North Korea Missiles Said To Threaten U.S

You think crazy Kim would hesitate to hit south Korea with nukes or try to hit the US? No he wont North Korea has the same attitude as Iran, which is I don't care what you say I am going to keep doing what I want. Kim has been lucky so far that B-2 haven't been drooping bombs over his head.

Kim is not crazy, he is very clear what he is doing. NK is deperately want to back to international society, and US is the main obstacle.

Some people here one way laughing NK is poor, the other way don't allow NK doing normal trade with other countries, this is not so fair.

Kim once talked with US deputy and he asked what's use he attack America for ? Talking about nuke program and missile, Kim said if he does not do so, America will just ignore him. I think US government know this very well that Kim is using nuke and missile as chip trying to bargain with US.

But one thing more need to worry is poor NK desperately want $$$ and they will sell their technology in international market, this is they are actually doing. They can make rough 100million$ a year by selling missile tech and parts. Pakistan's middle-range missile is NK's tech.

I worry that NK is selling Nuke tech to all the wrong people. The last thing we need is terrorists with ballistics.

Originally posted by bzap
I worry that NK is selling Nuke tech to all the wrong people. The last thing we need is terrorists with ballistics.

NK main product is missile, not nuke. NK itself just has limited access to nuke, and their tech is not mature, so I doubt they have anything to sell. Also I did not see US ever blamed NK to sell nuke tech.

But US true blamed NK selling missile tech. NK asked if US can compensate the economic loss, then NK will stop selling, but US turned down the idea.

Originally posted by xbin
But US true blamed NK selling missile tech. NK asked if US can compensate the economic loss, then NK will stop selling, but US turned down the idea.

xbin you are dead wrong and what you are saying is not true. The US as recently as Jun 23 offered N. Korea Aid and economic support also a guarantee that the US would not attack them. The US would give this to N. Korea if Kim closed his nuke program. What does Kim say... he says NO! Now how can you blame the US when we offered them everything they wanted and the refused?

Originally posted by xbin
Kim is not crazy, he is very clear what he is doing. NK is deperately want to back to international society, and US is the main obstacle.

This is also not true The US in the offer I made above told Kim like Libya by giving up its nuclear program it restored ties to the US and is receiving economical help Kim again said No!

Here are some quotes from various Newspapers and their links.

Original source NY Times Date June 23
The United States today presented North Korea with a proposal for phasing out its nuclear program in exchange for aid and security guarantees, as senior Bush administration officials acknowledged softening their hard-line stance to jump-start negotiations with Pyongyang.

American officials said North Korea rebuffed an invitation to hold a private meeting on the side of the six-party talks to discuss the proposal in more detail today. The North Korean delegation, which put forward its own plan at the talks, had no immediate reaction to the American offer.

Under the American plan, North Korea would have to fully disclose its nuclear program, submit to inspections and pledge to begin eliminating the program after a "preparatory period" of three months.

In exchange, the reclusive regime of Kim Jong-Il, the North Korean leader, would receive shipments of heavy fuel oil to meet its energy needs, be granted a "provisional security guarantee" by the United States, and see the lifting of some sanctions.

NY Times

Original source CNN Date June 23
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- The United States has proposed that North Korea end its nuclear program and allow international monitors to return in exchange for energy aid and a provisional U.S. security guarantee, senior American officials said Wednesday.

The offer appeared to be an effort to break a long-standing deadlock over North Korea's nuclear program at six-nation talks in Beijing.

Under the plan, U.S. officials said, North Korea would provide a full declaration of its nuclear activities and stop all of them; secure any fissile material that could be used to produce a nuclear bomb; disable any dangerous materials, and allow inspectors to return.
In exchange, the other countries in the talks -- China, South Korea, Japan and Russia -- would provide Pyongyang with badly needed heavy fuel oil and the United States would offer a "provisional" guarantee not to attack North Korea, the officials said.

The United States also would take steps to address North Korean concerns about continued U.S. economic sanctions and its presence on the U.S. list of states that sponsor terrorism, the officials said.

McCormack said Washington would provide written security assurances to North Korea during a provisional period as Pyongyang took steps to dismantle its nuclear program.

CNN

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Originally posted by xbin
But US true blamed NK selling missile tech. NK asked if US can compensate the economic loss, then NK will stop selling, but US turned down the idea.

xbin you are dead wrong and what you are saying is not true. The US as recently as Jun 23 offered N. Korea Aid and economic support

- Westy you cannot possibly know what NK was offered. Not the full details.

also a guarantee that the US would not attack them.

- wow, that was good of them, a guarantee not to launch an unprovoked illegal attack, how impressive.

The US would give this to N. Korea if Kim closed his nuke program. What does Kim say... he says NO!

- Fancy that. Imagine Kim & Co. not being keen on being dictated to by the foreign US gov. What a surprise considering NK's recent-ish experiences with foreign 'pressure'/occupation/control.

Now how can you blame the US when we offered them everything they wanted and the refused?

- well I'd be inclined to start thinking that maybe the reports are actually inaccurate and wrong and maybe they were not offered everything they wanted or perhaps some of the detail was nothing like as has been presented to us and they could not agree.

Originally posted by xbin
Kim is not crazy, he is very clear what he is doing. NK is deperately want to back to international society, and US is the main obstacle.

This is also not true The US in the offer I made above told Kim like Libya by giving up its nuclear program it restored ties to the US and is receiving economical help Kim again said No!

- Westy if all you have got is a mantra that you think Kim is crazy then there really isn't much to talk about.

I've answered your 'they have nothing to lose' arguement. It is absurd.

I think I have made fair points regarding the US's legitimacy to dictate to NK. There is none. The US must negotiate in good faith and I believe progress is very possible. But I certainly do not think that Bush and his 'axis of evil' crap has helped create any kind of conditions for trust and progress in this matter either.....and name calling and crass propaganda are no help at all.



[edit on 8-8-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

Sminky, I wouldn't waste your time on Westy, he refuses to listen, and when you prove him wrong he either just spoutes his rhetoric or just refuses to reply.

He still hasn't answered questions me and GooseUK asked him... he just vanishes when you show that he is wrong

[edit on 8-8-2004 by stumason]

American people like to talk how many aid they have given to NK, but part of reason of NK's poverty is also because of US's sanction. NK's purpose is apparently not more several million $$$ of aid, but a change of US's NK policy. If NK can join the international trade society and attract foreign investment, their economy will become better even without US's aid.

If NK will follow Libya model we still can see. I thnk NK also know get some US aid is simple but change US's NK policy is difficult, especially Bush declared NK as one of the evil axis. But I guess NK will still fully bet on nuke issue, because except this, they have nothing else can force US into the negotiation table.

the only reason the North koreans want the bomb is protection against blatant American aggression.

As for the fact NK is poor, blame the sanctions. Same with Iraq.... I mean come on, you beat a country stupid in the war and win completely. But do you then have to screw it some more for ten years and kill all its people? i think the whole policy of sanctions is ethically and morally wrong, and some serious thinking must be done on how better to deal with the worlds issues.

Today is still the days of "Rule of the Jungle" as evidence by the Iraq war. NK is entitled right to have missiles and nukes as a deterrence of possible US aggression.

Once US leaving Korea penisula or mend its hostile policy toward NK, NK will abandon its policy to acquire deterrence like nukes. Otherwise, I do not see a way out. I am wondering why US as democrazy do not like peace and freedom of other people by menacing around the world. We can see involvement of US/UK in all major tensions/conflicts.

Unlike Westy, i can admit the failings of my country. Although we are considerably less beligerent then the current US, we still have done our fair share of "meddling", although we prefer dimplomacy over "blowing stuff up.....yee-haw!!!"

Well I'll be damned... zcheng showed his face again he must of been hiding under rock. Stoutman are you illiterate? didn't you read my post it states what the US proposed to North Korea and they refused it. Its plain and simple crazy Kim cries like a little girls I want aid and economical help in order to give up my weapons. The US says ok we will give you all of that, then Kim says umm... I changed my mind. Crazy Kim is the one keeping North Korea isolated not the US.


[edit on 8-8-2004 by WestPoint23]

Stoutman are you illiterate?

I am assuming you mean me? I wouldn't start calling me illiterate when your spelling and grammar are far from perfect Westy.......

NK want's assurances that America isn't going to bomb the crap out of them. That is why they are persuing the bomb.

Your jingoistic responses to anyone who isn't American betray a great deal of ignorance for another countries rights and expectations. Just beacause someones ideology is different from yours, that does not make it wrong. Calling Kim Jong ill a name like "Krazy Kim" shows just how blinded and indoctrinated you are.

For someone from the "land of the free", you show very little tolerance to anyone who doesn't agree with you and a complete lack of respect to your own cherished rights of free speech.

Why exactly do you behave like this? I think you are insecure, so feel the need to shout as loud as you can about how great America is. Why not try some empathy and place yourself in the shoes of another, and maybe see something from someone elses point of view...........try it, you might like it

WP23, can you give a detailed list of what US is ready to offer ? Without more detail, we can hardly say if the US offer is what NK want or not. I have said several times, aid is not NK's main purpose.

This is actually the second nuke crisis of NK. The first one is in 1994, and it is solve by an agreement that NK freeze all of its nuke program and put it under international inspection, and US, SK, JP will provide NK a light water reactor to solve NK's power shortage. Now 10 years passed, NK did not even have a glimpse of the reactor. Last year NK drive out the international inspectors, resumed its nuke program again and cause the second nuke crisis.

US blamed NK violated 1994's agreement and think NK is not trustable. But on the other hand, NK is angry that US use various excuse to delay the light water reactor project.

Libya model is NK unilaterally give up nuke program first, but I think the pre-condition is US make NK sure that this time the case like light water reactor will not happen again.

I believe the US has the right to dictate any rogue country that poses a threat to them! Why is this fact considered so bad? Would you protect your family if the man next door was building a gun to hold them hostage with? Would you try to stop him before it was built or would you lay back and pray he didn't use it against you? Same concept.

Fine, then I think the US is a rogue country, and we should demand they disarm..... how do you feel about that?

Any county has the right to demand America to disarm! It all comes down to if they can make us! I mean heck, Angola could demand we disarm tomorrow. That doesn't mean we have to listen. I never said NK must obey all our demands. I'm just saying that if they pose a threat to us we can demand that they disarm. And if they don't and we believe they pose a big enough threat to the countries saftey, we can make them. I don't think Angola is in a postion to make us!!!!

No, but I'm sure that the UK and some of our chums could make you.

(providing we can get Tony Blair out of GWB's arse, which could prove tricky, as I couldn't even see his feet last time)

stumason

Hilarious about Blair! I always liked him because he's an awesome public speaker! I like Bush and all, but he would absolutely get tore up by the House of Commons.

Yeah man, the commons would eat Dubya alive, and still have time for lunch!
Tony Blair is a good orator..............must be why Dubya likes him so much wink wink