Raising gender-neutral or gender-specific kids.....Does it matter?

reply to post by Aeons


I agree. My brother had a teddy he treated like a baby, and he was a great guy. He was all boy, but at the same time, he was the best with kids of all three of us. He wanted to be a father, and he would have made a great one. He was so not a sissy, but at the same time, he wasnt this cardboard cut out of what a man should be.

Im glad you just let your son be himself. Its the best gift you can give a human being.

Does anyone think that the publicity on this is more "divide and conquer"?

As a non religious person, I see an attack on the Christian morals occurring from TPTB. By taking away our identities on every aspect from race to gender. I mean what better what to divide and degrade a society than make everyone think they have no identity other than their sexuality?

There is nothing wrong with a family unit, one that just about every species of animal has. This reminds me of the feminist movement created by men, to break the family up and have both parents paying taxes.

Not only that, but what if TSHTF and something does happen? All the men are busy being progressive and feminine due to media programming that they think is their choice. A bunch of docile girly men who have no way of fighting back or defending their families. Do you think the tribes living in the middle of jungles have these issues that are clearly programmed into our culture?

I was watching the program Human Planet and a tribesman climbed to the top of a 300 foot tree to build a home for his family. When he got to the top his kids and wife thought he was a god. The rest of the tribe earned respect for him and thought he was amazing. Something about that made me really question our society, and say to myself "now that is a father" I had serious respect for that for some reason and thought to myself that in our society we would be convinced that was somehow sexist.

reply to post by eleventhsun


Women in pre-Christian areas in my ancestory held positions of power, could be chieftains, warriors, mothers, and wives. They were farmers, and priestesses. They taught the young how to be warriors as part of their mothering.

When those same nations became Christian, it was the WOMEN who converted. The nations converted on the say of women.

Your idea on "feminine" is not mine. Nor was it my ancestors. I am not "outside" the family. I *am* the family, and I am merely taking back my rightful place as it always was.

reply to post by Aeons


Lol. Someone else who knows European history.

Damn skippy. This is much less a break with "tradition" than a return to it in many ways, for Europeans. After an almost 2000 year deviation into middle eastern misogyny, its back to business as usual.

reply to post by Aeons


But you are one woman out of many.

How many women have been convinced that being a female means standing up for sex? Or being a "slut"?

What you described IS my idea of feminine. A family is NOTHING without the mother. Every man, boy and child needs a strong and loving mother. Every strong group needs a strong and loving mother. But every family needs a father. A man who is ready to show his teeth to protect his lady and his children.

A family needs a man who is aware because his parents raised him to have the qualities of both genders due to proper love and care. I have great qualities from my mother and father, it comes from parenting and genetics. Not by forced lesson teaching.

My point was that in other cultures it is respected and loved when a man risks his life and does the dirty work for his wife and kids. Here women have been tricked into believing any use of our natural testosterone and larger body and muscle mass to help our family is an attack on femininity.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


It took the conquerors 500 years to disarm my female ancestors. We don't bow down easy, and we'll pop back up just like a weeble-wobble.

reply to post by eleventhsun


Exactly. Gender-enforcement (or forcing a lack of it) is utterly ridiculous and the results speak for themselves.

I like Illusions description. Women are drag queens and men are self-centered grunting dorks. Or men stoic and women vapid.

Everyone who ascribes to this enforcing gender (or none) thing is a fraking cartoon.

reply to post by Aeons


Lol. I love reading what the Romans wrote home about the women in the British Isles. There is some truly great stuff in there. We might come from similar stock.

But you are right, it took them hundreds of years and pretty extreme means to subdue European women, and they never stopped pushing for their rights back.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Women converted to Christianity, and then the conquerors failed to understand that what they saw was a man who loved women. All Jesus's followers were originally women. He needed disciples to talk to MEN. The women heard him directly. The conquerors still don't understand.

While I understand what the parents are trying to do, I guess what I don't understand is...why?

I was born a boy, was taught to be and grew up to be a man. When I was little I was glued to my fathers side, imitating him in almost every way. I didn't wear a dress, play with dolls, or put on make-up. I wasn't told I couldn't, but I wasn't told I could or should either.

I was taught how to "be a man": to be a leader, self-sufficient, respectful, show respect and earn it, be responsible, and act with chivalry. As far as I am concerned, this is a great thing.

I don't understand this whole "gender-free" thing. You are either a male, a female, or have a mutation that somehow affects your sex.

...they flipped a coin at the airport to decide what to tell people. It landed on heads, so for the next week, everyone who asked was told Storm was a boy.

Really? Calling your son a boy or a girl based on a coin toss? Do they honestly think that this won't have some sort of effect as the child grows up?

Being free to explore yourself or change your image is great and all, but I think that a child needs to have a firm foundation before anything is "explored". A boy who calls himself a princess and wears a pink dress is going to receive some flak and probably face serious issues if he is heterosexual (I'm not being crude here, read the article).

Sometimes parents take it too far, and I think that this is such a case. If the boy wants to be a princess or a girl wants to be a tomboy, super - but make sure they know they are a boy or a girl.

Originally posted by eleventhsun
Not only that, but what if TSHTF and something does happen? All the men are busy being progressive and feminine due to media programming that they think is their choice. A bunch of docile girly men who have no way of fighting back or defending their families. Do you think the tribes living in the middle of jungles have these issues that are clearly programmed into our culture?

I don't think this would be a bad thing.

Most of these effeminate, girly ''men'' would perish in a hypothetical post-apocalypse scenario. While it's unfortunately that many of their wives and children would also be killed, this would just be natural selection at its finest.

When order and stability was restored, it would be left to the real men and their families to mop up and start rebuilding society again.

The gene-pool would be a lot stronger as it wouldn't be diluted by most of these snivelling, effeminate ''men'' that are all too prevalent in today's society.

Originally posted by eleventhsun

My point was that in other cultures it is respected and loved when a man risks his life and does the dirty work for his wife and kids. Here women have been tricked into believing any use of our natural testosterone and larger body and muscle mass to help our family is an attack on femininity.

Men are still respected and loved in more egalitarian cultures too. Its not a matter of "women ruling." Its a matter of letting people be themselves, and if that means a female ruler THIS TIME its what it means, if it means a male ruler most of the time, its what it means.

You know what a lot of men pushing for traditional culture dont seem to realize? How WEAK they sound mewling for attention and respect. You know who begs, whines, complains, stomps around in a rage that they arent being respected? Men whose real complaint should be with society itself. Not women. Men who are raised to be confident in themselves, and to be themselves really dont NEED someone to make them feel better about themselves.

Feeling good about who you are is wholly an internal function. Wholly. No amount of praise makes someone lacking a strong sense of self feel good for more than a moment, and no amount of criticism makes someone with a strong sense of self feel bad for more than a moment. NEEDING someone else to make you feel good about who you are and what you stand for is weak. Male or female.

I love men. Good men. I have tons of respect for individual men and women. I dont respect people as "groups.' A lot of men and women dont deserve my respect, and they arent getting it. And for men just having a penis doesnt mean you deserve respect. There are great men, good men, and crappy men, and I reserve the right to only respect those who are good and great. Same with women. I reserve the right to judge people based on their own merits, and only give respect to those who deserve it.

reply to post by Konah


I have a suspicion that these parents are manipulating the boys thoughts about wearing dresses. I have a nephew and niece that are 2 and 3, I see how they act. You can tell them just about anything is "cool" or "wow" and they agree. Just a bit fishy that their kids ALL seem to want to dress the opposite "gender"

The article says something about the boy WANTING people to know he's a boy, because obviously he's faced people thinking he was a girl. That shows me that the parents aren't letting him choose his clothes, they are hinting him to the girls clothes, telling him they are nice and then watching his little mind choose that.

That is forcing the opposite gender on the kids.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I dated for some time a guy who could be considered somewhat effeminate. My husband sure thinks he is.

He is by far one of the most dangerous people I've ever met.

If you look into history, and look at those "snively effeminate" men, I think you'll find view isn't consistent with what those effeminate men have done, nor how wily and dangerous they've been.

Your hatred blinds you.

Originally posted by Konah
Being free to explore yourself or change your image is great and all, but I think that a child needs to have a firm foundation before anything is "explored". A boy who calls himself a princess and wears a pink dress is going to receive some flak and probably face serious issues if he is heterosexual (I'm not being crude here, read the article).

Sometimes parents take it too far, and I think that this is such a case. If the boy wants to be a princess or a girl wants to be a tomboy, super - but make sure they know they are a boy or a girl.

Precisely.

Look at all the grown-ups who are transgender or transvestite. They were brought up to dress in a gender-specific way, but now they are old enough to make their own decision, they choose to dress or act differently to the way that they were raised.

Once someone is old enough and responsible enough to make their own decision, then they can dress and act how they like. If a man wants to go around in a pink dress then, fine, he made that decision knowing the risks and dangers that the decision entails.

This is what's so cruel about this story. The children are innocent and naive to the way that the world works. A boy will pick out a pink dress because he likes it, without knowing the real-world implications of that decision. He has no idea that he will get bullied, ostracised and attacked because of the clothing that he innocently picks.

His ''parents'' do know that, though, which is what makes their actions so despicably selfish.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Agreed. A child hasn't been alive long enough to know their sexual preference or even what society has deemed gender specific. How can they even know what the apparent "constrains" of the norm are if they aren't even introduced to it.

It's like imagining a world in your head and thinking your raising your kids in it. I keep trying to imagine parents in some middle eastern country doing this. I mean they have the same brains as us so would naturally feel these things too right?

Or is it programming?

My comments stem wholly from my experiences with my children:

My children are loved. I never pushed my daughters into being girly, or my boy into being rough-and-tumble. As a result, my oldest girl wants to be a mechanic, my middle daughter wants to be a veterinarian, and my baby girl is a princess.

My son, who loved his hair, asked to get his first haircut at four, and wanted a mohawk. He got it. He loved it, he gels it up every chance he gets.

We dressed them all gender-neutral (nonspecific kid clothing) and they all self-selected their own gender and identity. My boy watches Care Bear Adventures and plays with my baby girl's My Little Ponies, then takes his talismans (Jackie Chan Adventures) and nukes them all.

Go figure.

Stupid experiment. boys will be boys. Nothing is going to come out of this. the kid will figure out what gender they are around 3 or 4 and gravitate towards being more like its peers. then when it gets older it will call its parents idiots for dressing it in pink as a baby( if its a boy).

I understand the whole "let it make its own decisions" thing, but seriously I can remember as a very young child thinking girls act different because they have "baginas".

reply to post by Aeons


LOL.

I don't ''hate'' effeminate ''men''. Hatred is a wasteful and unproductive emotion that is best reserved for an emergency where it's useful or needed. Such as an SHTF scenario.

I just don't think it would be a bad thing if they did perish in just such a scenario, and left the real men and their families to mop up.

So many ''men'' are practically in tears if they break a fingernail or stub their toe, so I very much doubt too many of these would be able to cope and survive in a life or death situation.

As it happens, I don't think a total societal breakdown is likely to happen any time soon, so we'll just have to hope that these ''men'' take a long, hard look at themselves, grow up and start acting like men rather than timid little boys.

The 5 year old kid likes wearing braids in his hair.

Well I've seen thousands of men that like braids in their hair, and as most of you know there are probably hundreds of variations of styles and combos of braids you can do, some females wear more often and some men, some both.

I wonder why it is this 5 year old kid happens to like the way that is most commonly worn by girls and not one of the hundreds of other styles? Does he even know the difference or did they braid his hair like a girl on purpose?