why doesnt my con-trail last long in winter behind my car??--chem-trails are real

reply to post by NightGypsy


Oooops, my bad.....

They already are here........

reply to post by NightGypsy


Guess you've never been into the Chat Room?

Then, you have no idea about how things work, on ATS....

Re: the OP (sorry, got distracted).
Your car (and your neighbors') probably do leave contrails when conditions are right. But you probably know it as ice fog.

In high northern or southern latitudes, especially around urban areas Ice fog can form. Ice fog is any type of fog where the droplets freeze into very tiny crystals in midair. This type of fog forms when the air temperature is well below freezing, generally below zero, so that any vapor present almost immediately condenses. Vapor is added to the air by automobile exhaust, furnaces and industrial plant exhaust. Ice fog can be extremely dense, posing driving hazards and the fog can last all through the day and night.

starryskies.com...

reply to post by weedwhacker


Not to mention the live update window as well , they give us so many ways to be on top of new threads here..
www.abovetopsecret.com...
makes it so easy to help deny ignorance

reply to post by itsawild1


If you had to ask that question, then you will never understand the answer to it.

Believers in chemtrails == sub 80 iq

reply to post by weedwhacker


Explanation: You want proof! Ok HERE!....





Agricultural Aircraft [wiki]

An agricultural aircraft is an aircraft that has been built or converted for agricultural use - usually aerial application of pesticides (crop dusting) or fertilizer (aerial topdressing); in these roles they are referred to as "crop dusters" or "top dressers". Agricultural aircraft are also used for hydroseeding.

Aerial Apllication [wiki]

The aerial application industry is seemingly plagued with contradictory studies, some of which are negative and damaging and some are positive and show how the industry has evolved to become modern day environmental stewards. As with pesticide application in general, crop dusting is associated with a number of environmental concerns, including spray drift, soil contamination, water pollution, and occupational health concerns. Pesticide manufactures are continually evolving to address these concerns. In the infancy of the pesticide era little was known about the environmental impact of using pesticides. Over time it became evident that better chemical compounds and more focused stewardship on behalf of the applicator were going to have to be researched and implemented.

Crop dusting involving arsenic powders has been implicated in Bowen's disease.[3] However, lead arsenic has not been used by aerial applicators or in any other form of agriculture for three decades because of the adverse affects to human heath that were not as well known when the powder was legal. There has been an ongoing debate about the effects of consuming food that has been treated with pesticides. Often the consumers receive conflicting data on this topic and find themselves in the crossfire of politically and emotionally charged facts pertaining to the pros and cons of pesticides.

Personal Disclosure:

P.S. How much agricultural area is there? How often is it cropdusted etc?

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Ummmm....is this meant to be joke? Because, while I (and most of us will get it, even though it really isn't funny) it is likely to just add to the confusion of the "chem"-trail believers.....

And, do you understand why that would be?? And, what the difference is?

Because, else I don't see the point.

reply to post by weedwhacker


My guess is he doesn't, and most of his fellow believers won't either.
Sad but true.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Explanation: This is my point! Chemtrails exist in many forms!

Personal Disclosure: I'd like the conversation to move away from the exist or they don't becuase as I have shown they clearly do... on the ground...in the air.... I have also provided enough information to show that sometimes these EXHAUST PLUMES ..are good...sometimes bad! Can we focus on the bad exhaust plumes please!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


What you are providing is a smoke screen, if you pardon the pun.
You are deliberately mudding the waters , and trying to compare legitimate crop dusting
with high flying jets contrails, with intent of saying "if they are real, as shown in my crop dusting pictures", "then
why not high flying jets".
It's nonsense and you know it.

The op's title alone illustrates the complete IGNORANCE that keeps the "chemtrail" bs alive.

You guys do realize that by engaging in meaningful discussion with such a person you are wasting your time.....right?

But I predict many pages of folks trying to "educate" this misguided op...however your wasting your time. Without the meager high school science necessary to understand the points your making....well....what do you think you will accomplish?

EDIT: How can this not get a star from anybody that even reads this. Regardless of one's views on "chemtrails" this thread has nothing to do with them. The OP's logic is flawed by their own willful ignorance. I say willful because this is not hard to understand given the VAST resources of things such as the internet and libraries. To post such RUBBISH as the OP has without even TRYING to understand the BASIS of the very subject they are efforting to convince us of is RIDICULOUS. How can you guys honestly support or seriously discuss this past the first few replies? Come on, deny ignorance. It can't be eliminated here, as the OP doesn't have the ability to understand, GET IT? Please, help us all out here, give up your effort and let this thread die.

Star this post. And I don't give a crap about stars for my own purposes. But starring this post at least lets me know that, despite my poor ability to gently court the issue with platitudes, that there are at least a a fwe that would have preferred to reply that will say the same thing without being as condescending as I am....but please don't bother trying to "educate" anyone that believes in this crud, as they usually demonstrate the same level of scientific understanding, and the complete lack of reason and common sense. This is an open plea to those around here that have even half a brain, STAR THIS POST.

Heck, even if you believe in "chemtrails" this OP is not helping you any, in fact the OP is making you look like an absolute fool. You should star this post as well, if anything to tell other folks that their ignorance of science, logic, and common sense is hurting your efforts to convince us that "chemtrails" are real.

Have I made my point now? Do you chemtrailers understand my point? You may or may not be right, but foolishness like this thread makes you look like complete morons, and you know what, the next chemtrail thread will be looked at through that lens...and the next after that....and the next after that....

How hard is this to understand, am I the only on that understand public relations around here?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by OmegaLogos


en.wikipedia.org...

The term chemtrail [...] does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting. The term specifically refers to aerial trails allegedly caused by the systematic high-altitude release of chemical substances not found in ordinary contrails, resulting in the appearance of uncharacteristic sky tracks.

You can't just make words mean what you want them to mean.

reply to post by rigel4


Explanation: Im not arguing whether Chemtrails are legitimate or not ..or where they come from! I argue they EXIST! Thats half the battle! Once the silly semantics gets cast aside then I will refine my argument!

Personal Disclosure: But while some members still claim there are no chemtrials [whatsover is their implication] I will continue to throw the whole broadside of my above arguments at them!

And just because crop dusting is legitimate does not make it safe!

And just because we use and are mostly made up of water doesn't make it any less lethal and in fact I could argue it makes water even more lethal than anybody realizes!

I am not hiding anything here ... if anything its been me providing LOTS OF on topic information!

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Explanation: Im not arguing whether Chemtrails are legitimate or not ..or where they come from! I argue they EXIST! Thats half the battle! Once the silly semantics gets cast aside then I will refine my argument!

Why don't you simply state your argument, but without using the word "chemtrail" (as the definition seems to be a source of confusion).

That's should be very easy for you to do, and greatly help move the discussion forward.

reply to post by Uncinus


Explanation: I do try to. Here...

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

Explanation: This is my point! Chemtrails exist in many forms!

Personal Disclosure: I'd like the conversation to move away from the exist or they don't becuase as I have shown they clearly do... on the ground...in the air.... I have also provided enough information to show that sometimes these EXHAUST PLUMES ..are good...sometimes bad! Can we focus on the bad exhaust plumes please!

edit on 23-5-2011 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling.

Personal Disclosure: Contrails??? Chemtrails??? Exhaust Plumes!!!

reply to post by itsawild1


Why would you continue to start threads asking questions, then you get real answers, and you ignore them and jump back to your 2 year old temper tantrum of "disinfo agent! they are spraying us!"? You are the worst kind of conspiracy person. You think you know something, but you are proven false. Then you whine and cry about it and refuse to listen to logic and reason. And worst of all, you don't do anything about it. Crying that we will all be dead soon from breathing the "toxic chemicals", then you never mention your plight to get everyone to wear protective masks, or your idea to install clean air filters on homes to filter out the aluminum and barium. Go cry to someone who cares. do something or close the old pie hole.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


You don't get it. and I am done talking about it.
Nothing personal , but it's old and boring now.
Believe what you want, but it doesn't make chem-trails any more real.

chow

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
Explanation: I do try to. Here...

I don't get it. Your point is "can we focus on the bad exhaust plumes"?

How can you tell which exhaust plumes are bad? Surely they all contain the same chemicals?

You know I don't think anyone has actually made much effort to answer the OP question of why his car contrail doesn't persist.

Not that I think that it'll change his mind at all...but jsut for completeness....

so here's my attempt:

1/ The volume of air passing through your cars engine is miniscule compared to the amount a jet uses, and so is the amount of fuel. So it only generates a very small contrail. This contrail is easily dispersed by surface level wind.

This video puts it into perspective - at 3.53 there is a truck in the foreground making a contrail - see how wimpy it is compared to the C-130



2/ Supersaturation and nucleation - supersaturation is when air contains more moistuer than it "should" for the temperature and pressure. As I understand it this is usualy caused by it cooling down, but there being no nucleation sites in it for hte moisture to condense or freez onto. At ground level ther is ALWAYS plenty of dust or other aerosols for moistuer to nucleate - so there is never any supersaturation (AFAIK)

At high altitude it is supersaturation that "allows" a contrail to expand - the contrail ice crystals themselves are nucleation sites, so the contrail enables teh "extra moisture" in the air to condense out.