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why doesnt my con-trail last long in winter behind my car??--chem-trails are real

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posted on May, 23 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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I would like to ask a question if i may,
on the days where i can see the trails of planes making those strange paterns in the sky,
why is it that i can see the plane start to make a trail and i can also see it stop, just before
the plane doubles back for another pass




posted on May, 23 2011 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by mkkkay
 


What you are probably seeing is 2 planes flying in opposite directions - with one exiting the contail altitude just before the other enters the contrail altitude.

Alternatively yo might have been seeing the a/c flying a holding pattern - a racetrack shaped path that ATC requires it to fly in order to maintain seperation from another a/c or delay arrival at some point in space.

there's a brief description of this on wiki - en.wikipedia.org... and you will sometimes see contrails in this pattern - eg see this page: contrailscience.com...



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by mkkkay
 


What you are probably seeing is 2 planes flying in opposite directions - with one exiting the contail altitude just before the other enters the contrail altitude.

Alternatively yo might have been seeing the a/c flying a holding pattern - a racetrack shaped path that ATC requires it to fly in order to maintain seperation from another a/c or delay arrival at some point in space.

there's a brief description of this on wiki - en.wikipedia.org... and you will sometimes see contrails in this pattern - eg see this page: contrailscience.com...



No, one plane only, only strait lines.

On my back keeping my eyes on the plane can clearly see it start.. Stop..
And the same plane comes back starts the same routine back and forth
the same way a farmer would cover a field with only one plane.
the u shape, i have never seen before. but i have seen a lot of # and * shapes.
Still i can see how a farmer could spray his crops making a u patern.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


and you sit back and believe every government report you see....lol...I wish I was a con artist...I would sit back and become a million air here at ATS with all these trolls and dis-info agents here. I could sell them any type shilled government reports and build myself a mansion bigger than the one Bin Laden is living in today........why, o, why, did I have to be born a good person....because it's the Right thing to do.....



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by mkkkay

No, one plane only, only strait lines.

On my back keeping my eyes on the plane can clearly see it start.. Stop..
And the same plane comes back starts the same routine back and forth


are you talking about high altitudes?

If so then I think you are just mistaken. A plane is only a speck when it is at 30,000+ feet, and reliably tracking it using Mk 1 eyeball nearly impossible.


the u shape, i have never seen before. but i have seen a lot of # and * shapes.


so contrails blown sideways by high altitude winds and crossing paths of a/c going to and from different destinations......



the same way a farmer would cover a field with only one plane.


and


Still i can see how a farmer could spray his crops making a u patern.


Exactly - the plane has to turn at the end of the paddock - it will climb up 100m or so and do a wing-over turn to fly back along a reciprocal path offset 25m to one side - planes can't just stop and change direction on the spot.

but not really relevant...unless you were looking at a low altitude plane??



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Caji316
 


I have a question for you...

Do you support the OP in their claims in this thread?



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


And...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Explanation:

Edited to add the wiki (sigh
)

Particulates [wiki]


Particulates – also known as particulate matter (PM), fine particles, and soot – are tiny subdivisions of solid matter suspended in a gas or liquid. In contrast, aerosol refers to particles and/or liquid droplets and the gas together. Sources of particulate matter can be man made or natural. Air pollution and water pollution can take the form of solid particulate matter, or be dissolved.


Just so we all know TECHNICALLY what the OP is refering to!


Human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels in vehicles, power plants and various industrial processes also generate significant amounts of particulates. Coal combustion in developing countries is the primary method for heating homes and supplying energy. Averaged over the globe, anthropogenic aerosols—those made by human activities—currently account for about 10 percent of the total amount of aerosols in our atmosphere.[2] Increased levels of fine particles in the air are linked to health hazards such as heart disease, altered lung function and lung cancer.


So Humans generate this stuff in large numbers as a whole and its deadly!


The composition of aerosols and particles depends on their source. Wind-blown mineral dust [1] tends to be made of mineral oxides and other material blown from the Earth's crust; this particulate is light-absorbing. Sea salt [2] is considered the second-largest contributor in the global aerosol budget, and consists mainly of sodium chloride originated from sea spray; other constituents of atmospheric sea salt reflect the composition of sea water, and thus include magnesium, sulfate, calcium, potassium, etc. In addition, sea spray aerosols may contain organic compounds, which influence their chemistry. Sea salt does not absorb.[citation needed]


A source of aerosol sulfates which become important as seen below.


Secondary particles derive from the oxidation of primary gases such as sulfur and nitrogen oxides into sulfuric acid (liquid) and nitric acid (gaseous). The precursors for these aerosols—i.e. the gases from which they originate—may have an anthropogenic origin (from fossil fuel or coal combustion) and a natural biogenic origin. In the presence of ammonia, secondary aerosols often take the form of ammonium salts; i.e. ammonium sulfate and ammonium nitrate (both can be dry or in aqueous solution); in the absence of ammonia, secondary compounds take an acidic form as sulfuric acid (liquid aerosol droplets) and nitric acid (atmospheric gas). Secondary sulfate and nitrate aerosols are strong light-scatterers. [3] This is mainly because the presence of sulfate and nitrate causes the aerosols to increase to a size that scatters light effectively.


So Again humans are directly involved [knowingly or not as the case may be per individuals] and I'm quite sure that for a few days after 9/11 when all the planes were grounded over the USA the temperature rose by a few degrees due to the LACK of contrails!


Organic matter (OM) can be either primary or secondary, the latter part deriving from the oxidation of VOCs; organic material in the atmosphere may either be biogenic or anthropogenic. Organic matter influences the atmospheric radiation field by both scattering and absorption. Another important aerosol type is constitute of elemental carbon (EC, also known as black carbon, BC): this aerosol type includes strongly light-absorbing material and is thought to yield large positive radiative forcing. Organic matter and elemental carbon together constitute the carbonaceous fraction of aerosols.ii [4]


Remember that black smoke from the blown turbo vid I posted on page 1!


The chemical composition of the aerosol directly affects how it interacts with solar radiation. The chemical constituents within the aerosol change the overall refractive index. The refractive index will determine how much light is scattered and absorbed.

The composition of particulate matter that generally causes visual effects such as smog consists of sulphur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, mineral dust, organic matter, and elemental carbon also known as black carbon or soot. The particles are hydroscopic due to the presence of sulphur, and SO2 is converted to sulphate when high humidity and low temperatures are present. This causes the reduced visibility and yellow color.[5]


Wow... High humidity and low temperatures... sounds awfully like Contrails to me!



Sulfate aerosol Main article: stratospheric sulfur aerosols
Sulfate aerosol has two main effects, direct and indirect. The direct effect, via albedo, is to cool the planet: the IPCC's best estimate of the radiative forcing is -0.4 watts per square meter with a range of -0.2 to -0.8 W/m² [6] but there are substantial uncertainties. The effect varies strongly geographically, with most cooling believed to be at and downwind of major industrial centres. Modern climate models attempting to deal with the attribution of recent climate change need to include sulfate forcing, which appears to account (at least partly) for the slight drop in global temperature in the middle of the 20th century. The indirect effect (via the aerosol acting as cloud condensation nuclei, CCN, and thereby modifying the cloud properties -albedo and lifetime-) is more uncertain but is believed to be a cooling.


So aerosols can act as cloud condensation nuclie... modifying the cloud properties! Sounds like Chemtrails!


Black carbonBlack carbon (BC), or carbon black, or elemental carbon (EC), often called soot, is composed of pure carbon clusters, skeleton balls and buckyballs, and is one of the most important absorbing aerosol species in the atmosphere. It should be distinguished from organic carbon (OC): clustered or aggregated organic molecules on their own or permeating an EC buckyball. BC from fossil fuels is estimated by the IPCC in the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC, TAR, to contribute a global mean radiative forcing of +0.2 W/m² (was +0.1 W/m² in the Second Assessment Report of the IPCC, SAR), with a range +0.1 to +0.4 W/m²


Remember that black smoke from the blown turbo vid I posted on page 1! Well its having an effect!


Health effects
Air pollution measurement station in Emden, Germany
Particulate matter rupturing, blocking and/or passing through alveoli, leading to cancer, alzheimers, atherosclerosis and permanent declines in lung capacityThe large number of deaths and other health problems associated with particulate pollution was first demonstrated in the early 1970s [6] and has been reproduced many times since. PM pollution is estimated to cause 22,000-52,000 deaths per year in the United States (from 2000)[7] and 200,000 deaths per year in Europe.

The effects of inhaling particulate matter that have been widely studied in humans and animals now include asthma, lung cancer, cardiovascular issues, birth defects, and premature death. The size of the particle is a main determinant of where in the respiratory tract the particle will come to rest when inhaled. Because of their small size, particles on the order of ~10 micrometers or less (PM10) can penetrate the deepest part of the lungs such as the bronchioles or alveoli.[8] Larger particles are generally filtered in the nose and throat via cilia and mucus, but particulate matter smaller than about 10 micrometers, referred to as PM10, can settle in the bronchi and lungs and cause health problems. The 10 micrometer size does not represent a strict boundary between respirable and non-respirable particles, but has been agreed upon for monitoring of airborne particulate matter by most regulatory agencies. Similarly, particles smaller than 2.5 micrometers, PM2.5, tend to penetrate into the gas exchange regions of the lung, and very small particles (< 100 nanometers) may pass through the lungs to affect other organs. In particular, a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association indicates that PM2.5 leads to high plaque deposits in arteries, causing vascular inflammation and atherosclerosis — a hardening of the arteries that reduces elasticity, which can lead to heart attacks and other cardiovascular problems.[9] Researchers suggest that even short-term exposure at elevated concentrations could significantly contribute to heart disease. A study in The Lancet concluded that traffic exhaust is the single most serious preventable cause of heart attack in the general public, the cause of 7.4% of all attacks.[10]


So deadly car chemtrails! Thats what this thread is about!


Personal Disclosure: Wow nanoparticles eh... I could rave on about the dangers of grey goo!


Wow I have yet to add MKULTRA and the spraying of aerosols to affect mind control! Just to show "Yes TPTB will do anything to try and kill and or control you .... and me! ALL OF US!"


BRING IT ON! Because Language evolves and old outdated terms fall out of favour leaving the way open for new and improved terminology! Get over the semantics... look at the science! Deny Ignorance! :shk: :bnghd:

A Rose by any other name is but just as sweet! In this case its a Chemtrail and it stinks!


edit on 23-5-2011 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to add the link. soz me a




posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


yes the plane in question was high altitude, no i don't think i was mistaken.
I could clearly see the wing shape on the plane and never lost sight of it.

If it would of made a u shape turn then there would be no question
drunk pilot

P.S i'm 43 years old never have i seen this before the 90's the trails never lasted more
then a few seconds thats the way we could tell the difference between a plane and a jet.
the planes do not make trails but jets do.

Sorry! getting very sleepy need to go count some trails. Good night to all



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by iamhobo
 


First off; your avatar is....... ridiculous.

Secondly; that photo has nothing to do with contrails or chemtrails.



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by mkkkay
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

If it would of made a u shape turn then there would be no question
drunk pilot

P.S i'm 43 years old never have i seen this before the 90's


when did you start looking at them?


the trails never lasted more then a few seconds


I remember seing contrails virtually horizon to horizon in the 1960's and early 70's - and then they would still be there when the jet came back on the reverse run an hour or more later.


thats the way we could tell the difference between a plane and a jet.
the planes do not make trails but jets do.


You must be tired - I presume you mean piston engined aircraft and jet engined aircraft - because they are all "planes".



posted on May, 23 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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A Rose by any other name is but just as sweet! In this case its a Chemtrail and it stinks!



So what you are saying is that "chemtrails" are just normal contrails. But contrails contain pollution, so we should worry about them a bit.

No argument there.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


Explanation: St*rred! THIS! ^^^^^

Personal Disclosure: I wasn't arguing... OL was providing information!


Thanks for reading and eventually comprehending where I am 'simply' coming from! You put it perfectly but if I had just said that and not PROVED it the point would have been lost and I would have had to post all that info anyway!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


no OL wasn't providing information - everyone knows that contrails contain pollution - thaws more that pollution exists whether there are contrails or not!

OL was muddying the waters



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 


Um...okay.
Sorry but do you even know what you're talking about?



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 


WOW....there is so much wrong with what you just said that I don't even know where to begin......How about I just keep it simple. The MAIN reason there is difference between how long contrails last that come off of jets is because of AIR PRESSURE DIFFERENCES....you do realize that even if you climb up on a high mountain you need oxygen right? Thats because the air pressure is different.......contrails last longer in different temperatures and different AIR PRESSURES!!!........

On top of that....Contrails off of cars?! What the heck are you even talking about?!?! I've never seen that before in my life!!! Not even something resembling it that only lasts a second.....Jets create contrails basically the same way a fog machine creates fog on the land! You do realize that those work on the ground right?

Also......was your post a joke? I'm not being rude....I'm just honestly asking...sometime people attempt sarcasm and it doesn't come across well on here, so I thought it only fair to you that I ask.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Actually contrails are made of nothing more than water vapor...so unless you mean they are polluting the sky by covering up your view of the sunset, the same way that sound pollution covers up your enjoyment of the countryside then I beg to differ with you.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:15 AM
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What the hell is wrong with this site? Why are threads with only 2 flags getting to the front page?

Seriously, the "front page" is my main source of ATS material because I don't always have a lot of time to spend here and I look to the front page for "important" topics and threads. And this only has

2

flags. WTF?

By the way, the OP proves that you know nothing about anything.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 


Everyone knows that chem-trails are to help reduce global warming even though it increases it.
There is no question we are being chem-trailed. The real question is, what are we going to do about it?
Log into ATS and try to make people watch our youtube videos and fear monger them all to send a donation?
Or, get off your duffs and get out into the real world and do something about it.

I'm really tired of seeing all these tyrannical news stories and people in all these sites that allow comments, not just here, chime in like the gong show voting for the best BS story and pretending they have a clue whats going on.

Remember folks, this is the matrix and, what ever you were raised to believe is not true.

If they say buy my book or my DVD or come to my web site it's a scam people. Wake up geeze.




edit on 24-5-2011 by AwakeningAmerica because: Side Note: I LOVE ATS




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1
 


An interesting point OP, me and a buddy thought this the other week, the only possible reason could be for the altitude, but omy to work this morning across the chemtrailed sky, i saw 1 large plane leaving a huge chemtrail, alot larger than contrails & i saw 2 other planes in the air of similar size with not even contrails coming off ?

Unexplainable, unless the plane was creating the trail deliberately, which would make it a ..... *drum roll* CHEMTRAILER !



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by itsawild1


An interesting point OP, me and a buddy thought this the other week, the only possible reason could be for the altitude, but omy to work this morning across the chemtrailed sky, i saw 1 large plane leaving a huge chemtrail, alot larger than contrails & i saw 2 other planes in the air of similar size with not even contrails coming off ?

Unexplainable, unless the plane was creating the trail deliberately, which would make it a ..... *drum roll* CHEMTRAILER !


Or the planes were at different altitudes, subjected to different atmospheric conditions.

EDIT: To the OP, I wish I was paid to do this

edit on 5/24/2011 by banandar123 because: (no reason given)




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