Beliefs in UFOs no different from religious beliefs

reply to post by Fastriver


The thing with me is , I see the UFO and alien concepts, as occupying utterly differnet segments of my mind. The reason for this is simple. For my belief in Jesus, I require no proof, and I would never ask for any from the hand of God, or by the toil of man. I am happy, where my faith is concerned, to await the end of the world, or my death, in anticipation of the day when I can don the wargear of the saved, and slay deamons at the right hand of God, no matter how unreal some may feel that scenario might be.

However, where my thinking on UFO is concerned, I have no room for simple belief, blind and unreasoning. I cannot abide people referencing faith as a legitimate back up to thier thinking on UFO and aliens. Simply speaking, my understanding of the subject of UFO ,leads me to the conclusion that there is SOMETHING, as yet not adequately understood, happening in our skies. My love of science however, prevents me from making spurious assumptions about things for which evidence would be far more effective.

The other problem I have with attempting to label UFO belief as the same as religious belief, is that where UFO are concerned, there are several explanations for any given incident, and within the field , there are those who consider the possibility that UFO are government experimental aircraft, alien vessels, spirits, metaphysical constructs reflective of the human psyche.... the list goes on. There are also those who merely believe, as I do, that the subject is worth investigating, and each individual case ought to be examined on its own merits, as if it were the only case in the world, without bias or prejudice.

If you simplify the question of belief into a basic , solid question like this....

Do UFO (regardless of what you believe them to be) exist? ...

... then you are left with a far more simple response, which can leave belief and faith at the door before the answer comes out. UFO are UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS! It is not acceptable to use the three letter term for something more, like an interstellar flying machine, or a drone or any other damned thing.

With that in mind, it is not a matter of faith. I KNOW that various people from airline and military pilots, to law enforcement officers, to teachers, vicars and stock market traders have seen UFO , from various veiwpoints. Even taking away the number of CGI hoaxes and blatant fakes of other types, there are still questions to be answered, still cases for which there is no proven explanation.

On the matter of aliens, as related (barely) to UFO, again, there is no need for faith to believe that there is intelligence life in the universe, other than ourselves. Mathematicaly speaking it is so improbable as to wander into impossibility to think that in all the space the universe consists of, there is only one race capable of self determination and intellectual thinking. Deciding wether any of those alien lifeforms have ever approached our planet, or interacted with our people, should be a work of investigation, NOT a matter of zealotry.

The difference between blind faith, and my attitude to UFO and aliens, is EVIDENCE. I require no evidence for my beliefs, but I have an enormous desire for evidence either way where the UFO phenomenon is concerned.

my belief is this
there is more proof of ufo's than there is of god
and 'god' is actually an alien..

As both an atheist and a UFO skeptic, I do not think believing in UFOs and believing in religion are one-in-the-same. One is based solely on faith, while the other is based on a certain degree of evidence (even if I find that evidence to be sorely lacking for both personal taste and scientific standard).

Originally posted by ChildoftheAnnunaki
People believe in UFOs because of credible witness statements, photos and video evidence.....

People believe in Religion because of an old book.


Don't be retarded..

edit on 25-5-2011 by ChildoftheAnnunaki because: (no reason given)

I agree with you. There is physical evidence. Steven Hawking also said Heaven is a fairy tale. I think SH is bitter over being born into a bad body.

Re Your use of the word retard. I just saw an ad on Tv for this organization today and I promised myself I would do my part and here you have presented me with my first opportunity. Thank You!

www.r-word.org...

Personally, any kind of "truthfull" ET evidence that I observe, like: Witnessing an ET Starcraft, [ which I was very fortunate in witnessing one myself,"] actual pictures of an alien entity,[ because the bible says "you can't see god,"] petroglyph's carved by an actual alien entity, UFO landing spot's [ not the ones that look faked,] and the history of actual ET evidence over the years. I consider all of this evidence, has given me and some other people: A divine and religious experience.


Foofighter's forever.

Erno86

Flyings disk planes were reported all over Germany and that is why Hitler or his
men in charge of Tesla technology had so many disk plane projects to confuse the issue.
Glowing orbs like the foo are still seen today and put up on youtube of amusement.
That does not sound like religious beliefs are involved at all.
Just a sidetrack by cartel owners of the Tesla ship.

Originally posted by nanochicken

Originally posted by Dastardly666
reply to post by Fastriver

 

There is a HUGE difference between believing in UFOs and religion.

People who believe in UFOs will not kill you for UFOs.

edit on 25-5-2011 by Dastardly666 because: (no reason given)

Well, now hold on - that implies there are no extremists in UFOlogy and I'm not ready to make that statement. Every belief set has extremists and just because we haven't heard of anyone killing because their beliefs in UFOs wasn't taken seriously doesn't mean it hasn't or will never happen.

I think the point I was trying to make was that there have been wars and millions of deaths in the name of religion, and this includes most religions including the big three.

There are two sides to ufology, the believers and the skeptics. I think its pretty safe to say there will be no wars or mass deaths between or involving believers and skeptics. I have never seen people involved in ufology calling for violence. There is only debate.

Religion should not be compared to ufology.

Originally posted by Dastardly666
Religion should not be compared to ufology.

While a simple belief in UFOs is not comparable to religion, that isn't to say there are not those who do treat the belief in UFOs as a religious faith, such as the Disclosure movement, for instance.

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by Dastardly666
Religion should not be compared to ufology.

While a simple belief in UFOs is not comparable to religion, that isn't to say there are not those who do treat the belief in UFOs as a religious faith, such as the Disclosure movement, for instance.

I disagree that people who want disclosure are treating their belief in UFOs as a religious faith. If a poll was conducted about disclosure with regards aliens and UFOs, I would say there would be 95%-100% who would want disclosure, including people who have very little to do with the subject. The people who are constantly pressing for disclosure are people who believe the witnesses and do not trust governments and government bodies and rightly so.

I have to agree with the basic premise of the OP. For those that say there is evidence for UFOs that isn't present in the Judaic religions I can't agree.

There are reports, artifacts (debatable whether UFO or religious) and even medical reports confirmative of miracles. So the "evidence" for either is present, endlessly debatable, and pretty much of the same kind.

35 years of UFO reading/research and two personal experiences finally led me to the personal conclusion that the Interdimensional Hypothesis fit the "evidence" much more handily than the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis did.

That in turn led me to reconsider the very book I had defamed for years: The Holy Bible.

From NWO to UFOs to Climate Change to Man's Inhumanity to Man; the bible covers all of these in a way that seems supernaturally prescient to me.

What is the first to mention an eventual NWO/Global Monetary System? The same book that predicted--against ALL odds--that Israel would someday become a nation again. There's much, much, much more, but those two things alone, I feel, are enough to give the bible another look. S&F.

Originally posted by Dastardly666
I disagree that people who want disclosure are treating their belief in UFOs as a religious faith. If a poll was conducted about disclosure with regards aliens and UFOs, I would say there would be 95%-100% who would want disclosure, including people who have very little to do with the subject. The people who are constantly pressing for disclosure are people who believe the witnesses and do not trust governments and government bodies and rightly so.

There is a difference between simply wanting the truth about UFOs (insofar as some people see "the truth") and the Disclosure/Exo-Politics movement. The latter does have religious overtones; they all-but-worship an omnipotent entity (the aliens), have an evil adversary who is preventing us from knowing the glory of these beings (the US government) and promise an apocalypse (Disclosure) wherein the truth will be revealed, the adversaries will be punished and a utopia will be manifest on Earth. The Disclosure movement even has Harold Camping-style high-priests who repeatedly make predictions of "imminent disclosure" that fail to come true.

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by Dastardly666
I disagree that people who want disclosure are treating their belief in UFOs as a religious faith. If a poll was conducted about disclosure with regards aliens and UFOs, I would say there would be 95%-100% who would want disclosure, including people who have very little to do with the subject. The people who are constantly pressing for disclosure are people who believe the witnesses and do not trust governments and government bodies and rightly so.

There is a difference between simply wanting the truth about UFOs (insofar as some people see "the truth") and the Disclosure/Exo-Politics movement. The latter does have religious overtones; they all-but-worship an omnipotent entity (the aliens), have an evil adversary who is preventing us from knowing the glory of these beings (the US government) and promise an apocalypse (Disclosure) wherein the truth will be revealed, the adversaries will be punished and a utopia will be manifest on Earth.

I don't think it has anything to do with believing in or worshipping aliens. People who want disclosure simply do not trust governments because of their actions and cover-ups involving aliens and UFOs. And I don't think it has anything to do punishing governments and aliens giving us utopia. There always has been and always will be interest in life outside our planet. Even simple life on a nearby planet would be huge. The masses want truth and believe they deserve the truth from the people who are voted in by the masses.

Originally posted by Dastardly666
I don't think it has anything to do with believing in or worshipping aliens.

You still misunderstand the difference between wanting "the truth" about UFOs and the Disclosure/Exo-Politics movement; I am making a very important distinction.

Originally posted by Dastardly666 And I don't think it has anything to do punishing governments and aliens giving us utopia.

Then you have not listened to the words of the Disclosure/Exo-Politics movement; one of the tenets is that after Disclosure those who have kept the secret, the powers-that-be, or whatever group each individual members hates, will be punished for the state of the world, and that Disclosure will save us, every worldly ill will be solved by the omnipotent aliens. It is an eschatological faith, aside from window dressing little different than other apocalyptic beliefs.

Religions are codified systems of behaviour and a set of rules that people are meant to live by, based on purely conjectural and wholly unprovable concepts that are 100% anthropomorphic in nature That is, virtually all religions have the human race as the focal point and somehow special.

Suspecting UFOs exist, is almost diametrically opposite in its' conceptual nature.

Originally posted by Fastriver
Stephen Hawking, theoretical scientist and one of the most brilliant minds of our time, states that in this wide universe there ought to be civilizations somewhere else besides our earth.

However, at the same time Stephen Hawking also states that no aliens have ever come or will ever come to visit earth in UFOs.

(What Stephen Hawking was referring to was UFOs as physical alien spacecraft piloted or maneuvered by physical alien beings).

The late Carl Sagan, who was also one of the most brilliant minds of our time, basically said the same thing.

If I were given a chance to choose between Stephen Hawking and "ufologists", I would definitely go with Stephen Hawking.

Stephen Hawking also said something along the lines of, "why are UFOs only seen by cranks and weirdos?". That seems to indicate that he is completely unfamiliar with the basic facts regarding UFOs and the people who report them.

Carl Sagan said something like, "there is not a single verified, checked-out case that could not be explained." Again, either ignorant or intentionally misleading.

These two guys are titans in their respective fields. That doesn't mean we should accept everything they say as truth, especially when they have obviously not done their homework on a particular subject.

Personally, I would listen to James McDonald or Ray Fowler on the topic of UFOs before Hawking or Sagan.

Originally posted by FireMoon
Religions are codified systems of behaviour and a set of rules that people are meant to live by, based on purely conjectural and wholly unprovable concepts that are 100% anthropomorphic in nature That is, virtually all religions have the human race as the focal point and somehow special.

Suspecting UFOs exist, is almost diametrically opposite in its' conceptual nature.

In some aspects, in particular the Disclosure/Exo-Politics movement, does hold the human race as a focal point and special; after all, the aliens are coming here for us.

reply to post by Fastriver


I don't agree with that , in religion you just have to believe without any first hand experience and you have to believe that someone who claimed to be contacted by God 1000's yrs , concerning ufo phenomenen, ufo sightings can be documented, i have seen ufos so i have a reason to researsh the phenomenen , i can't say that about religion , some people who had ETs related experiences can be contacted and can answer questions therfor one can make judgement about them, can we say the same thing about prophets ?

reply to post by Fastriver


Your argument is wanting. Religious beliefs are (so I will argue for the moment) are entirely the work of man over man. That covers all religions that envision a God of some sort being out there in charge of all. There is not one shred of proof for any of that...just beliefs, doctrines, books and people talking from behind pulpits and alters.

Belief in UFOs in the highest definitiion of the word would be, for example, that I've had an experience that left no doubt in common human reasoning that what I witnessed was anything but an alien craft. You can counter and say, but most "believers" have never seen a UFO, they only pickup that position from media or personal contacts with others (both believers and actual witnesses). Aha, yes! exactly as religious beliefs propagate but hugely different. Yet....

Your argument hinges on not acknowledging that Science more and more every day allows the prospect of ETs and thus UFOs. More than likely that blinded position is easy to embrace if the person is religious and has some strong fundalmentalist beliefs that need to stay strong by denying the growing evidence to the contrary.

The scientific evidence for ET out there (in the domain of God) and of scientific UFOs visiting here is overwhelming. But that "knowing" is denied if you have a stronger belief in something else. Those factors blocking normal reasoning are ignorance, stupidity, scientific professional jealosy and religious beliefs that won't allow such thnking, and governmental actions that deem it better to not recognize such data that undermines the status quo. In other words, no, the two are not alike. One is reality, one is superstituion.

(Be aware, the Vatican has acknowledged that ETs exist out there, and it have talked openly about UFOs. The day is coming that those that follow the dictates of the Church will find themselves accepting a new dogma or left to find their own way. The Church has seen that it has no choice in the matter. It is join with Science and the new reality, or fade away.)

Originally posted by Fastriver
Beliefs in "UFOs" as physical extraterrestrial spacecraft are no different from "religious beliefs".
It seems to me that they are primarily based on faith.

Religious beliefs are an intrinsic nature of human beings.
So there is nothing wrong or unusual about religious beliefs per se.

I am fascinated with a segment of the population's "beliefs in UFOs as physical extraterrestrial spacecraft" and "beliefs in physical extraterrestrial aliens that pilot or maneuver those UFOs".

People ask me: "so, what do you actually believe in?"
My answer to them is: "I believe that some people believe that we are being visited by physical extraterrestrial aliens in physical UFOs".

Then they ask me: "don't you believe that we are being visited by physical extraterrestrial aliens in physical UFOs?"

In that case, my favorite answers are:

1) The truth is out there!!.........(somewhere)

and

2) I want to believe!!........ (not "I believe")

(These are two great slogans from the X-files!!) (LOL!!)

Stephen Hawking, theoretical scientist and one of the most brilliant minds of our time, states that in this wide universe there ought to be civilizations somewhere else besides our earth.

However, at the same time Stephen Hawking also states that no aliens have ever come or will ever come to visit earth in UFOs.

(What Stephen Hawking was referring to was UFOs as physical alien spacecraft piloted or maneuvered by physical alien beings).

The late Carl Sagan, who was also one of the most brilliant minds of our time, basically said the same thing.

If I were given a chance to choose between Stephen Hawking and "ufologists", I would definitely go with Stephen Hawking.

Two of the greatest "ufologists" of all time (in my opinion), Dr. Jacques Vallee and the late John A. Keel, had long given up on the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ET hypothesis) of the origins of UFOs, which continues to dominate this entire UFO field.
(Are we slowly being "conditioned" to accept the ET hypothesis?)

Vallee and Keel basically came with a conclusion that this whole phenomenon goes beyond the physical and that it may be impossible to study it through the so-called "scientific" or "empirical" method.

In other words, we may be confronting a phenomenon no different than some form of religious manifestations.

So, back to square one: beliefs in "UFOs" are no different from "religious beliefs".

Yawn, can you prove it? I don't see any scientific data other than you evoking the names of other's and expecting that to carry the water for you.

Stephen Hawking is an intelligent person, but he is just a person and people are inherently faulty. And the fact that his claim to fame is pop science books and highly theoretical ideas about black-holes, doesn't give him much credibility.Carl Sagan, he had a show on TV once, played the role of teacher for a bit and was the atheist's number one skeptic(aka a critic who never contributed anything really that a grad student couldn't of done).

So your entire argument is basically a "Because I said so" type argument without any supporting evidence at all.

I started a thread recently about the same topic, and I really like the comments about, "I don't need evidence for my faith." Very true!!!