductible, but the only reason it would get denied is if it is a heavy gate keeper plan (very 90's) and you don't get a referral.

this is 100% about liability. your beef is with the defensive position physicians are forced into by the bloodsucking lawyers.



god bless capitalism

Originally posted by stumason
nd if everyone who is so scared of "socialists" thought this way, which by all accounts is alot, then vaccine uptake would be low, meaning the disease would still spread easily.

On the plus side, if it only infects the right-wing bible thumpers, who really only hate Obama because he is black and are so hell bent on being scared of something, then that's a good thing.

Evolution in action, oh the irony...

Don't be so willfully ignorant. I agree with you rmajor point. This is not an instance of "socialism." Big government? Maybe. Statism? OK, but socialism has nothing to do with vaccinations.

Where I take issue with you is your subsequent name calling of conservatives and ESPECIALLY the notion that people against Obama's policies do so BECAUSE he is Black.

That, sir, is just plain stupid.

Originally posted by westcoast
You want a personal account? Okay, my son almost died when he was 1 1/2 years old because of his MMR vaccine. Want proof? Sorry, don't have it. So I supose that makes it an invalid account in your eyes?

If true, I am sorry to hear that, I wish no harm on anyone. However, it remains anecdotal evidence at best. I asked you to provide statistical proof that vaccination is any more dangerous than any other medical treatment.

Originally posted by westcoast
herein lies the problem. Adverse reactions happen on a daily basis, but go unreported.

No, they don't. At least, in the UK they don't. During the height of the Swine Flu scare, some cases of reactions made it on the News, however, given then the amount of vaccinations taking place, it is a statistical certainty someone will have a reaction. Give 500,000 people paracetomol and see what the rate of adverse reaction is.

Originally posted by westcoast
I am not about to spend the next untold hours going through mountains of information to try and convince you. It is all there at your fingertips....YOU have to take the time to educate yourself. Don't want to? Go back and look at some of the excellent threads right here on ATS that outline numerous personal accounts, studies and terrifying reports.

Actually, you're the one making the claims, so you're the one who needs to back them up. I am aware of those threads and I have been active in many. I have said much the same thing in them as I do now, where is the proof vaccination is harmful? In fact, if it wasn't for vaccinations, many of us wouldn't be here today.

Originally posted by westcoast
(Just because you haven't been struck by lightening doesn't mean it doesn't happen)

Indeed, but that is also not to say that that because someone has been struck by lightning that it will happen to you. Works both ways.

Originally posted by westcoast
My point, is that I shouldn be FORCED to go to a physician and have him sign a waiver for something that is MY right to decide.

But what right do you have to send someone to a school who has not been vaccinated against deadly diseases, potentially exposing others? At least by getting the waiver, you've demonstrated that you're aware of the risks and have accepted responsibility.

Originally posted by westcoast
ANOTHER one of my rights was just signed away by someone who stands to profit from it. The majority of parents out there are not near as outspoken as myself and haven't taken the time to actually look into this issue. When faced with a doctor telling them it is what they should do, most will do it. The pharmaceutical companies know this.

That is a problem when you have a health system dominated by people out to make money, not make people better. That said, I would trust the opinion of a qualified Doctor over anyone else hear-say and anecdotal accounts.

Originally posted by westcoast
Washington State (until now) has the highest exemption rate in the nation at 6%, this is why we are being targeted. Look for that number to go WAAAAAAYYYY down this next year, and the profits to go UP!

Why though? Is it really that difficult to go to your GP and say "I want a waiver"? Is it that hard? It sounds really simple to me.

Doctor: Shall I immunise your child?

You: No thanks..

Doctor: >explains risks and benefits<

You: Thanks, but no thanks.

Doctor: I'll give you a waiver showing you understand the risks then.

Simples. What's the problem? Unless they're going to make it so it's hard to get a waiver, I really fail to see what the problem is. You still have a choice, you just need to demonstrate you understand your choice and the risks it poses to you, your kids and others.

Originally posted by FredT
Really, have you ever seen a kid die of pertussis? Rubella? Mumps? menengiococcemia?

Seeing the kid in the ED and watching the petechie spread knowing there not alot you can do about it. Watching those kids go off to the OR having limb after limb cut off in a desperate attempt to save a little ones life. Watching parents try to make deals with God, or anybody or anything to save their child. Watching those same parents when the life leaved their child and they are left with nothing but memories and what could have been.

Fred, u can sensationalize it all u want.

We could also say the same thing about
a cellar under a house in tornado alley.

Have you ever watched as a 2 yr old is sucked
out a car window by a tornado, never to be seen
again. Let's blame the parents for not having
a cellar.

It's still the parent's choice til the child
is old enough to make that decision
on his/her own. Forcing that state decision
on ALL parents is nothing more than
a state sponsored assault on parenthood.

No thanks.

Washington State takes the next step towards socialism;

Well said Headline, thus why I dislike the state. They are into ALL of your business.

& the Feds stepping in for certain issues aren't making it any better.

reply to post by boondock-saint


I wish it was sensationalism but its not.

Please show me where IT forces those sadly deluded parents to vaccinate their children? I read this

The signature verifies that the provider gave the parent or guardian information about the risks and benefits of immunization. A parent or guardian can also turn in a signed letter from a health care provider stating the same information.

Seems to me its simply making sure that that parent(s) understand their decision. If they feel they are in the right then put the ink on the paper and don't vaccinate.

Public safety nobody wants to send there kids to school so they can get measles and whooping cough from your kids. Dont like it then home school your kids, but if you want to send them to public schools with other kids they need vaccinated.

reply to post by lokdog


I think you are confused. Vaccination does not prevent the spreading of germs.... Simple things like teaching your children to wash their hands after using the bathroom and before eating does that.

reply to post by westcoast


"What is happening to our country? What is happening to our civil rights? Where is this going to END? "

It's going down the tubes.
They're being eviscerated.
Fascism/Tyranny/Big Brother/Sister

Kinda obvious when you step back and look at the big picture, eh?

My biggest problem with this is that if the State requires a letter from a
health care professional then the State needs to pay for the office visit.

Health care professionals do not even sneeze without charging a fee and
the state has no legal right to force you into paying an unwarranted bill.

STOP TAXING ME TO DEATH YOU BASTARDS !!!

In a time of economic crisis when most parents are struggling to keep their heads above water, most parents will see this as an A or B choice... A, pay the 15 or #20 for the vaccine, or B, pay $100+ for a doctor visit. Not everyone has insurance, even though I thought Obama was supposed to give everyone insurance last year... Or was that "affordable" insurance? Whatever, I still dont have it. I can't be the only one.

Anyone who has ever had a child knows that the doctors start in on you before they are even born. Every freakin time you even get near a doctors office for another 'wellness' visit, they are craming the vaccinations down your throat. Giving you flyers telling you all the horrible ways your baby is going to die if you don't vaccinate and essentially making you feel like a horrible parent if you even CONSIDER not doing it all exactly as THEY have planned.

To state that this whole legislature is about making sure parents are aware of the risks about NOT getting the vaccines is a JOKE. Every time I turned around, they were jabbing my babies with three, four, five more shots. I would get LECTURES from first the nurse and then the doctor if I even hinted at even delaying them.

You think those doctors or nurses even have a clue as to what is really in those vaccines? What kind they are, what adjuvuncts they have and what the risks of the vaccine itself is? I can tell you from personal experience that the majority of them do NOT. They are going to give you the little flyer from either the CDC or your State health department aimed at making you feel like you HAVE to do it or you are an unfit parent. Start asking questions and you will get either a blank look, or attitude.

This is NOT about educating, it is about bullying and knowing that yes, 99% of those forced to go to a doctor and tell them you are not having your child get a vaccine and then get grilled and pay for the visit....they are just going to get the vaccine. The pharmaceuticals will get their money, the pharmacies or doctor offices will get their kick-backs and the politicians will get their endorsements. Everyone is happy....well, except for the parent who has to deal with death or injury to their child.

reply to post by ISeeTheFnords


So it would seem that this worry about "Socialism" is actually founded in an inherent problem with your "capitalist" Health care system? The irony..

What's even more ironic is that the solution you propose is "socialist", in so far as you want the state to pay for the visit to the doctor?

Maybe if you didn't get charged a fortune and have to mortage your soul in order to stay healthy, this wouldn't actually be an issue? Ooh, did I just suggest a "socialist" policy?

Personally, I find it abhorrent that in one of the worlds most developed countries, you face bankruptcy if you get ill. What's even more disgusting is that people will defend this system to the hilt, because anything else is "socialism", so essential political ideology comes before the health and well being of you and your countrymen...

reply to post by stumason


Oh, I completely agree with you. Our government right now is very screwed up. Giving them even more power and authority about what we can and can not to do with our bodies is NOT the answer.

If there were an actuall outbreak of a deadly pandemic, such as the black plague than I obviously would chose to vaccinate (if one were available). I am sorry though, I do NOT think Hepititis A, Chicken pox, and several others fit this bill. These are OPTIONAL and should remain as such. I should NOT be forced to have a doctor sign a waiver for me, because big brother doesn't trust my judgement.