Proof We Didn't Go To The Moon?

Originally posted by proph3t777
I'm a space enthusiast, but by no means an expert. Is it possible that the Moon is included in the realm of "low earth orbit" since we're dealing with only 400,000km, compared to say the exploration of Mars at over 55 million km.

As stated above, I believe it most likely refers to the advancement and increasing of exploration past Earth's orbit; I doubt they could slip up so seriously as to imply we have never left Earths orbit... interesting statement none the less.

Thats a very good point,,,i can understand that,,,and thanks

reply to post by consigliere


I don't presume to *know* a person's intentions, just from reading the text of a comment made.

However, in context, one can surely infer reasonably.....it is apparent that parsing this statement is in error, in the manner that formed your initial post query.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by consigliere

 

I don't presume to *know* a person's intentions, just from reading the text of a comment made.

However, in context, one can surely infer reasonably.....it is apparent that parsing this statement is in error, in the manner that formed your initial post query.

Dont backtrack WW.What makes your inference more reasonable than mine

EDIT: I gave you a star for the fancy wordplay

reply to post by proph3t777

....is it possible that the Moon is included in the realm of "low earth orbit" ....

By accepted definition, no.

LEO (Low Earth Orbit) has a specific meaning. The region and volume of space that encompasses the area out to the Moon is called "cislunar" space.

Wiki, of course, is handy-dandy go-to for quick answers and here is Low Earth Orbit defined, from Wikipedia.....

Note, the "2,000 km" figure. Many satellites are in orbit, well above that height....to include geo-synchronous and geo-stationary orbits....

I remember reading somewhere that man has not really explored space because the moon is a satellite of earth.

Even those on the ISS are still influenced by the earths gravitational pull.

I find it "odd" that over forty years ago men without the assistance of advanced computers and only slide rules built a rocket that could take them to the moon and back,but today we cannot.

In reality, man will never travel through the universe.

Except, while riding on this water planet we are all residing on

reply to post by consigliere

Dont backtrack WW....

Well, full disclosure...

Your article, in the OP is about the Obama administration's altering of the Bush II's original Lunar return concept. See, Obama got flak for 'cancelling" the Lunar return that Bush proposed, but instead now....we see a grander scope unveiled, as a way to use that already explored new development, in a more adventurous vision. [**]

[**]...here's a related ATS thread, on that: www.abovetopsecret.com...



I also have been thoroughly involved in several aspects of the so-called "Moon hoax theory" for many years. Not only in the epic thread here on ATS....

The mere suggestion of an Apollo "hoax" is simply ridiculous. But, it is a sort of 'meme' that persists, and is usually limited to those of a younger generation, who lack the resources to think critically, yet. I see that you are (maybe) more of a 'cusp' wonderer, on this....since you aren't really a "youngster" (no offense). Neither am I. I watched Apollo 11 live, on the television machine....in the West Coast time zone...on 20 July, 1969.

As to the so-called Apollo "hoax"?....science trumps the hoax believers (or, "HB"s....) every time.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by consigliere

 

Dont backtrack WW....

Well, full disclosure...

Your article, in the OP is about the Obama administration's altering of the Bush II's original Lunar return concept. See, Obama got flak for 'cancelling" the Lunar return that Bush proposed, but instead now....we see a grander scope unveiled, as a way to use that already explored new development, in a more adventurous vision.

I also have been thoroughly involved in several aspects of the so-called "Moon hoax theory" for many years. Not only in the epic thread here on ATS....

The mere suggestion of an Apollo "hoax" is simply ridiculous. But, it is a sort of 'meme' that persists, and is usually limited to those of a younger generation, who lack the resources to think critically, yet. I see that you are (maybe) more o a cusp wonderer....science trumps the hoax believers (or, "HB"s....) every time.

Point me to your HB trumping proof. I will review it,draw a conclusion, then tell you what i think.IMO all the footage looks hoaxed,,,all of it.In the meanwhile im gonna crash.I will check back here tomorrow so i can follow your leads,,,after all,,,im in this for knowledge not ego

EDIT: i will check that thread out tomorrow,,,soooo sleeepy

OP, I tend to agree with you. This man admitted something I'm sure went over the heads of a lot of people.

reply to post by consigliere


Well, when you return....although I could waste ATS server space and limited electron quota by going through that Bart Sibrel piece of junk film point-by-point (since you brought it up), instead here is a link to a site you might not have seen, yet.

www.clavius.org...

That is only one resource.....


(edit) But, wait....there's more....

Of course, surely you know it ("that" film) does have a Wiki entry, too?

en.wikipedia.org...

Criticisms

Jim McDade, writing in the Birmingham News, characterized A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon as "full of falsehoods, innuendo, strident accusations, half-truths, flawed logic and premature conclusions." According to McDade, the "only thing new and weird" in the 47-minute film is that the claim that video views of Earth were actually filmed through a small hole to give the impression that Apollo 11 was not in low earth orbit. "Bart has misinterpreted things that are immediately obvious to anyone who has extensively read Apollo history and documentation or anyone who has ever been inside an Apollo Command Module or accurate mockup," says McDade.

Sibrel has also gained some national exposure as an astronaut stalker.....

I ditto, and can embellish, those opinions of Mr. Sibrel's "work".....


Also....does it interest you to know the reason for Bart Sibrel's obsession with "proving" that Apollo was "faked"?? (It involves his weird religious beliefs, in case you didn't know......).


Additionally (guess it's a "third" thing), one day (when you're ready) I will tell you about the real story behind the 'genesis' of the entire "Hoax Theory".

reply to post by proph3t777


LEO is low earth orbit, under the Van Allen belts of radiation, about the closest an ISS can be (to earth surface) and still be in orbit. It costs money to go higher, with replenishable supplies. Things in space now are simply 'just barely' enough for the funds available for what most people deem a waste of money.

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
I remember reading somewhere that man has not really explored space because the moon is a satellite of earth.

Even those on the ISS are still influenced by the earths gravitational pull.

I find it "odd" that over forty years ago men without the assistance of advanced computers and only slide rules built a rocket that could take them to the moon and back,but today we cannot.

In reality, man will never travel through the universe.

Except, while riding on this water planet we are all residing on

Dear IamJustanAmerican,

Do you also have a problem with the fact that the Polynesians traveled 1/3rd of the world by sea with no compass. Slide rulers worked quite well and we did have computers, just not in everyone's home? I mean technology is nice and all; but, mechanical solutions also work, they just put on more weight.

Oh my goodness! Another 'Moon Hoax Thread'.

Of course we went to the Moon. How else could we have found out it wasn't made of green cheese?

reply to post by consigliere


Dear consigliere,

I watched the video through three of five sections. I must admit that they make a lot of bad assumptions. The biggest is that nobody else noticed. The shadows make bad assumptions that they are being cast from things that are aligned, on the same angle to the sun, the waving of the flag only happened when they were twisting it into the ground, not wind, twisting.

There are too many points in the film that do not prove what they say. I will put it another way, you have used google earth and seen pictures form the Hubble telescope. The Russians and Chinese have those also, they know the coordinates to where we landed on the moon, they can see what is still there with their telescopes and if we had lied would love to say so.

As for the radiation belt, nobody was given the technology that got us there, same reason that we held back live feeds and gave grainy pictures. Why spend all that money and then give the Russians the same information as us, the cold war was still pretty hot at the time and we were in Vietnam. I don't mean to ridicule and that is not my intent, I mean to respond to your original post. I watched the movie because you pointed me to it.

The last member of my family involved in aerospace died four years ago. He had to have top secret because the technology was and is top secret. Same back in the 60s. There is technology in the space shuttle that we will not reveal, it cost us too much and gives us an advantage. We never explained how we got past the Van Alden belt because then the Russians would not have to spend the same to figure it out on their own, it was a money drain, the whole space race was.

I don't trust what I read, I research it and keep researching it till I feel a degree of confidence, then I tell others and let them challenge me. This one does not seem to be true based on the history that we do know. I understand that this is a conspiracy site and we should question all; but, we should also consider whether or not what we would like to believe is supported by the truth and the truth all leads to accepting that we went to the moon. As for Mr Armstrong not talking much, he never did before and never will, he appears to be very humble. If you were the first man on the moon and knew what it took to get you there, would you make it about you or stay out of sight and make it about the human endeavor?

I do hope I have responded to you in a truthful yet honest manner, I am giving you my take on your question. I have not a will not belittle you for asking the question, how can I, consider my username. In believing in questions, I also believe in trying to discuss answers and possible answers. Be well.

I love when people attack others over this Moon issue, and they do get right testy about it - like how dare you even ask such questions how absurd!
Then ask back how could SO MANY people have kept the secret? All those people at Nasa.
Well lets see - - - they didn't all know??? Maybe they only knew "their part".
I am sure like any military type government agency it was compartmentalized.

Let me see, how could we send thousands and thousands of troops into Iraq and lie to millions and millions of Americans at home and spend billions and billions of dollars if there really were no WMD?

I've been deployed, I've seen first hand that the flight line has no idea what is going on over the line, the Army has no idea what the Air Force is doing on other side of the base, and you have NO idea the secrets that I know that you do not. Does that make them less real? My buddy who didn't see the classified material will go to his grave defending and fighting about what he believes . . . based on what he doesn't even know.

So don't give me the high and mighty scare off you are so ignorant routine - maybe you and the riviters at Nasa really don't know. But attack me on a personal level, ask me if I do math, query if I visit the website.
You could visit the Air Force website and devour Janes - but you still won't know jack about what is really going on. Better yet . . . you could watch the news, and then let me tell you for certain - Then you really won't know -WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON.

So spare me the how could they keep the secret stance as some kind of proof - and you could show up tomorrow from some xxz government agency and tell me how it really is - but you wouldn't win, I understand psychops - I've seen it. So ask yourself do you really believe what you believe because YOU KNOW - FOR A FACT, or is it just based on what you know OF THE FACTS, which again may be limited?

Go ahead rip up my math skills - I still know classified stuff and you don't!!! You know the line, I could tell ya . . . but then - well who cares about you. I can't tell, I'd go to jail.

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reply to post by consigliere


reply to post by consigliere


You want proof in a sort of cliffsnotes way which isn't fair. No one can summarize what you don't already understand and no one can sway you from your ingrained beliefs. You need to research real live space travel to get in the same ballpark first to even know what people are talking about.

One would first realize things do not look the same on the moon as they do on earth for two very predominant reasons. First there is no atmospheric haze, so something 40 miles away looks as clear as something by your side. Second the light is reflected in all sorts of directions due to the surface terrane and geology, and appears to be ominous to our atmospheric lighting here on earth, largely very absorbent of the spectrum of light that gets here..

Like I said, one thing at a time you can get the real reasonable answers to your speculations. It takes some critical thinking, and the ability to dispel the personal delusion of grandeur. You think you know more than the collective several hundred years of scientific astronomical discoveries and excavated evidence?

So tell us where do you work on this omnipotent talent/genius/ability at?

You say it doesn't pass your common sense threshold, well you haven't passed any either. Explain.

reply to post by TheBirdisDone


Dear TheBirdisDone,

I agree with not burning people for asking questions. I agree with stating what we do know; but, we don't know that we did not go to the moon. We have lots of reasons for believing we did. As for knowing government secrets, so do a lot of people. Yes, the government lies and can keep some secrets; but, not the biggest ones. People tell their children the secrets and if they deserve to be kept then they are, the kids don't sign the agreements that others do. Not bound by them. Will you tell your children your secrets before you die, of course you will, why do you think the people who went to the moon would not?

You know my words to the OP have been supportive of his asking while still telling what I believe. I treat you the same way, with respect. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion


It was more than a question it was an insinuation of false proof. That is entirely different and I have less patience with those youngsters insinuating they know more.

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by AQuestion

 

It was more than a question it was an insinuation of false proof. That is entirely different and I have less patience with those youngsters insinuating they know more.

Dear illustronci,

I do hope that you were not referring to what I have posted as an insinuation of false proof, because I did not, I merely questioned and responded to his OP.

No - I will take my secrets to the grave Thank you, and they will haunt me - my kid doesn't need to know.
I'm only a little crazy - those with the BIG secrets are really crazy - maybe even brain washed a little - did that ever occur to anyone? Ever seen the "truth" video with the broken astronaut? I'm on here posting quacky stuff so I am not seen as any real threat. I'm harmless. But I know stuff.

I have questions about the validity of the reality that men actually walked on the moon. I don't have to research space travel either - my questions come from what I know about earthly travel and our capabilities with military Air Craft and computer technology - and what I have seen concerning psychological operations. I find it hard to believe we retrofitted ballistic missles and used a computer with less power then a calculator to get men safely to the SURFACE of moon and back. I believe the "space race" was hugely beneficial to mankind, created jobs and drove the economy - much like war, but in a refreshing idealistic way = but with the same results. $$$$ spent and $$$$$ made. I drive over to watch the space shuttle missions go - launch or scrub, and I love my astronaut memories. It shaped us. But I'm not sure ALL of it was real.

What I have witnessed makes me question everything and it is why I found this site late at night in the attempt there might be some companionship - mostly not, or I am afraid - disinfo types.

But I cannot believe we went to the Moon with any faith simply based on: "How could we keep such a secret?" You see that kind of rationalization is an extreme fallacy to me based on my own experience and knowledge base. So, I'm not saying we did, or didn't with certainty - but, I cannot sooth myself with just accepting the main stream feel good story and build my case on what others believe. Sorry.

I must also point out then even when some people know the truth they can't accept it. I've seen that also.

reply to post by TheBirdisDone


Dear ThisBirdisDone,

They lie, they lie about many things. I know this and they also tell some truths, we are in Iraq, aren't we? Don't trust everything and don't distrust everything, determine what makes sense. Check by looking at all sources.