UFOS are utter BS.

You have my respect,sir, condicting research into these matters for 35 years; that's something, though I have to disagree with you.....my gut feeling tell me there are really UFO out there. Thats all, I don't do research and I'm not obsesssed with it because I know for sure that we cannot do anything even with real evidences....let alone pictures and videos. So whatever mean to happen will happen eventually.......it would be nice if it happened in my lifetime.

UFO's are not BS. They exist and many individuals, governments, and professional observers have seen, documented, photographed and recorded them. And yes, nearly all of them remain just as "UNIDENTIFIED" today as they were when they were first observed. "UNIDENTIFIED" means exactly as the term implies: they have not been positively identified. Period. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand? How much simpler can the term be made?

I can't instantly "identify" every bird that flies overhead. Few people can. That does not mean the bird does not exist. Only that I am unable to positively identify it.

Why is it so acceptable to ridicule and denigrate good folks who see something in the sky that they can not explain or positively identify? That does not mean the object is a figment of one's imagination or that it does not exist, and certainly does not deserve to be instantly labeled as "BS". It is not BS. The observer is not a liar. Is not that what the "BS" label implies? That is a terribly unfair, disingenuous, and cruel way to treat someone you've never met. Who are YOU to call someone else a liar? They saw SOMETHING! They are admitting in fact that they have not been able to identify it - thus it is coined, for lack of a better term, as "UNIDENTIFIED". If not that, then what do YOU suggest we call it???

Sometimes I imagine some alien race looking down at us from afar and just shaking their collective big heads in disgust. At us. We are so narcissistic, self-absorbed, hostile to each other, and hostile to our planet.

Are you so ego-maniacal that you feel you need to waste your time and that of others by going out of your way to tell them that an unusual looking object they saw in the sky that they are unable to identify makes them BS-spewing, simpletons and liars? Get over yourself.

Of course, you may make the argument that we have not been presented with irrefutable proof of ALIEN visitation to Earth. That is a valid claim. So be it. Then make that claim. But to call observers liars simply because you can't seem to discern the literal interpretation of a simple single acronym says a lot more about you than it does the observer.

Leave people alone. Let them believe what they want. Their theory is as good as yours. If they want to believe, let them. If they choose to disbelieve, that is fine also. Each is entitled, equally, to their beliefs since neither you, nor them, can prove their belief to the rest of us one or another.

UFO's are "BS"? Prove it. You can not. Alien visitation is real? This also,as yet, can not be proven. So we have only a stalemate. The fallacy in your premise, OP, is that you invalidate your own conclusion by making the statement in the first place. Once we have proof, if ever, one way or the other -THEN you can label one or the other "BS". Until then - any observer has as legitimate claim to their 'beliefs' as you do. No more. No less.

reply to post by Outrageo


DAMN dude.....

Originally posted by openminded2011
After studying the phenomena for over 35 years, reading countless books, watching dozens of documentaries, a myriad of videos, I have reached the conclusion that they do not exist.

That depends on what direction you approached the phenomena. It also depends a lot upon how you define "real".

After studying the phenomena for over 35 years, reading countless books, watching dozens of documentaries, a myriad of videos, I have reached the conclusion that they do not exist

I have to wonder what you studied for 35 years.....

I am in my late 20's and have been studying UFOs for atleast 5 years minus the interest I had when I was a kid.

And in that short amount of time I came to the conclusion that they absolutely exist beyond a shadow of a doubt.

One thing I may have that you don't is the experience of seeing UFOs with my own eyes. That alone gives a person the psychological ability to be more open minded than ever before.

As the poster above showed in pictures and a few other good links ..... look to History and it all starts to make sense.

Also....even if every UFO is government made...then our own Human race has split and there are humans operating these highly advanced spacecraft possibly affecting the way those Humans are evolving.....

Then we have just as big of an issue on our hands.

Imagine studying something for 35 years and coming away with absolutely nothing........what a waste!

Originally posted by openminded2011
UFOS are utter BS
After studying the phenomena for over 35 years, reading countless books, watching dozens of documentaries, a myriad of videos, I have reached the conclusion that they do not exist.

Hi openminded2011.
Really sorry to see that despite you are so openminded, it took you 35 years of your live to come finally to the conclusion after reading countless books, watching dozens of documentaries, a myriad of videos, that UFOs are utter BS, so that they do not exist, while it is in fact already common knowledge now that UFOs do exist.

Listen for instance to what Michio Kaku said about that in the video in Kandinsky’s thread.

“Michio Kaku comments UFOs and Leslie Kean's book”

He said amongst other very interested things there that 95 % of the reported UFOs are easily explained away, but that the rest, those other 5% of reported UFOs gives even him the willies.
He said that those 5% remained totally unexplained, which means to me then that they are real UFOs.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So UFO’s/UAP's or whatever you want to call them, do exist, no question about that, but the big question is, do some of those reported 5% UFOs belong to Extraterrestrial visitors?

And I did come to the conclusion after studying the phenomena for over 40 years, reading also many books and articles, watching also dozens of documentaries and videos, even listen to dozens of interviews, that UFO’s/UAP's do exist, and not only that, but that some of them cannot be other then crafts belonging to Extraterrestrial intelligences.

For those of you who claim there has not been one shred of proof, I ask you to broaden your minds a bit - use logic, instead of assuming you MUST have an alien artifact in hand, or a clear video of a UFO hovering over someone's house, before you believe.

Eyewitness testimony can be very convincing. Try reading up on the cases that have merit, instead of watching youtube videos and making your conclusions from them.

I bumped a thread about the Tehran UFO incident in 1976. If you really want to test your skeptical skills, go debunk that case. Or explain it. One issue is that after a case like that, too many people sit on the fence. They are afraid to say "That's not from around here." Skeptics in particular simply ignore these cases - which I don't really get to be honest. Deal with the case. Don't ignore it; stop viewing the UFO world through skeptic-tinted glasses.

Rebuttal....

1.with over 30 years of home video cameras and millions of people using them worldwide, no one has to date gotten a clear, concise, and conclusive video of a UFO other than fuzzy blurry or inconclusive footage. Most are easily explained away.

You state that "most" are easily explained away. However, there are still many videos and photos that cannot be so easily dismissed, even by military studies convened to do just that, explain them. During Grudge, Sign, Bluebook, Condon Committee, etc. there were still unexplained cases.

2. There is a total lack of conclusive incontrovertible physical evidence. If an alien race has been visiting Earth for so many years, they would have left something here that can conclusively be linked to their presence.

I'm sure there was a lack of proof (except videos and photos) of stealth aircraft, before it was revealed to the public as well. So, does this mean stealth aircraft didn't exist until they were made public?

3. There isn't a world government somewhere that has come forth to the UN and presented proof of their existence.

If there had, then it wouldn't be up for debate anymore, and would be a known fact. So, for you to believe anything, it must be right in front of you, or presented by a government? Do you believe Bin Laden was killed when Obama said he was? Governments never lie right? I mean, it's not like they tried to say that a test 5 years after Roswell was why people remember bodies, right?

4. There has never been a mass sighting by tens of thousands of people over a major city.If the phenomena has been around for such a long time, at some point this would have happened during the 20th century. It hasn't.

The residents of LA in 1942 would beg to differ. As would many in Phoenix, for the 8pm event. (not the 10pm one on the videos).

5. Most if not all proponents of the UFO phenomena have an agenda, ie a website, book sales, the lecture circuit etc. There are few people doing pure research who arent promoting a book of some kind.

I've never tried to sell a book or video, etc. Besides, what's wrong with actually getting something back for doing such research? No such thing as a free lunch and all that.

Originally posted by ReconX

Originally posted by anti72

Originally posted by wlasikiewicz
reply to post by openminded2011

 

If UFOs were BS then why are they recorded throughout history? they are drawn in paintings, on structures and even in the prymids of egypt.

sorry, but this is pure speculation. nothing of that is true..all debunked.

cheers

Prove to me that it's debunked, (not the paintings of UFO's in the pyramids because this is clearly not true), but prove to me that it has been debunked that UFO's have been recorded throughout history!

You have no chance because your wrong!!!

edit on 8-6-2011 by ReconX because: (no reason given)

´´prove´´ yourself that ufos and aliens exist..
Yee, is this childish..

there is no proof.

what would you say if ´aliens´ are in fact demons, not extraterrestial.

Originally posted by ReconX
Imagine studying something for 35 years and coming away with absolutely nothing........what a waste!

yes, this must be a stunning job.

hanging 35 years over suspicious fotos and ´documents´..and interpret art as ufos in old pictures..

cheers

Originally posted by fleabit
For those of you who claim there has not been one shred of proof, I ask you to broaden your minds a bit - use logic, instead of assuming you MUST have an alien artifact in hand [etc....etc...]

Eyewitness testimony can be very convincing.

Meaning no disrespect whatsoever...

But eyewitness testimony, as convincing as it may sound to you, is NOT proof. Please understand that many of us that you so quickly and offhandedly want to label as 'skeptics' and worse are just as hopeful and desirous of confirmation as you, if not more so.

However, as has been repeated off-times within the hallowed halls of ATS: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Second-hand here-say from eyewitnesses, credible and convincing as such witnesses may be, is not extraordinary evidence. Photos, even clear and convincing ones, also, is NOT extraordinary evidence.

I know this frustrates you and many others. You are mad as hell that we just won't accept what appears to you to be as unambiguous, "logical", and quite convincing validation of your beliefs. I can appreciate that. But it still is not proof.

What WOULD be acceptable as proof? Consider the scientific and academic community worldwide in any endeavor, any discipline of inquiry of your choosing. For ANY claim to be substantiated it must meet a few simple tests. For one thing, the claim must be repeatable. An eye-witness testimony, even one from a scientist-pilot-astronaut-statesman-cosmologist-seer is worthless if he or she can only "talk" about what they observed rather than produce it again for others to observe in kind. Greer and like company come to mind.

The claim must also be able to be measured and confirmed in a controlled setting by your peers. No claim in nuclear physics, medicine, biology, astronomy, or any other scientific field will get an ounce of attention if your fellow physicists, biologists, what-have-you are not allowed or are otherwise unable to observe and measure the same claim or experiment that you have claimed to have observed.

I hope you appreciate that this is not meant to demean or denigrate anyone or even any claim made by anyone. It is just that if there is nothing for professionals to observe or measure then that claim can not be substantiated with sufficient confidence to be declared as "truth" or "fact". It does not mean the claim is untrue, perhaps it very well may be. It simply can not be declared as true and factual until such time as it is universally accepted as so by the global expert community in the respective field.

This is why one can not claim that, for example, that a "miracle" cure for cancer is available by eating some rainforest bug or berry - if the bug or berry can not be found again or the ingestion of same does not regularly cure cancer under controlled conditions by independent researchers. The same goes for ANY medical or pharmaceutical claim.

Similarly, as much as we are 'convinced' that the galaxy may be teeming with life and myriad civilizations, and indeed many groups around the world are searching feverishly for factual, repeatable, evidence to support the same, until such conjecture is validated worldwide, we must be satisfied with taking little baby steps of observing other solar systems, then giant gas planets around such systems, followed by smaller terrestrial planets, and then, if we are lucky, perhaps some evidence of carbon, oxygen, water, and so on - all of which MUST be able to be observed and measured by other scientists before we can take the next steps, make the next claim; life, alien life, sentient alien beings, and so on.

You see, it is not that we are skeptical or that we don't "want to believe". Far from it. On the contrary, we very much believe, and we desperately research and study and share and research some more, constantly seeking tiny bits of corroboration that will finally help the rest of you that seem to be completely satisfied with fuzzy lights and 'witnesses' to unusual events that somehow the rest of us are never able to see for ourselves.

One of the reasons the scientific and academic community (of which I am part) can never seem to get anyone to take this subject seriously (much less obtain any funding to do so) is because there never seems to be anything for us to collectively examine and measure.

Aliens exist? Great! bring us one. You can't? Oh. That's too bad. Then there is nothing for us to study. The government has them? Great! Let us have a look for ourselves! Can't do that? Oh. That's too bad. Flying Saucers are ubiquitous? Fantastic! Bring us one. You can't? Oh. *sigh*. Can you then point to where we might go and observe one? Perhaps even (gasp) touch one for ourselves? No? Oh well - nothing for us to do then. The Government has them, you say? Great! Who can we call to arrange for a visit, an observation, a meeting of any kind that just a few of us can attend so we can at least discuss the topic among experts in metallurgy, propulsion, aerodynamics, energy, etc. You can't do that? Why not? Oh yeah - it's a "secret". Ok, well, then there is nothing for us to do, I guess.

So, you have nothing for us to look at, nothing for us to touch or examine, nothing to measure - nothing. And I'm to go and ask for funding so I can help you prove that all this 'nothingness' exists? It can't be done.

"Hope" and "Belief" are wonderful things. Humanity and "progress" (depending on how you perceive such things) would not be possible without it. But it is not proof. Yes, my friends, we do need the artifact in hand...

I have hope. I believe. I just don't have proof...

But I WILL continue searching... for you, for me, for all of us.

Originally posted by anti72

Originally posted by ReconX

Originally posted by anti72

Originally posted by wlasikiewicz
reply to post by openminded2011

 

If UFOs were BS then why are they recorded throughout history? they are drawn in paintings, on structures and even in the prymids of egypt.

sorry, but this is pure speculation. nothing of that is true..all debunked.

cheers

Prove to me that it's debunked, (not the paintings of UFO's in the pyramids because this is clearly not true), but prove to me that it has been debunked that UFO's have been recorded throughout history!

You have no chance because your wrong!!!

edit on 8-6-2011 by ReconX because: (no reason given)

´´prove´´ yourself that ufos and aliens exist..
Yee, is this childish..

there is no proof.

what would you say if ´aliens´ are in fact demons, not extraterrestial.

edit on 10-6- by anti72 because: (no reason given)

I have nothing to prove, I'm not the one making the claims
He said the UFO reports throughout history had been debunked, so i want proof!

Aliens are not Demons. I had a thread on this and the people who were debating with me just stopped because they had no evidence. I can post it for you if you like.

Meaning no disrespect whatsoever...

But eyewitness testimony, as convincing as it may sound to you, is NOT proof. Please understand that many of us that you so quickly and offhandedly want to label as 'skeptics' and worse are just as hopeful and desirous of confirmation as you, if not more so.

However, as has been repeated off-times within the hallowed halls of ATS: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Second-hand here-say from eyewitnesses, credible and convincing as such witnesses may be, is not extraordinary evidence. Photos, even clear and convincing ones, also, is NOT extraordinary evidence.

I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I understand eyewitness testimony is not extroidinary evidence, but it is still evidence none the less, would you agree? It certainly seems to be enough to convict fellow humans, even to life sentences in prison. It can destroy companies, and cause wars and revolutions. I don't think it should be summarily dismissed.

I can certainly understand the scientific communties desire for hard evidence. I agree - without it, there isn't much to study. But I am not talking about garnering the approval of the scientific community, but rather just overcoming some of the skeptical barriers put in place by people who simply refuse to believe on principle.

I understand common sense isn't a very scientific angle - but I use that quite a bit when going over UFO stories. I am actually quite skeptical of most sightings myself. As I was pointing out, the Tehran sighting: what do YOU think it was?

I look at that case like this: It wasn't natural. It was a costructed aircraft of some type. It was quite advanced, as it performed maneuvars the jets certainly couldn't replicate. This means it originated at a minimum, from a well developed country. That narrows it down to less than five countries it could have even have orginated from. Then I consider: do I really feel that any country had the technology at that point (in 1976), to perform the sort of maneuvars that object exibited? Imo, no. In fact, we don't have the technology NOW to do what it was witnessed doing. Nor do I feel that these countries would have flown such an aircraft over enemy soil. It makes little sense to take cutting edge technology, and risk handing it directly to the enemy simply to toy with them.

Flight tower personnel, a General, civilians and two pilots witnessed this craft. It was able to move and affect onboard equipment unlike anything we've seen before (or since). I realize they didn't capture it. They didn't get a good video. All they have are their reports.

Not good enough for scientific study, I get that. But not as a scientist (and you may not be able to relate, as you are), but simply as a human with a functioning and reasoning brain, what possible conclusion can a skeptic come up with for this sighting?

I was highly amused by the explanation by Klass. Imo, the ultimate example of a skeptic who is not a skeptic, but a debunker who refuses to believe, no matter what evidence comes to light. His opinion that two jet pilots chased Jupitor, which cooincided with equipment failure, mistaken radar returns and witnesses on the ground making mistaken identity, I found laughable.

In lieu of "hard" evidence.. for those who claim to be skeptics.. how much evidence will suffice?

reply to post by Xen0m0rpH


What is the Purpose of the Light on The Bottom?

The person who started this thread has only made two or so post on this 10 plus page of replies. It seems to me the person who created this thread just wanted to stir things up and create some drama. It seems to me this person just want to create a thread that gets popular while we argue the title of this 10 plus page thread: "UFOs are Utter BS"

reply to post by TruthWarrior



I was thinking the same thing!
Personally I think he is lying.

Originally posted by openminded2011After studying the phenomena for over 35 years, reading countless books, watching dozens of documentaries, a myriad of videos, I have reached the conclusion that they do not exist.

Boy, you sure live up to your username ...

Originally posted by openminded2011
1.with over 30 years of home video cameras and millions of people using them worldwide, no one has to date gotten a clear, concise, and conclusive video of a UFO other than fuzzy blurry or inconclusive footage.

Sure they have. The good tapes are all locked in government vaults. We have many accounts with multiple eyewitnesses in the military and aviation industry. Many people pressured into silence. All that means nothing to you? You've just proven you're not open to evidence, this thread is pointless just like the other ones.

Originally posted by openminded2011
2. There is a total lack of conclusive incontrovertible physical evidence. If an alien race has been visiting Earth for so many years, they would have left something here that can conclusively be linked to their presence.

1.) Megaliths
2.) What makes you an authority on alien psychology, the psychology of creatures you claim don't exist? Where did you receive these credentials?

Originally posted by openminded2011
3. There isn't a world government somewhere that has come forth to the UN and presented proof of their existence.

And since governments like nothing more than telling their populace and the world populace terrifying info about things they can't control, you've just proven your point brilliantly. In other news, TEPCO has just opened their records on all of the fukushima radiation oh wait no.

Originally posted by openminded2011
4. There has never been a mass sighting by tens of thousands of people over a major city.If the phenomena has been around for such a long time, at some point this would have happened during the 20th century. It hasn't.

Yeah, you're trolling, I'm done reading.

The Phoenix lights was a mass sighting.. Just read the new book from Leslie Kean! Just read it, its one of the best UFO books out there!!