Hypothetical - What if Jesus Resurrection is true?

If Jesus resurrection did not happen and Jesus is still dead...
...or if he resuscitated and died later...
...then it means nothing...
...so if this is your position you have nothing to say here.

The purpose of this discussion is to explore the hypothetical question...
...if Jesus did resurrect from the dead what would that mean?


What we know from historical sources is that...
...Jesus was condemned by the Jewish High-Priest...
...sentence was handed down by Roman courts...
...and the execution was carried out by Romans soldiers.

Romans soldiers were experts at killing a man...
...and they were highly motivated to get it right...
...because if they made a mistake they would forfeit their own life...
...if the Romans released Jesus body for burial then Jesus was dead.

Jesus disciples denied Jesus, hid away and returned to their fishing...
...how do you explain the subsequent transformation of Jesus disciples...
...from cowards to men willing to face death themselves...
...without at least considering that the physical resurrection of Jesus actually happened?

The resurrection stories break in seven fundamental ways...
...from 1st century contempary and historical views of death and the afterlife...
...so either the resurrection stories are true...
...or you have to accept that a handful of fisherman produced a philosophical shift...
...that has survived 2000 years of human history.


What then are the implications...
...what would it mean if Jesus truely resurrected from the dead?

It would mean that Jesus and Cris Angel were friends back then...

It would mean that the current hight priest re-communicated him after ex-communicateing him thus raiseing him from the dead so to speak, just like lazarus.....just got to know yor doctrine.....not everything means what it says "so to speak".

Cheers!

reply to post by troubleshooter


I wonder it too. But you cannot not just break it down, using scripture as historical proven facts. Scripture has been engrained in our heads to be the only reliable truth, but if you can understand anything about cosmology, quantum physics, logic. . . God really did create a lot more than loving your neighbor as yourself. Physical reality is fascinating, but in the end I don't think it's truth.

I don't think people take any more thought into their own theology normally beyond what was instructed to them as a kid. Life is too complex, school, work, family . . . to have to worry about where you go after you die.

I'm coming to this realization, but on the other hand what if one of the thousands of religions on earth are correct? What if I don't know that knowledge and am condemned to an eternity of pain based upon my briefly limited life in the wrong time and place. To me, there's more to it than have to worry about that stuff.

I still go to church with my wife though, that story works for her. . . and what makes her happy makes me happy.

I believe it did happen and that's good enough for me. Everyone else needs to make up their own mind, no one can be forced to believe.

reply to post by troubleshooter


It means that Jesus is coming again soon, but only the father knows when that will be, check out Matthew -24, 25 I believe.. T hose are chapters in Matthew, new testament.

The end is coming , where will you go to?? Only way to heaven is to trust Jesus as your personal Savior, confess all your sins and acknowledge that Jesus is the only way to Heaven..

What we know from historical sources is that...
...Jesus was condemned by the Jewish High-Priest...
...sentence was handed down by Roman courts...
...and the execution was carried out by Romans soldiers.

I just wanted to let you know, I read in a tiny little white christian bible with a bunch of underlined red ink, that Jesus Christ died on the cross with a thief on his right and a thief on his left.

Maybe, because he stole something from God, or he was auctually a real liar...perhaps?

lol

reply to post by Ghillie007


I'm not insulting your intelligence, or even saying that I am right. But let's just break this down logically for a second.

Do you believe in any type of evolution? Not the creation side obviously, but the progression of man through a cave man to homo sapiens? I'm not proving it, or even trying. But does that idea entertain any thought to you?

To me it does. I think the earth is older than 10,000 years. You may too, and I'm not trying to sway it one way or the other. But if we take some scientific findings into our equation here, this earth is approximately 4.5 billion years old. The universe is even a lot older, like 14 billion.

If you don't want to entertain this thought please stop here. I'm not trying to convert anybody. I just want to play with the variables. I may be lucky enough to live 60, 80, maybe even 100 years. My lifespan is nothing compared to that of this dimensional reality for which we are a part of. But I'm starting to accept that this consciousness I have evolved in to, is going to continually evolve. I don't think that if my family gave me the right guide to life, and I follow the rules, I am granted an eternity of perfection instantly.

I believe in the teaching of Christ, I think the golden rule is the way to go. But the dogma created by the church to me is just population control, not a ticket to an afterlife in heaven.

imagine theres a door. people randomly go into this door which appears to lead to sheer nothingness. they go in for different reasons like getting sick or injured or just old. when they go in, they are never heard from again, ever. nobody ever comes back. for centuries this goes on. your grandmother, maybe a sibling, friends and strangers alike all waiting in line for the door to oblivion. and this scares the hell out of those who have not been called to the door. where do they go and what happens to them? then one day, a seemingly ordinary man goes through the door. and then walks back out. then he stands half in and half out, waving to everyone to illustrate that not only are we not completely destroyed upon walking through this door but reassuring us that theres way more on the other side of the door than there is on ours. this is J.C.

although i have read books that claimed we have focussed too heavily on the man's death and too little on his life.

It is interesting to note that a relatively small group of people, people who were scared, scattered, and scoffed at, a people dejected & defeated by the murder of their beloved teacher, could somehow come "alive" and turn the world upside down. And--as you have pointed out--their "spiritual philosophy" has stood the test of a couple of thousand years.

Throw in a far-fetched prophecy that the Jews would occupy their own land again (what were the chances of that?) and you've got a fairly good couple of reasons to consider that the bible is indeed what it claims to be.

And what book was the first to predict a NWO and a universal monetary system? That's right: The Holy Bible.

I know those last two haven't happened yet...but I hear a hefty sopranor tuning up somewhere.

S&F OP.

reply to post by troubleshooter

..without at least considering that the physical resurrection of Jesus actually happened?

You forgot one highly credible bit of history. Where did Christianity first blossom?

Jerusalem, est. population: 100,000

If Jesus's tomb was not empty that Sunday morning after Passover then it would have really been impossible to convince people Jesus was God in the flesh who rose Himself from the dead when they could walk less than 20 minutes to the garden tomb and see that the stone had not been rolled away and the tomb empty.

But the opposite is true. Despite intense persecution from the Jews Christianity spread like wildfire in Jerusalem, with over 10,000 converts by Pentecost 50 days later.

Best evidence #2:

Jesus's own half-brothers James and Jude, and His own mother worshipped Him as God after the resurrection. When Jews were fully aware that worshiping a false God would bet them capitol punishment and a free ticket to Sheol once they were dead. But James and Jude both became believers after Jesus's resurrection and worshipped their half-brother as God along with their mother Mary.

The problem with the what if...? is that the next question would be how would anyone know? Resurrection might be a good deal for Jesus, and maybe for a few followers to whom he appeared. But the event has a wider significance only insofar as a wider circle can rely on it with confidence as a historical fact.

For such a theatrical gesture, supposedly thousands of years in the planning and preparation, the performance was underwhelming. Pontius Pilate would surely have been interested had Jesus paid him another call. Meh, what am I thinking? Go to Rome, and tell Pilate's boss' boss that you're the new boss.

As much as I respect NOTurTypical, I don't think those considerations are substitutes for public revelation. If Jesus was placed in a tomb, then in the ordinary course of affairs, the body would be reduced to bones about a year later. Those bones would then be removed and placed in box for permanent storage elsewhere. The tomb, then, would be empty, according to plan and routine practice, having served its designed purpose.

The earliest written evidence that anybody preached a risen Jesus in Jerusalem comes from Paul's epistles two decades later. Paul has definitely picked up the "empty tomb" idea, and tells us that there was preaching, but he doesn't say when it started. By the time Paul is writing, he's right about the tomb. It is, and ought to be, empty.

The first "dated" claim of preaching The Way in Jerusalem is from Acts, which comes decades later than Paul, and quite probably after the fall of Jerusalem. There's little or no possibility that anybody could contradict what Luke writes about the timing of the tomb being scheduled to be emptied routinely and the first public claims that it was emptied exceptionally.

If Jesus' apparent return from the dead was a comfort for his family and his friends, then I'm all for that. If the experience improved their characters, then that's great, too. It is not obvious, however, that their grief-coping and guilt-coping mechanisms have anything to do with me.

Originally posted by mathematic
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

I'm coming to this realization, but on the other hand what if one of the thousands of religions on earth are correct? What if I don't know that knowledge and am condemned to an eternity of pain based upon my briefly limited life in the wrong time and place. To me, there's more to it than have to worry about that stuff.

Have you ever considered that there is no 'right' religion?

Jesus was not a religion but a person who it appears overcame death.

Religions formed from and around this history...
...but Jesus himself was anti-religion...
...the only time he is recorded as showing anger was toward the religious leaders.

Jesus was about liberating people from religious baggage not binding them to it.

Originally posted by Soldier of God
I believe it did happen and that's good enough for me. Everyone else needs to make up their own mind, no one can be forced to believe.

Good enough for me too.

Jesus is also recorded as saying "...whoever lives and believes in me shall never die."

So the implicates are that if he rose from the dead...
...he had the power to extend this ability to anyone who believed in him.