So Your Voting For The Globalization Presidents?

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posted on May, 29 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Rockdisjoint
 

If your not going to understand the problems i am not going to argue with you seeing how you dont understand it.



I answered this in my previous post, most of Brazil's problems come from U.S trade restrictions with Brazil. If the U.S just dropped all trade restrictions with Brazil





it would open up the second largest market for U.S exports and get cheaper imports for all of us.


Sadly i am not seeing that happening any time soon, not to mention with the american dollar falling like a ship into sea, the finical crisis is getting alot worse then u think.





It seems to me that Globalization is the only reason that many people in the West kept their jobs and lifestyles.


Thats the most ridiculous statement and to claim that Globalization is the only reason that many people in the West kept their jobs and lifestyles are you mad?


People in the west dont have jobs and are still losing there jobs, the jobless rate is higher but the government wont admit it because they wont risk a panic thats why they manipulate the numbers to keep sheeps like you in control.





But eliminating the middle class? No. It

Yes to eliminate the middle class.




posted on May, 29 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 

You're cute. You are avoiding my question, simply because it would defeat your entire argument.

"Wouldn't you like it if a business decided to come to Canada and create jobs?"



the finical crisis is getting alot worse then u think.

I'm not denying the seriousness of the finical crisis, I'm just saying that Globalization didn't cause it and that Globalization isn't evil. At least not as evil as you and many others on ATS seem to think it is.



Thats the most ridiculous statement and to claim that Globalization is the only reason that many people in the West kept their jobs and lifestyles are you mad?

It is not ridiculous at all. If it wasn't for cheap labor many Americans and Europeans would not be able to afford clothes, or a lot of other daily necessities that we need.



People in the west dont have jobs and are still losing there jobs, the jobless rate is higher but the government wont admit it because they wont risk a panic thats why they manipulate the numbers to keep sheeps like you in control.

Do you have to attack me like that? That's not nice
Yes what you're saying is true, but that has nothing to do with Globalization. It's mainly caused by government intervention distorting the market which creates a surplus in labor.



Yes to eliminate the middle class.

How? You keep saying it, but how does Globalization hurt the middle class?
edit on 29-5-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by Rockdisjoint
 


I wont bother responding to you and consider this my last response to you Rockdisjoint




I'm not denying the seriousness of the finical crisis, I'm just saying that Globalization didn't cause it and that Globalization isn't evil. At least not as evil as you and many others on ATS seem to think it is.


Globalization did cause it with the help of democracy, democracy is slavery.





At least not as evil as you and many others on ATS seem to think it is.


OH REALLY IT ISN'T? and Just what are you a spokesmen for the elites attacking us on ATS? you know if you dont like it here then please leave.





Do you have to attack me like that? That's not nice Yes what you're saying is true, but that has nothing to do with Globalization. It's mainly caused by government intervention distorting the market which creates a surplus in labor.


and just who spreads Globalization? the governments and NGOs.



It's mainly caused by government intervention distorting the market which creates a surplus in labor


Its clear by that post you dont understand it.
edit on 29-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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One effect of globalization:

All the western nations will eventually be reduced to the lowest
common labor denominator.

Everyone in the 3rd world gets a small upgrade, everyone in the
1st world gets a big downgrade and we all happily meet in the
middle with out global masters making sure we are "multicultural"
and have no cohesion to oppose their insanity.

Review history, the comfy middle class has only existed once in
human history and it has only been for a very short time.

They like it the old way and things are going smoothly back in
that direction.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Alots of Globalization fans i see in this threads
why i am not surprised.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Version100
 


So are you claiming globalization is the reason the middle class died? And that without globalization, the US would still have a strong middle class?

I think Rockdis makes some great points. People like to complain about 'globalization', but then they go buy the cheapest thing on the market, likely from some 'developing' country. The middle class priced themselves out of existence. Why would a manufacturer stay in N. America when they can operate at a fraction of their cost somewhere else?

To pretend that it is just the process of globalization that has lead the the demise of the blip of middle class comfort some in the West enjoyed post WW2 is to not understand cause and effect. An wit he value of the dollar dropping, the US has a real chance of increasing exports in the future, which will lead to a return of a lot of industries, and the creation of new ones.

Yes, it will be at lower pay than the previous highs, but I have little sympathy for the fallen middle class. They have largely squandered their privilege anyway.

As for the OP, I still maintain the real battle is between the Globalists and the Nationalists. And if the Nationalists win, the majority of the world loses.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 





Neoliberal globalization has been a windfall for the stockholders, agents, and officers of transnational corporations and their client governments. The manipulation of global labor markets has facilitated the extraction of unimaginable super-profits from the working classes of the world.


If you Support Globaliztion you support the elites


So if you support the elites you support there agenda and the creation of the north american union and or any other agendas they might have.
edit on 29-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by Version100
 


So are you claiming globalization is the reason the middle class died? And that without globalization, the US would still have a strong middle class?

I think Rockdis makes some great points. People like to complain about 'globalization', but then they go buy the cheapest thing on the market, likely from some 'developing' country. The middle class priced themselves out of existence. Why would a manufacturer stay in N. America when they can operate at a fraction of their cost somewhere else?

To pretend that it is just the process of globalization that has lead the the demise of the blip of middle class comfort some in the West enjoyed post WW2 is to not understand cause and effect. An wit he value of the dollar dropping, the US has a real chance of increasing exports in the future, which will lead to a return of a lot of industries, and the creation of new ones.

Yes, it will be at lower pay than the previous highs, but I have little sympathy for the fallen middle class. They have largely squandered their privilege anyway.

As for the OP, I still maintain the real battle is between the Globalists and the Nationalists. And if the Nationalists win, the majority of the world loses.



If corporations had not out sourced all US manufacturing the Dollar
would not be dropping like a lead balloon.

Corporations decided greed was far better than economic strength
for the nation and they sold out a couple decades ago.

America was once the power house of industry but greed has reduced
it to a failing service economy.

This is by design, not necessity.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Version100


If corporations had not out sourced all US manufacturing the Dollar
would not be dropping like a lead balloon.


Perhaps. But who could afford our wares?


Corporations decided greed was far better than economic strength
for the nation and they sold out a couple decades ago.


Perhaps. Or perhaps they were motivated by their shareholder's bottom line that dictates ever-expanding profits.


America was once the power house of industry but greed has reduced
it to a failing service economy.


America was a powerhouse of industry because we emerged as the only standing manufacturing base after WW2.

So, are you going to answer my questions? Would the middle class still exist today if 'globalization' hadnt occurred?



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by Version100
 


The negative effects of outsourcing are over exaggerated and the positive effects of outsourcing are often kept out of the media and ignored by many. No one has a problem when European or American companies outsource jobs to each other, no one has a problem when Asian companies outsource jobs to America or Europe, but when American or European companies outsource jobs to 3rd world counties, everyone bitches about it. One group says: It's because they are "exploiting" labor, another group says: It's because they are "stealing" American or European jobs. Both groups are wrong though.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter


So if you support the elites you support there agenda and the creation of the north american union and or any other agendas they might have.


You're conflating several disparate ideologies into one monolithic agenda. "The elites' is a vague, nonsensical term used by those who dont understand the layers of control and in-fighting amongst the world's most powerful. You seem confused and your statements are becoming increasingly contradictory. I suspect you dont know what you believe or where you stand, which accounts for your hilariously simplified characterizations.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by Version100
 


The negative effects of outsourcing are over exaggerated and the positive effects of outsourcing are often kept out of the media and ignored by many. No one has a problem when European or American companies outsource jobs to each other, no one has a problem when Asian companies outsource jobs to America or Europe, but when American or European companies outsource jobs to 3rd world counties, everyone bitches about it. One group says: It's because they are "exploiting" labor, another group says: It's because they are "stealing" American or European jobs. Both groups are wrong though.


It's true. And what I found amusing is that those on the Right blame 'teh Unions' for the outsourcing of their own jobs. And, to a certain degree, they are right. Unions priced themselves out of the game. Why pay some guy in Michagin 50bucks an hour for a job pedro will do in S. America for 5 bucks an hour? To pretend the corporations have some loyalty to a region seems awfully naive. heir loyalty is to their shareholders, who demand an increased bottom line. Simple.

Then, the Left likes to blame the corporations for being 'greedy' for following this bottom line. But they dont care about greed when they benefit from it. So it's basically protectionism from the Unions and the Left. They want good jobs for THEMSELVES, not for anyone else. They could care less if pedro is starving in S America if they are eating in Michagin.

N. Americans, whether they like it or not, have seen the end of the bubble of N. American prosperity created
by the end of WW2. The dollar has been artificially high for decades, and is now being brought down to a realistic value. People will try and blame everyone they can, but this is just the cycle of things. As the dollar drops, the world market will be able to afford american made goods again. this will create jobs.

But to pretend that the tiny bubble of good union jobs we had for maybe two decades after WW2 could last forever just makes no sense. It was prosperity born from a bubble. And all bubbles burst.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
(T)heir loyalty is to their shareholders, who demand an increased bottom line. Simple.


Ding, you win.

But it was not necessary, they were more than wealthy it is just never enough.

You find it excusable, I find it disgusting.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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Globalization relies on the premise that there will always be cheap oil and energy...otherwise, travel and consumption will become a "masters only" pass-time.



posted on May, 29 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by Version100

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
(T)heir loyalty is to their shareholders, who demand an increased bottom line. Simple.


Ding, you win.

But it was not necessary, they were more than wealthy it is just never enough.

You find it excusable, I find it disgusting.



That is where you are incorrect in your assumptions. I am not finding it 'excusable'. I am just not claiming it is 'disgusting'. It just is. I am pointing out the mechanisms of commerce. To pretend that commerce is now or EVER HAS been dictated by morals, you are misinformed. The wealth that created the middle class you are bemoaning the loss of was created by greed.

The US is seeing a loss in the value of their dollar in comparison to the enormous highs thy enjoyed as a result of the end of WW2 making the US the only real competitor on the block. The good times were bound to end. Looking backwards and pretending we can all still live there is not productive. Figuring out our place int he world as it is is important.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter


So if you support the elites you support there agenda and the creation of the north american union and or any other agendas they might have.


You're conflating several disparate ideologies into one monolithic agenda. "The elites' is a vague, nonsensical term used by those who dont understand the layers of control and in-fighting amongst the world's most powerful. You seem confused and your statements are becoming increasingly contradictory. I suspect you dont know what you believe or where you stand, which accounts for your hilariously simplified characterizations.



What is Globalization?


Heres how Globalization is wiping the middle class & the poor class
great article with facts on reality.





I suspect you dont know what you believe or where you stand, which accounts for your hilariously simplified characterizations.


Nice true with the insults there, but as for my standings i definitely dont support Globalization.





You seem confused and your statements are becoming increasingly contradictory.

I am not confused and i will view your reply as an off on topic attack.




"The elites' is a vague, nonsensical term used by those who dont understand the layers of control and in-fighting amongst the world's most powerful.


but the elites and the wealthy, eg former american presidents support, the spread of globalization and this is why i use the term elites.


No Jobs, No Hope, No Future: 27 Signs That America’s Poverty Class Is Rapidly Becoming Larger Than America’s Middle Class


another article showing the failures of capitalism and globalization.

Globalization is super great for the RICH not for the poor,middle class citizens, and thats a well known fact, you can sit behind the computer, all day and urge with me how great Globalization is and can be, but if you book a flight to those countries mentioned by a member, you will have second opinions and second thoughts about what you have said in the thread.


Know this because of Globalization our jobs are been outsourced to 3d world countries, in return as you claim we get cheaper products, yet you PRO Globalization fans never seem to think outside the box, never think the negative side of the Globalization which is been cared out by the elites.

Globalization Never and dont bring any jobs to people.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 




Know this because of Globalization our jobs are been outsourced to 3d world countries, in return as you claim we get cheaper products, yet you PRO Globalization fans never seem to think outside the box, never think the negative side of the Globalization which is been cared out by the elites.

Globalization Never and dont bring any jobs to people.


This isn't what outsourcing achieves though, outsourcing is a conduit for the extension of the division of labor across the world. If an industry is exported to a different country, a new one is created in place of the last one, because labor is always needed unless the market is distorted by government intervention.

Comparative advantage.




Globalization is super great for the RICH not for the poor,middle class citizens, and thats a well known fact, you can sit behind the computer, all day and urge with me how great Globalization is and can be, but if you book a flight to those countries mentioned by a member, you will have second opinions and second thoughts about what you have said in the thread.

Globalization created the middle class. The U.S was the China of the world in the 50's, the U.S worker got paid more than anyone else, American products were of better quality than anyone else, and they sold for cheaper than anyone else and everyone LOVED it. If the U.S didn't have Europe to sell to, no one would have brought our products.

Why didn't everyone starve when the U.S did all the work? European countries found something they could do better and they began to sell to the U.S and other European countries, Japan entered into the global economy and then they began to outsource jobs and create their middle class too.

What if we didn't let anything 3rd world countries produced come here? Lets say we only brought what was made in our countries. We would all go broke, the West would be one giant Detroit. That's what a place turns into when wages are kept artificially high by unions or by tariffs. All our companies will be bankrupt and incompetent like General Motors and the post office. That's what happens when an industry is "protected".



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Rockdisjoint
 





Globalization created the middle class. The U.S was the China of the world in the 50's, the U.S worker got paid more than anyone else, American products were of better quality than anyone else, and they sold for cheaper than anyone else and everyone LOVED it. If the U.S didn't have Europe to sell to, no one would have brought our products.





everyone LOVED it


No not everyone



If the U.S didn't have Europe to sell to, no one would have brought our products.


Your American products? thats a rich one, alot of your products aren't made in the usa, they are made in china, theres no difference in and between quality.


Seeing how your a strong supporter of the north american union, euporean union, NATO, elites agenda my view point wont go through you.

But i do hope you wake and realize Globalization is what is destroying the middle class and poorer class, not helping or fixing it.
edit on 30-5-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 07:05 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Rockdisjoint
 


I was right, pro Globalization supporters always seem to run away from a debate, every time a north america union is mentioned or anything else that is agaisnt Globalization agenda.




but you still lack the ability to comprehend


I already posted links, mentioned how bad the Globalization agenda is and it can be, but it seems your the one lacking that ability, i tried my best waking and alerting you to the threat of the north american union created by the Globalization agenda.


And if you want to be in debate with me please enough of the insults, and start acting like a grown member of ATS, if you want a debate, in a debate there are no insults.
edit on 1-6-2011 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)





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