To all. Why can there be no questioning of Islam here?

I have repeatedly tried to make intelligent, well written posts on Islam and the dangers of it's political/social system of belief. Everytime I get moderated as being"insulting and negative" . So does that mean ATS is restricting our speech on criticizing Islam? What are they fearing?

I backed up my reasoning with the Qur'an, Hadith, Islamic Scholars, and history as wee as current events yet they see it as baseless hate! I sincerely hope that this topic can be discussed in a rational manner because I feel the fate of the free world depends on it. Most people do not even know what Islam is about, including many "moderate" Muslims. Most Muslims have no idea what the qur'an says.. they just recite it in Arabic.

So why the censorship of scrutinizing Islam? It is what we all should learn about and knowledge is power.

reply to post by IamBoon


Perhaps the mods are just realizing the danger of your posts!

Same reason it isn't allowed anywhere. There are a billion of them and even if only 1% decided to take offense and cut off someone's head that would still be 10 million madmen (and women) screaming for your death.

Not sure what your posts contained but Ive seen plenty of pro/anti everything threads in here to believe that ATS is most likely not biased towards anyone.

Try starting a thread and making sure theres nothing against the T&Cs and if it gets shut down ask the MOD who does it for specific details on what was offensive.
After the response rewrite it so it doesnt contain the offensive part and repost.

If it still happens after 2 shutdowns followed by 2 rewrites then Ill believe the site is biased.

Personally I cant think of anything you could write that could be more offensive than some of the cr@p Ive already seen on here.

Cheers

reply to post by IamBoon


There is a thread about Islam every few days on here, many of which descend into tirades of baseless accusations and insults.

There is nothing dangerous about Islam and it is a largely peaceful religion, provided people actually learn about it properly instead of just reading one or two quotes out of context which could be interpreted differently and subsequently thinking they are experts on the entire religion. What are your specific concerns and I'd be more than happy to answer them?

Because it's impossible to discuss it without getting into deeply troubled waters. Other people are not as reasonable as you are, I don't care how carefully you try not to step on toes. Islam sets off murderous impulses in non-islamists. And it's no help to meekly proclaim, "But, see, it says right here, blahblahblah..."

Murderous impulses, I tellya. Not worth it....

Originally posted by lifeissacred
reply to post by IamBoon

 

Theres a thread about Islam every few days on here, many of which descend into tirades of baseless accusations and insults.

There is nothing dangerous about Islam and it is a largely peaceful religion, provided people actually learn about it properly instead of just reading one or two quotes out of context which could be interpreted differently and subsequently thinking they are experts on the entire religion. What are your specific concerns and I'd be more than happy to answer them?

Umm, I know Islam very well and it is the context that is Scary. To say there is nothing dangerous about Islam is very worrying to me. Learning it properly is what is wrong... Sharia Law and subjugation of all who do not bow before Allah. That is Islam. I have many concerns but I doubt you can quell any of them as the problem lies in Islam itself. I used to be Muslim so I know what"moderates" think.

Do you see Islam as a political and social system of law that is inseperable from personal worship? Your answer to this question will prove how much you may think you know about Islam! Thanks in advance for you help sir.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


It is worth it...... I do not care to tread carefully I present the evidence and facts because it is my duty as a free-thinking and peace loving human! If we all just sit Idly back and not say anything for fear of perseution then what does that say about the subject being talked about?

Idsn't that what Europe and America did during WW2? Just wait and hope the problem goes away?

reply to post by IamBoon

 

subjugation of all who do not bow before Allah.

Here in lies your first mistake. Subjugation is expressly forbidden in the Quran. Forcing people to adhere to Islam is forbidden since only those who willingly revert to Islam are considered Muslims.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256]

Islam was historically extremely tolerant of other cultures and religions. This is shown time and time again throughout history where people actually fled to Islamic nations to avoid persecution, after the Spanish expelled the Jews for example they fled to Morocco and various parts of the Islamic world where they were treated as equals (aside from a tax they paid as they were exempt from military service or Zakat).

reply to post by IamBoon


Maybe you're not being all that reasonable...or maybe other people aren't being that reasonable and the mods realize that it's just becoming a poo-flinging contest and that's not what ATS is for.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Ex_CT2

 

It is worth it...... I do not care to tread carefully I present the evidence and facts because it is my duty as a free-thinking and peace loving human! If we all just sit Idly back and not say anything for fear of perseution then what does that say about the subject being talked about?

Idsn't that what Europe and America did during WW2? Just wait and hope the problem goes away?

Oh. I didn't read your original post thoroughly enough. Well. Do whatever you think is best. No skin off my arse either way. But you basically asked why your threads get closed. 'Cause people go insane when discussing religion--of whatever stripe. Next thing you know, your nice peaceful site with its nice fair T&C is being held up as an example of religious intolerance and racism. Nobody wants that....

reply to post by dbates


When discussing Islam it is Impossible to separate the control aspect from the personal aspect. It is all encompassing. The spiritual belief is directly tied to the law (Qur'anis mostly law). It has to do with creed and belief that stem from this law and what the law says on how Islam should be implemented. My previous posts went into subjugation of people of unbelief and the main purpose and goals that Islam propagates. From Qur'anic verses to Hadith and from history as well as situations we have now.

For example, many Muslims tell those who do not know that the word Islam means "peace" when in fact it means"submission or surrender". This is chicanery because most moderates know otherwise! I was taught this at my own masjid. It is part of Jihad and to them Islam does mean peace, because once Sharia Law and Islam become prevalent in society and subjugates all others it is peace to Muslims.

reply to post by lifeissacred


There is no compulsion in religion yet in warfare you have to give the unbeliever the choice between Islam and death.... And subjugation means to be ruled over... not converted. Sharia Law ,by authority of the Qur'an can be implemented forcefully. THere is a huge difference.

Yes there were some saving graces in teh Ottoman Empire. There were many instances of equality in certain places. THere were many more of inequality though. A non-Muslim was not allowed to congregate or look at a Muslim woman, had to move from his seat for a Muslim, could not eat with Muslims, could not practice religion outside of Islam and had many churches and Synagogues destroyed. This is perscribed in Hadith and the Qur'an Also.

The Qur'an... as you know is separated by Medina verse and Mecca Verses, And whatever verse came later was the one to be obeyed by Qur'an interpretation. It really sucks that the peaceful verses came before Islams war stage because most of the peaceful verses are muted out by what teh Qur'an says is "better more applicable verses."

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Yet in every other thread it is a poo flinging contest! Threads on Christianity are such as most scripture is written as divinely inspred text.

The Qur'an is taken as text that is direct from God given to the Prophet Muhammad from Gabrielle(angel). It is infallible and for all time. I am very reasonable, but I have also done a lot of research into the subject as well.


I know that a lot of Muslims do not think the way more fundamentalist types do. They also cannot cry out against it because it is the word of Allah and the must defend their brothers and sisters of the faith.

reply to post by IamBoon


There are poo-flinging contests and then there are the real poo-flinging contests. And you know what I mean. There's a difference between a healthy discussion between atheists and Christians and then some of the downright filth you get spewed in some threads that address Islam. Why? Well...Christians love to dog pile on the defenseless enemy in some cases. Nobody is going to bother defending it except for the few Muslims that aren't turned off by the general anti-Muslim sentiment on ATS.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by lifeissacred

 

There is no compulsion in religion yet in warfare you have to give the unbeliever the choice between Islam and death.... And subjugation means to be ruled over... not converted. Sharia Law ,by authority of the Qur'an can be implemented forcefully. THere is a huge difference.

Sharia law is supposed to apply only to the Muslims, in historic Islamic societies non-Muslim communities had their own courts and laws.

In warfare Muslims are permitted to fight only until the opposing side ceases hostilities.

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not aggressors. [2:190]

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just. [60:8]

Any quotes about warfare in the Quran are related to self-defence (if you know the history of Islam you'll know that the Muslims were forbidden to fight back against their persecutors until they were faced with total war from the Meccan tribes) and are usually to do with these battles the Muslims faced after the Hijrah.

Except for those who reach a people between whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and did not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a way against them. [4:90]

Offensive, aggressive actions are not supported.

But if the enemy incline towards peace, then you also incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that hears and knows (all things). [8:61]

subjugation & compulsion are synonymous terms and it's metaphorically the same.

Here's an interesting content

reply to post by IamBoon


I'm not sure what your issue is. You haven't had a post removed in nearly a year, and that one had nothing to do with Islam. There have been no threads by you deleted for at least a month, and that's as far back as I checked. Anytime a thread is deleted or any action is taken, the member receives at least an auto-generated U2U with an invitation to make an inquiry if further explanation is needed.

So, what's the problem, again?

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by dbates
For example, many Muslims tell those who do not know that the word Islam means "peace" when in fact it means"submission or surrender".

Well, take that and run with it. One common mistake is to think you have to discuss the entire topic at once. You can pick a single aspect of your topic and analyze that part separate from the rest of the topic. Look we have chicken fried steak, potatoes, gravy, green beans, and a buttery roll on my plate. However at the moment I want to discuss the aspect of the gravy and the peppery flakes that are floating in it. We can get to the potatoes and steak later.

(I'm so hungry atm)