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SOCIAL: Border security and Immigration

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posted on Aug, 3 2004 @ 11:45 PM
I feel that it is both possible, and neccessary for us to secure our borders, while ensuring that leagal immigration and trade is still possible. So many things flow across our borders illeagally everyday, including people.


Our borders can be physically secured to ensure that we are protected from smuggling, and illeagal immigration. Securing these borders is also an integral part of providing security against terrorism. There are many possible facets to securing the border, from physical barriers such as walls, to human deterents such as an enlarged border to patrol or National Guard.

Perhaps the best solution is a combination of the above. The solution to securing our border, no matter which one is chosen, will not only provide us with better security, but enacting it will also create a huge number of new jobs.

Hows that for killing two birds with one stone?

[edit on 8/4/2004 by phreak_of_nature]

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:06 AM
When politics became involved to try and prevent one side from getting the Hispanic vote, it blurred the vision of how to deal with the nation's border and immigration problem. I will try and give you an assessment and provide a clear vision on what should be done to solve this problem.

This is a free country, one with laws to keep order among our citizens. In order for us to maintain our freedoms, these laws must be enforced. While we are the Land of Opportunity, to be able to participate in the opportunities, one must follow our immigration laws, no one should be trying to prevent legal immigration, it is the violaters of these laws who should be the focus of our effort. If one can gain access to the country by breaking the law, and allowed to remain, how can you expect the illegals to respect to ANY law this country has in place? The first thing immigrants must respect is the law of the land. Freedom without laws is Anarchy, hopefully we can agree this is not a viable option.

Now, how to tackle the problem?

The first and foremost, must be a serious clamp down on our borders at all points of possible entry. Some say put up a wall, others say it is impossible, I say it is possible and building a wall is not necessary. Illegal border crossings are simply a problem which has to be curtailed if anyone hopes our efforts to prevent further foreign terrorists from attacking the homeland, will succeed. How can you claim any progress in tracking down suspects if they have the ability to come in or leave at their pleasure?

Increase funding for the Border Patrol and Coast Guard immediately so more officers can be hired, and implement more training on the use of surveillence apparatus, like the UAV's which have started to be utilized. Cameras, listening devices, sensors etc could help identify illegal crossings. One thing that is overlooked is the formation of civil defense volunteers who could assist and help the border patrols while changes are implemented. It was not a problem for our past generations to help in the protection of our borders, use WWII for reference, if you organize a large enough group of volunteers to watch the borders and coasts, it could amount to only a few hours per person per week to ensure that illegal crossings are limited. Any use of the National Guard would be temporary until Border Patrol officers and/or Civil Defense patrols could handle the mission. Remember this is a law enforcement issue not a military mission, armed conflict should not be needed especially if our neighbors do their part on their side of the border. Civil Defense patrols would merely be eyes and ears and report violations via radio or telephonic means, no confrontation should be allowed.

Now it must be stated that we must demand cooperation from our border countries to respect our position on illegal immigration, any position by those countries which threatens or prevents our ability to prevent the crossings or violates our immigration policy should be met with condemnation and possible sanctions. This is more directed towards the Mexican government who for years have done little to prevent the illegal crossings. Some say that this will cause a backlash from the Hispanic community, and this could occur, but it is in ALL American's interests to secure our borders and actively enforce our immigration laws. Once the Mexican government respects the US's right to enforce immigration laws, the sooner the Mexican people will respect it.

Once the borders are secured, the illegals already in the country will need to be dealt with. Efforts are already in place to gather up the illegals, but what to do when you gather them up? I say, it depends, those who have committed crimes in addition to being here illegally, should be deported immediately to their country of origin. Others who are already here and are trying to become part of the fabric of America, working hard and generally putting forth an effort to become a productive citizen, these should have an opportunity to process through the INS legally and a set time to accomplish this put in place. Failure to take this chance to become legal would result in deportation.

numerous sp:ed

[edit on 8/4/04 by JacKatMtn]

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:55 AM
while legal immigration has to continue we need to stop people from entering this countyr illegally. 1,500 people a day cross the us/mexican border illegally, including a lot of OTMs (other than mexicans). If just .1% of those who cross the border illegally are terrorists, we have nearly 550 terrorists entering the country every year. That's a risk that can't be taken.

I think that the solution would be to increase the budgets and manpower of the border patrol and the coast guard, as well as use the national guard to protect the borders.

I would make use of Predator UAVS and the new blimp in developement for the Dep. of Homeland Security to patrol the skies to alert border patrol if anyone is crossing. I would construct a gate over the Rio Grande that prevented any boat from passing w/o permission, and station BP and NG within 15 minutes of any location on the mexican border.

I would work for cooperation and even a possible merger with the Canadian coast guard to help sure up our other 3 borders. Canada has proved willing to help stop illegal immigrants while mexico is encouraging it.

Finally, any illegal who is proven to be a supporter of La Raza Unida, Atzlan or any other group looking to cause harm to the US would be arrested and deported. Those illegally in the country who support these groups pose a threat and do not have the constitutional protection of a US citizen or legal immigrant.

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 12:28 PM

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
When politics became involved to try and prevent one side from getting the Hispanic vote,

OK this sir I must Dispute.... there is no possible way that we are preventing LEGAL aliens from voting just Illegal ones why should we let MEXICAN citizens decide our President and in turn our policy.....Phreak is right the National guard is needed....I think that we need to withdraw at a MINIMUM our national guard from Iraq.....The stated mission of the NATIONAL guard is to protect the homeland aka OUR BORDERS....And this is not to just protect us from illegal Immigration but like Phreak said from Terrorism....If Mexican Citizen can find ways in you can bet A terrorist can..My big fear would be are we to late?

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Truth_Hunter_1976

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
When politics became involved to try and prevent one side from getting the Hispanic vote,

OK this sir I must Dispute.... there is no possible way that we are preventing LEGAL aliens from voting just Illegal ones why should we let MEXICAN citizens decide our President and in turn our policy.....

You misunderstood my meaning. There are a large amount of Legal Hispanic voters who could react to a policy limiting the illegal crossings of the Mexican border. While it is not fact that all legal Hispanic voters would react this way at the polls, the political parties steering clear of this issue makes it look like they consider it as an issue which would sway that vote.

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 03:15 PM
... And argue with myself. Would the Posse Comitatus Act prevent us from using the National Guard to defend our borders?

Some may interrupret that act to say that our military may not undertake any mission on American soil. If that is correct, then the National Guard being called out for protests at Kent State in Ohio was an illegal act. Using the National Guard to help South Florida recover after huricanne Andrew was an illegal act. Using the National Guard to help secure New York City, and participate in the rescue effort after 9-11 was an illegal act.

Are these truly the only uses for our National Guard, or can they be used to guard our nation?

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 04:01 PM
I have found this site with info on your question and posting it here for reference of all.

United States National Guard

The National Guard while under state command is not subject to the Posse Comitatus Act and can engage in law enforcement activities. These law enforcement powers generally disappear when the National Guard is Federalized.

I am still going to review and look for further references.

posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 04:02 PM

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
... And argue with myself. Would the Posse Comitatus Act prevent us from using the National Guard to defend our borders?

No. I am pretty sure the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard.

posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:28 PM
I think it might be better to address the issue from the angle of: "What jobs are the illegal immigrants taking and what can we do to ensure that these jobs are available only to US citizens?"

Perhaps a concerted effort by farmers to recruit high school students to pick the crops and so forth? An aggressive push in schools to encourage people to become janitors and maids? Business workshops on mowing lawns and digging ditches for profit?

Although that's half tongue-in-cheek, I should point out that the reason the Mexicans are coming north is that there's a demand for these jobs and it doesn't seem like any Americans want to fill them. If there are no jobs here for them, then they will quit coming for that purpose.

So what will you do to fill those jobs that are being filled by illegals so that the illegals won't bother to come any more.

posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:39 PM
Another job you didn't mention was drug smuggler.

Are we to teach high schoolers how to pack a condom of coke in their rectum?
Also said half tongue in check. But seriously, the drug trade is another problem that a secure border will help stimy. A secure border will also stop stolen vehicles from being transported over the border. Only the stolen vehicles go from the US side to the Mexican side.

My point is there are more then just people flowing illegally across the border, and the traffic goes both ways.

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