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Ayn Rand!!! Where Alan Greenspan got his greed from...........(New Documentary)

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posted on May, 24 2011 @ 06:24 AM
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Reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 


These are two different things.

Revolting to remove the current tyrant and imposing some draconian measure as a way to prevent the resurgence of said tyrant.

Casting off the chains that bind is never anything less than righteous.

Look at the American Revolution. The colonists rose up to cast off the British chains and seek self governance. That's great. Nobody was forced to do it. They chose to and volunteered to.

Then, not 20 years later, Washington tramples a bunch of farmers in Pennsylvania for not voluntarilly paying tithing to the new tyrant.

The way you're making it sound it seems to me you would run the course of Americas revolution. Ejecting one tyrant only to become a tyrant yourself.

It isn't really wrong I guess. In a way Hitler only wanted world peace. His kind of world peace.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Uncle Gravity

So let's say for talking sake that millions of people on a planet (let's call this planet Earth) are enslaved in endless debt. These people wake up and have decided they have had enough of this nonsense and want change. But the people that want this world situation to remain in place (let's call them the NWO) are determined to quell any uprising. Frankly they do not want to give up their never ending profit scheme "voluntarily" so the enslaved people are forced to revolt and make them see the error of their ways. To you this is tyranny! To me this is a fight for freedom and righteousness!



No kidding!
Talk about riots and uprisings.
Here is part 4, man I remember these.


David Grouchy




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


No no, we need to get rid of the current debt, slave structure and let the people come up with a better solution. A more equal society. No more tyrants or dictators or what would be use of getting rid of the old one's. This is where the people have failed in the past, letting a new dictator step in. Someone who has promised to make thing's better or in other words political bulls**t and turns out worse than the last one. We need to be guided by people we can prove are honest, trustworthy downright good human being's. Morally incorruptible souls to guide us in the right direction. Not some morally defunct people like Thatcher, Blair, Bush or Obama.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Wow. What a conclusion in part 5/5.
This has put the clearest face on China,
and the secret third world country inside America I have ever seen.

Apparently the 2008 crash was our Jakarta, our Indonesia,
and the whole time the financial elite thought the computers had everything covered.


David Grouchy



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 06:54 AM
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Reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 


Sure.

Just be careful with your implementation. It doesn't sound like you have any real plans or answers and pair that with "more equal society" and you're just asking for a tyrant to step in.

Until you have I all worked out with something more substantial than dreams and wishes it'd be best not to jump in head first.

Your biggest variable is the people. They love tyranny. They love using mob rule to dictate to minorities and politician types love corralling the peoples dependence into a platform of control.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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A good documentary OP, i watched it last night.

What I found odd about Ayn Rand was that she didn't blink!
Though she thought her philosophy was the correct way for us to live, she ended her days in misery and not surrounded by love. I suppose that's what you get when you concentrate on the self. What a tragic lady.

What was clear from the documentary was the underlying elite that was pulling the strings all for self gain. Screw the president and the people sadly.

Boom and bust, self protection, history repeating itself.

If only she'd stayed in Russia, how different things would have been.
Maybe she should be labelled a WMD with the Russian stamp on it.


edit on 24-5-2011 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-5-2011 by JonoEnglish because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 

Of course. Avoid going to the source whenever possible.


To be fair Phage, the OP was commenting about this documentary. Or should he have had to read her books in order to make a comment?



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Ayn Rand is held up as a libertarian hero, yet in her and her husband Frank O'Connor's last years they signed up for both social security and Medicare. They signed up shortly after Frank was diagnosed with lung cancer. So when push came to shove, she latched on to government benefits just like the rest of us will when and if given the chance.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by pajoly
 


Is she?

I know libertarians and Libertarians like to trumpet some of her ideas but there has always been a very nasty divide between libertarians and "objectivists."


AR: Because Libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and they denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication, when that fits their purpose. They are lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They’d like to have an amoral political program.


Which is why there are no "heroes." Rand is a spook and her pseudo-philosophy as well.

It doesnt mean everything out of her mouth should be discounted or her personal interpretation of her life experiences ignored. There are valuable lessons in her fiction and her life just as in all our lives and all our fiction.

The only thing you can ever really count on is yourself and Rand acknowledges it in her "philosophy" while simultaneously wishing to limit others freedom to connect with themselves making allowances only when convenient.

The two, libertarians and "objectivists", cannot be equated so absolutely.

Grabbing the handouts actually fits pretty well with Rand over libertarians since the handouts as they exist would benefit the self. Some one like Rand wouldnt not take a benefit that existed. She may argue it should have never existed at all but the fact is that it does so why shouldnt she take advantage?

That's the sort of justifiable hypocrisy that prevents any real liberty from taking hold.
edit on 24-5-2011 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


I appreciate your thoughtful and thorough rebuttal and I will certainly defer to your point, as it is much more informed and studied than my own. I am just sick and tired of the simplistic black an white views of too many ATS posters. It seems we've bred a generation of people unable to think critically or for themselves. They latch to one hyperbolic blanket statement by someone they revere like a zealot preacher or rabid pundit an they run with it.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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If Ayn Rand is for greed,

Why does John Galt work a low level job?
Why does Hank Reardon contribute more tax money to the state than anyone possibly should?
Why is Dagny Taggart only the vice president when her useless brother is the president of the railroad company?
Why does Francisco D'Anconia intentionally bankrupt his family business so he can start all over again from scratch?

Why does James Taggart, who only sought power, suffer a mental breakdown at the end of the book?
Why is it that the freeloaders of the world (who always want more, the very definition of greed), more loathsome than anyone else in the book (and yet John Galt tries to enlighten them regardless of their mindlessness).

Of course, you need to actually read the book in order to answer these types of questions.


edit on 24-5-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 

You should read her work.

I watched her Donahue interviews
and felt like her ideology was a threat
to American Democracy.

Ron Paul said recently that Ayn Rand
had influenced him greatly in his life.

And his son Rand Paul said Ayn was one
of his favorite writers.

I wonder if all the Ron Paul fans know about
his fondness for Ayn ???

I believe she is a Russian Marxist ideologue.
Also think she studied economics at the same
university as George Soros.

She's also an Atheist
and that's all I need to know


edit on 5/24/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)


I'm no Rand scholar but:Rand is far from a "marxist". She believes in the power of the individual nota collective.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Before anyone assumes to know Ayn Rand's philosophy try actually reading her books! Deny ignorance, right? So it should be a no brainer that we shouldn't believe what a documentary tells us about Rand's philosophy. We should go right to Rand's works in order to draw our own conclusions.

Selfishness according to Rand isn't about being greedy. It's about having the freedom to do what's best for you while at the same time not infringing on other's rights.

Ayn Rand was against the NWO structure. One of the antagonists of The Fountainhead was a NWO shill who controlled the media and thus the masses. The other antagonist was a greedy man who used people to get ahead in his career.

The protagonist stuck to his own belief system despite what the others did to try and control and destroy him.

Surprising that so few around here have actually read The Fountainhead.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 

You should read her work.

I watched her Donahue interviews
and felt like her ideology was a threat
to American Democracy.

Ron Paul said recently that Ayn Rand
had influenced him greatly in his life.

And his son Rand Paul said Ayn was one
of his favorite writers.

I wonder if all the Ron Paul fans know about
his fondness for Ayn ???

I believe she is a Russian Marxist ideologue.
Also think she studied economics at the same
university as George Soros.

She's also an Atheist
edit on 5/24/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)



No Saint, she is fervently anti Marxist

I read an interesting article that explains her origins
and the psychology behind here distain for many things.
The Marxists did much harm to her family I believe

IMO she is bad for humanity, this sick greedy era of NWO
is perpetuated by her exaltation of individually perpetuated greed,
materialism and domination, all though not always stated, the results
Invite the moral decay Jesus decried during his journey on Earth.
Rand would have deified the money lenders, now the only way to pass into heaven
is through a money lenders purse strings,

they thank you Ayn. Trickle Down and all of wall street does too


Certainly the woman had been affected terribly by instances in her upbringing. In her stories, for instance, rape seems to be the preferred form of sexual advance, once a proper introduction had been established, of course.

As much a study in psychology as anything else, Miss Rand's stories have drivers whose car's steering wheel makes the entire planet move while the car actually stays stationary. She has land protected by haarp devices so the government cannot even find them. Once there, there's a safe with a special 'voice lock' which can read the actual 'heart' before letting you enter. 'Heart' seems out of place when describing the writing of Ayn Rand, so let's just say the lock can read 'something'. Miss Rand dedicates special attention to the cigarettes produced by her pirate suppliers....and her female characters seemed to like to swing, or date around with all the studs who produce great material things that make life worth while....while simultaneously avoiding VD because Ayn Rand really hates VD.

She makes for an interesting literary style, if not a little bombastic. But no, she's no marxist. It is eye opening to see what a little slut she really was, though, ideologically, in real life. I must have read it all wrong, though.....because when I found out she was screwing around with greenspan and crew, it was like Dagny Taggart letting Ellsworth Toohey take her on the chaise lounge, with the 4000 per inch thread count, in rare silk, after doing shots of cointreau. It seems like she would avoid the leeches and parasites and robbers and esp government types, preferring someone like warren buffett or gates, since they're so rich....and productive...industrious. I like to reflect on Dagny's getting on her knees and pulling weeds, at Reardon's closed factory...when pulling weeds. Yes, no weeds must be allowed to grow. If there's a weed in a single crevice or crack, there's simply no reason to do anything but to rip it out.

She's no Marxist. She is, however, most likely a totalitarian.

edit on 24-5-2011 by starless and bible black because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 


Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
reply to post by Phage
 


Yeah you right Rand, just copied and pasted from some site. I had never heard of her until last night i thought it was a great Documentary, looking forward to the rest.

 


Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 

You should read her work.

 


Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
reply to post by Phage
 


I didn't agree with most of her views on the show. Goes against most of the thing's i believe in. I will save my reading for people i believe have something good to say for humanity. Cheers anyway.

 

Uncle Gravity do you see anything in this? You've not heard of Ayn ( pronounced Ian "e-an" ) RAND and now you require others to accept your opinion on her and her philosophies?

Phage has given you advice of the Wise... the rule of Sages... "You should read her work."...

You reply with "I will save my reading for people i believe have something good to say for humanity..."

I can understand some people being "put off" with Ayn Rand when they first come across her... but I can NOT be in any accord with someone who doesn't KNOW anything about her work, refusing to learn it. As Phage advised... READ HER WORK. At least we could have a meaningful conversation about her if you do... As it stands it's like talking to a child about very adult matters. Not only that... a child that refuses to even learn of the matter.

You might not have any background in philosophy ( since you've never heard of Ayn Rand )... But reading her "Romantic Manifesto" might help... let alone other suggestions already made in this thread. This does NOT mean you'll agree with EVERYTHING she says... after all she herself "grew" and had a growing philosophy and understanding of her philosophy and "self" as most of us do... But if your statements about her in this thread represent your understanding of YOUR SELF ( let alone lack of understanding her ) you might want to re-consider your views on someone you NEVER heard about till some secondary source provided you with exposure to her..... Be honest and let HER work speak for her and not selected clips of her statements...

Don't even try claiming her statements you've seen, represent her.... no more then I take it that YOUR posts in this thread are a representation of YOU. Read her works man... or please PLEASE don't ask people to accept your opinion ( except as a first impression ) as having much value on the topic..... being Ayn Rand.

Again this doesn't mean you will agree with all her views... but you certainly will agree with some, and have a much better consensus regarding her, so you can reflect upon it and gain more comprehensive and clarified opinions ....

"Let no man posture as an advocate of peace if he proposes or supports any social system that initiates the use of force against individual men, in any form." ~ Ayn Rand

It's brilliant someone ( you ) has been exposed to Ayn Rand and philosophy but it is very frustrating if you settle with a shallow understanding and NOT read all her work.... you might think of it as application required in the search for truth... comprehension and understanding... YOUR primary understanding ( what YOU think and feel ) and not some hand-me down opinion from secondary sources.. or a limited consensus ..... or one days worth of clips on the internet... READ HER WORKS or give up your interest and threads on Ayn Rand... PLEASE! lol

Yes it will require time.. but hey! Those who know this topic would love to have someone like you join in a brilliant thread, that has at least SOME background on her work. This reminds me of people that hear the Canadian Band RUSH for the first time and claim Rush sucks! and never listen to the band... or know what RUSH has done.. never to listen to their WORK!

edit on 2011/5/24 by Serafine because: editing



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by Serafine
 


By all means, read her work. It is philosophy wrapped in storyline. It is something she was passionate about, enough so to make a fool of herself if only by extremism, but this extremism is part of her, and her style. Once read, everyone can have a meaningful talk about her. With the right kind of glasses, her epic stories can be fabulous reads. You have to know where to stop, when to skip over the screeds and extended rants, and realize that it's only a book, after all. Like most godless folk, money and or power seem to rule the day, every day.

She seemed to be on top of Tesla stuff, at least by her syntax if not actual descriptions. I've read much worse books. Weak minds may be altered suddenly by overabsorption, so cautions....

I just get the feeling that Ayn Rand is something that Glen Beck must be talking about, am I right? Also, I'll agree that it does seem amateurish to hear people saying 'I'll take your word for it and avoid it' etc....



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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She had a belief system that she showed through fictional stories. And people began to follow those beliefs as if they were a religion. Does that remind you of anybody. L Ron Hubbard maybe and Scientology. Rand Paul even qouted her in a speech in front of Congress. Ron Paul says her book is number two in the world?

Here is a post I made the other day with Ron Paul Rand Paul and this woman.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 24-5-2011 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 


Here is a couple of links that I think you should read.

First, for a more equal world, you should read
Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut 1961.
It is pretty short.

Here is a link to Ayn Rand's
Anthem 1937.

And finally, one of my all time favorites.
Pictures of the Socialistic Future by Eugen Richter. 1891.

All of these stories were way ahead of their time, and yet the concepts in each one are still valid.
The question that needs to be asked is, "Would you want to live in a world like that?"

I don't.

J.



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
I believe she is a Russian Marxist ideologue.
Also think she studied economics at the same
university as George Soros.


edit on 5/24/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)


Not a Marxist. She had a violent hatred for all things communist. When she was a teen Rand's parents pharmacy that they worked like slaves to build up was stripped away from him under the guise of 'nationalization' during the revolution.

She remained bitter about having to work for people who didn't work for themselves for the rest of her life. A feeling I share myself



posted on May, 25 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by 7anked
reply to post by Uncle Gravity
 


You cant blam Rand for Greenspan! or Clinton's OR "The NWO" the world just dont work like that.


sepia never black n white.


Yes and no - Ayn Rand Wiki


After the publication of The Fountainhead, Rand received numerous letters from readers, some of whom it had profoundly influenced. In 1951 Rand moved from Los Angeles to New York City, where she gathered a group of these admirers around her. This group (jokingly designated "The Collective") included future Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, a young psychology student named Nathan Blumenthal (later Nathaniel Branden) and his wife Barbara, and Barbara's cousin Leonard Peikoff.



Rand's funeral was attended by some of her prominent followers, including Alan Greenspan.



There was also increased criticism of her ideas, especially from the political left, with critics blaming the economic crisis on her support of selfishness and free markets, particularly through her influence on Alan Greenspan.


Maybe not blame her for him, but I think we can definitely say he was influenced by her, and that her influence in his financial decisions did not work out so well for us.




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