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ETHICS: Lobbyist-Special Interest Groups

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posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
I similarly see the need for Workers Unions and Small Business Interests to organize and make themselves heard. Again, I stress the idea that anyone organizing and giving of their own free will should be allowed to do so and have a voice.

Unfortunately, unions leaders are currently free to use dues to support political parties and candidates that the union faithful would not want supported and democrats have successfully blocked any change to that so far. The only ways to stop your money from being used to support a candidate that you didnt like is to pick a new career or run for local office.

Originally posted by RANT
democrats.org

Not exactly a source without reason to spin statisticsand as anyone knows its very easy to spin statistics.

Originally posted by RANT
The special evil I see in the purchased favors of a lobby like Pharmaceuticals is I was forced to contribute to that $35 million gift to the GOP. We all were.

Buy generic.unlike with unions then you wouldnt be supporting this practice.




posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 06:48 AM
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Again, BT, I find it amusing that I heard nothing like this from you during the Clinton administration; a man who blatantly rented out the Licoln bedroom for his own benefit. Damn, don't you feel like a hypocrit with your rock-throwing?

Special interest groups, lobbyists, they all represent some group of folks, and who are any of us to say that any of us should be silenced? I don't care who you are, you have your own pet projects, and you, too, will be silenced. For some, it would be the NRA, for the communists, it would be Handgun Control, Inc. What do I have to do, spell it out for you? Draw you a picture? (Last sentence should be said in one's head using a John Wayne impersonation)



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 06:50 AM
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By the way, Rant, if it makes you feel any better, the AFL-CIO is more than happy to donate some of my hard-earned money to the communistic Democrats. I assure you, that is totally against my desires. Sounds like we are getting equally screwed, which should make all the socialists happy, huh?



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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The main problem I have with outlawing Lobbiests is it would in effect be the last nail in the coffin of freedom of speech. Even those I would beat like a dog on the street if I met them deserve their say in our form of Government.

The cure would be worse than the disease.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 12:03 PM
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Two things.

1) Let's keep this section (Campaign 2004) clean guys. This has been a nice bastion away from the cat call conversations out there.

2) I think we are looking at it the wrong way (aside from the Libertarian view that is). While I agree that lobbying has become a nasty game (i.e. MADD), I do not think MORE laws will fix it. As a matter of fact, I think that this country has become bogged down with extranious laws, departments, commitees, etc.

If we (like Amuk said) cut the size of the US government down by even 50%, while allowing for an audit but the Supreme Court to annex exsisting laws that are unneeded it would be great for the economy (taxation would be cut dramatically) and for social and governmental change.


To put it curtly, we need less laws, but more accurate legislation.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by KrazyJethro]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
The main problem I have with outlawing Lobbiests is it would in effect be the last nail in the coffin of freedom of speech. Even those I would beat like a dog on the street if I met them deserve their say in our form of Government.

The cure would be worse than the disease.


I thought about what you and Rant said about it being a freedom of speech issue - but is it?

The First Amendment is a protection afforded to citizens and not corporations. Maybe that is where change can be directed. Who do the tobacco companies or the pharaceutical industries represent - certaintly not the people, but their own business interests. What if lobbyists could be limited to those who represent actual people and forbid any lobbying on the part of business, corporation, partnership?



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys
I thought about what you and Rant said about it being a freedom of speech issue - but is it?
The First Amendment is a protection afforded to citizens and not corporations. Maybe that is where change can be directed. Who do the tobacco companies or the pharaceutical industries represent - certaintly not the people, but their own business interests. What if lobbyists could be limited to those who represent actual people and forbid any lobbying on the part of business, corporation, partnership?

First, the first amendment does offer protection to corporations, not directly, but because of the activist supreme court (check back to the 70s). Second, I realize the tobacco farmers and others who work in the tobacco industry have been demonized as evil individuals, and do not fit your definition of the people. But, do you really want the government deciding who the people really are.

Imagine a day after youve started your own business and you are talking to a congressman about issues that affect your industry. With your well intentioned laws you will be subject to legal action by a slick attorney for not representing the people. While people like slick willy will go into court and argue over the meaning of the word is.

Your well intentioned laws will only make the playing field more unfair.as the people who can afford justice under your system will be the moneyed interests.

Hmmm, kind of like now.George Soros has been free to spend what ever he likes and say whatever he wants to with no check..a small group of veterans starts doing the same thing and out come the lawyers.


[edit on 29-8-2004 by keholmes]



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